Video game industry will collapse in on itself when Gabe Newell dies, and enshittification creeps into Steam.
I shall seize one of his yachts (probably metaphorically) and sail under the Jolly Roger when enshittification comes for Steam. Until then, it’s a pretty solid solution for buying PC games.
Steam Deck is also amazing, in that it’s as simple as a Switch to get playing but open enough through desktop mode to do so much more. As your customer, thanks for not treating me like a paste eating delinquent.
What concerns me about the future of sailing is the sea monster known as denuvo, as there haven’t been a way to reliably hunt it down
there are three people on this ocean who can reliably hunt that beast.
- one is a transphobe
- the other is a trans
- and the other only cracks football games.
Not really looking good for the scene if only three people can crack it.
Something I’ve been worried about for some time. I mean, I hope his death isn’t soon, but we all know whoever steps in is most likely to royally fuck it up.
He just needs to make it an employee owned company. I believe it would make it a stable institution.
I actually have hope for the company after he is gone. All they have to do is keep steam going and they win. They just print money. There is no reason to go evil and sell the company and go public. They just win.
provided the can safeguard themselves from parasites that might try creeping in and try to change things for worse
This could be said for most companies I think. But the principle of enshitification applies regardless
Already moved on from Steam. Had 750 games there. Deleted the client and started GOG collection. No Galaxy client for me. No more cancer social media, achievements, friends… just Offline installers and the satisfaction that I actually own these games now.
Because he maintains a near monopoly.
He doesn’t tho. He just offers such a good service to people that they don’t want to use anything else. That’s not a monopoly.
and he maintains a near monopoly because Steam is just a great platform for gamers, as Gabe has said:
Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem.
and he’s right! i almost never pirate video games because of their price, i can wait for a sale, there’s a billion other games i can play in the meantime
when shit like Epic takes years to implement a shopping basket, and still have yet to recolour their payment page so it stops flashbanging gamers across the world, Steam doesn’t even need to try very hard to be the best. The biggest changes on Steam in the recent years are what - updating the UI aged ago? adding a points system so people can get silly profile decorations as an additional reward for buying a video game? Steam has created a platform so good all they need to do is sit back relax, and think of what other sprinkles colour to add to the
cakepie?Steam has competitors, but the difference is Steam is for gamers, and most of their competitors is for money
god help us all if that ever were to change, the second Steam enshittifies the internet will implode
Steam recently the added the ability to easily record gameplay footage. They are also updating the family sharing system (that feature alone would probably never come to other platforms). They also continue to improve gaming on Linux. I don’t remember how long it has been, but they massively updated the library with a lot of really useful features such as being able to select a friend and it’ll show what games you have in common so picking a game to play with a friend is a lot easier.
Further back we see the remote play together feature added to Steam; I was hesitant to use it for a long time but as long as you and the host have a decent internet connection it works pretty flawlessly.
Their custom control settings and community sharing of the different controller schemes is incredibly helpful with some games.
Their review system is pretty good and always helpful to me when exploring for new games I haven’t previously heard of. They have also seem to try to keep the reviews more legit and less spammy/meme-y and more relevant to the actual game itself.
They also implement rules to keep game pages on the store less spammy, they had a big overhaul on the rules around thumbnails for games to keep text off of them because developers started overloading them with advertisements for other games.
They have also recently announced allowing for refunds on season passes when the developers take too long or never deliver on their promises they sold you on. This of course should have always been the case, but at let they’re coming around. I also don’t know if any of the other platforms make it as easy to get a refund as Steam does, but that’s been around for a while now.
I believe there has also been a lot of work developing server side cheat detection so maybe one day we won’t have to rely on client side anti-cheats so much. I also believe they recently made a change to their rules where if a game has a kernel/root level anti cheat that they have to flag that on the store page for the game.
Steam (Valve) actually seem to care about games and the industry in general and want to see the environment around gaming improve.
From my current view point Steam is an actual platform everyone else are just store fronts that provide no additional value to the consumer. So yeah, pricing is rarely the issue when it comes to piracy and Steam really shows how true that statement can be.
Also, most people don’t realize that Steam doesn’t force games to use DRM, that’s purely up to the developers.
Edit: fixed some typos.
What monopoly ?
Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 dollars!
Steam has something like 75% of the PC market share based on a figure from the anti trust lawsuit.
Yeah but they aren’t doing anything to enforce that. They have market share because their product is good and everyone else’s equivalent product sucks nuts. That’s not a monopoly, that’s the free market at work.
No such thing as free-market buddy
Not a monopoly, Epic should be called out for that
Epic doesn’t have a monopoly either.
I think the term you’re looking for is “anti-competitive practices.”
Steam is already enshitified. Every other marketplace just sucks that much.
No it isn’t. I have yet to pay a single cent or subscription in more than a decade.
Are you trying to imply subscription fees are necessary for something to be called enshitified?
Well you haven’t given any practical examples of how you think Steam is enshittified, so you’ve left people to draw their own conclusions and definitions.
To me it just sounds like someone who’s trying to justify pirating indie games.
Nows a good time to articulate a defense. Because as far as their impact on gaming as a distributor, theyve enabled more than any other company by far
You view this as me saying it’s a bad platform. I don’t think it is. I love it and use it often. GoG is probably the only one that’s not enshitified.
You’ve still yet to actually say how steam is enshittified despite several comments asking. You reply but dodge the real question.
Dodge the question
Yeah, I’m not interested in getting interrogated over my opinions today. Especially by someone literally named “AngryMob”.
Edit: after they said “its entertaining how sensitive you got about this.” I now feel justified in my hesitancy.
Oh, I see. You’re just being a contrarian. 🙄
No, I just don’t see any point in adding nuance to my opinion when everyone is already shitting on me for it. Do you know how shitty it feels opening my inbox, excited to see folks to chat with, and it’s just people getting angry about stuff I said? Why would I want to add context? Just so everyone can shit on me more? No, I’m good.
Then don’t announce your random opinion into the void then?
If you’re going to stand on the street corner and shout about how the world is coming to an end, don’t be upset when people ask you to provide some evidence.
I’m not trying to suggest people shouldn’t be allowed to respond negatively to an opinion. But I’m also allowed to not want to engage. Any “evidence” I provide is just going to get shot down. Everyone’s mind is already made up on the topic. Steam can do no wrong, apparently. Despite the fact that I even said it’s the best and that I like it, everyone just wants to attack for me for having the gall to suggest it’s less than perfect.
It’s not like I hate it. The criticisms are minor. I just don’t want to get online and feel like I’m being interrogated. So no, I’m not going to “provide evidence.” There are hills I’m willing to actually willing to argue about, but this isn’t one. Life’s too fucking short to explain my minor criticisms with the best digital PC game store when we all know everyone is just going to respond with things Valve does that are good and act like that magically erases the bad. Everyone’s already been doing in this thread.
I experienced the same shit back with BG3 when the hype train was at critical levels. I’d talk about my frustrations that everyone said it was a “polished” game by talking about the bugs/UX difficulties I was experiencing. I’d get mocked to no end. Even then I’d always say the game is great and I’m loving it along every criticism. But people don’t care. It’s just tribalism. They see someone criticizing a thing they like and can’t handle it.
So no, I’m not going to explain why I view Steam as an enshitified platform. Because it’s pointless and I know everyone is already going to disagree and pile on even further. And it’s a minor criticism.
I swear, it’s like people are thinking I’m saying EGS is the bastion of Linux gaming or something because I said I have minor issues with Steam. It’s just exhausting.
GoG is more enshittified than Steam (which really isn’t enshittified). They spam emails now with random deals, like several emails a day with “(code for deal here) expires in 24 HOURS” and it’s always some random shitty game. Steam just send emails for when a wishlisted game goes on sale or releases, exactly what I want. But GoG has gone full unwanted spam with theirs, random games I’ve never seen before and no info about what game in the subject line so you have to open the mail to see. It’s so shitty.
I was referring more to the DRM, but yeah, that’s a fair point. I don’t use GoG much so it’s possible that’s why I haven’t seen this.
Any examples? AFAIK they improved a lot, especially in Linux space which I am very grateful for. I wouldn’t be using Linux if it wasn’t for steam. Although there are still a lot of things to complain about but if it wasn’t better before then it isn’t enshiftification by definition.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find a marketplace that isn’t enshitified in some way. Most are going to shove ads in your face which is shitty, but most people aren’t going to recognize it as a bad thing because they’re there to shop.
Right so no actual examples then?
And you can’t say advertising because of course there’s going to be adverts up for games sold on the platform. I think most people would argue that if you go into a store, and then see a sign in that store, for something that is sold in the store, that’s not advertising, that’s just signage.
The goal of advertising is to try to convince you that you want a product or a service. But if you are already in the store you’ve already made the decision that you want that product or service, so by definition you can’t be advertised to at that point.
Removed by mod
How is anybody supposed to be disagreeing with you you haven’t said anything yet.
I can see how you can say that about the Steam’s UI in some spots, but not Steam as a whole. They have a great business model, as far as video games are concerned.
They have some of the highest paid employees, and they keep prices low.
Just because Steam is objectively the best doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize them when it matters.
Sure. But what exactly are you criticizing? All you’ve really said is essentially “Steam sucks too” with no reasoning.
I agree, but I don’t think that backs the claim that it’s already enshittified.
Think the CEO of Costco did a similar move with the hot dogs
Close. The founder told the CEO if he raised the price on the hotdog “I will fucking kill you”.
So, who really gets the credit here is up to you.
The person who threatened to kill the CEO if the CEO fucked his customers, or the CEO who didn’t fuck his customers out of self-preservation?
They also bought 2 hotdog factories to minimize the loss.
Costco does pay decent as well.
Could they do better? Yes, but they are pretty decent for employees and consumers.
Oh come on, don’t be naïve. They bought two factories so they could switch from “hot dogs” to “mechanically-recovered animal-based byproducts” let’s be realistic
Aw man I thought they were still free range prairie dog peckers. Oh wait, they’ve always been cheap sausages.
You wouldn’t legally be allowed to call them sausage in the EU 😂
Frankfurters and Vienna sausages are the types of sausages used in hot dogs, both legal sausages in the EU.
My point is “with a legally mandated meat content in the EU” but the folks in this thread ate so much fucking slop they have no clue what they’re shovelling in their fat faces 😂
What do you think a sausage is? They have always been animals scraps ground up and put into animal intestines. That’s why people have been saying “you don’t want to see the sausage being made” for 200 years.
I’ve never heard anyone refer to a hotdog as a sausage in the states either and I even grew up poor
It’s more like everyone knows it’s a sausage. What else could it be? We don’t call them frankfurters either.
Do you really expect hot dog sausages to be made from premium meat? They use the scraps that can’t otherwise be used, same as chicken nuggets. This is a good thing. Those sausages and nuggets are perfectly fine to eat and we get to reduce waste.
Except hot dogs are cured meat which is terrible for you.
Hurts people some, hurts animals less. I’m ok with that. I am actively in love with hot dogs though for what that’s worth.
We all pick our poisons.
We’re you under the impression any hot dogs were ever anything other than mechanically-recovered animal-based byproducts?
That is literally what a hot dog has always been bud.
“they’re the same picture”
They bought the same hotdog factories that they were already buying hotdogs from. It was literally a one-to-one transition.
well to be fair, I’m not buying a hotdog for 1 USD and expect premium meat in that thing.
I mean, aren’t those the same thing?
What if the killer was the Costco founder? He told the United Healthcare CEO the same thing and then followed through.
So what your saying is, Costco’s founder and the shooter have a similar energy?
Costco also puts a maximum percent profit on items.
Really? That’s awesome.
Apparently they make more money from memberships than from sales margins, which are capped.
Last I heard, their profits were nearly entirely from memberships. This was probably five years ago though. I don’t know if their numbers have changed since.
I first heard about that like twenty years ago and apparently is still true today
Does anyone have a source for this?
I left reddit after the API fiasco and didn’t return, but I remembered seeing this on Data is Beautiful before that, so I just looked it up for you. (My search query in DDG was “data is beautiful reddit Costco profit margins” and a few popped up; this was the most recent.)
Transcription: infographic states
Net sales +$77.4B
Merch costs -$69.2BMembership fees +$1.5B
SG&A -$6.9B (Selling, General, and Administrative Expenses)
Taxes -$0.8BNet profit $2.2B (2% margin)
Source listed as: Costco Q4 FY 23 earnings
Edit: format failing :(
Great graphic, thanks
Thank you very much!
Also. I believe, he also said , if the workers think they need a union, we’ve failed as managers.
So. Yeah
I mean, it’s an understandable viewpoint.
It’s when union busting tactics are being brought in that things are problematic.
That’s because you view it entirely positively, instead of from the angle that he doesn’t want them to even know of the possibility.
I wish more companies had this mindset. If you treat your employees well and listen to their needs, they won’t need to unionize. When they do unionize, it means they don’t feel that they have been treated well and listened to.
It seems that the end result of this philosophy would be to treat your employees well!
If you have an employer that does the right thing, you should have a union that doesn’t need to do much. But you should still unionise, because it’s niave to think the company will always continue to behave that way. If anything, they naturally drift away from that state and it’s only a matter of time until it changes. The union is about having a level playing field with the company when you need it.
Unionize it’s not only about raising your working conditions. It’s about helping other to raise theirs. If you have better conditions you can tell other business owners that what the Union is asking, you already have it. One less point where they can grab themselves.
its an interesting difference in perspective for sure. here you join as a matter of course because you can push back against changes that are bad.
To be fair, he’s not really wrong, meaning that they’ve failed to take good enough care of their people, and my understanding is he didn’t stand in the way of one forming…
“I came to [Sinegal] once and I said, ‘Jim, we can’t sell this hot dog for a buck fifty. We are losing our rear ends,’” Jelinek recalled in a 2018 interview with 425 Business. “And he said, ‘If you raise the effing hot dog, I will kill you. Figure it out.’”
Out of curiosity, how is it legal for Sinegal to say that to Jelinek? Or it isn’t but no one cares to press charges?
I’m sure the guy can tell the difference between a genuine threat and a hyperbole.
Not all jurisdictions consider that kind of phrase illegal without an apparent attempt to carry it out.
Prob same reason you can say “choke me daddy” ‘OK’ in bed
CEO of Ben &Jerry’s. They are not just posting the black square on their insta and then moving on, like half their posts are about fighting inequity, encouraging people to vote for actual human rights, openly pro abortion, pro immigrant rights, pro black rights, pro women’s right, about fighting climate change etc. they are walking the walk, conservative dollars be damned
Also AFAIK they are one of the few companies that have been removed from the BDS list after improving behavior and leaving illegal Palestinian settlements. Recently they sued their parent company for silencing their statements on Palestinian rights.
I don’t love ever setting any people or corporations on a pedestal. Nevertheless this is reassuring behavior to see amidst all the Starbucks, AirBnB and Re/Maxes of the world.
Adding my vote of confidence to them
It’s a shame they don’t fully move to vegan ice cream
Edit: When the very base ingredient of their ice cream is based on exploitation and torture, how much are their initiatives really worth? It’s virtue signalling at its best
Plus I’m yet so see someone giving a valid reason as to why they shouldn’t. Just tell me you don’t care and I’ll move along
Why should they? I have no problem with people being vegan and I have no problem with vegan food being provided as an option but I don’t think vegans have the right to dictate to everyone else how they live their lives.
A. Ben & Jerry’s moving to exclusively vegan ice cream is in no way forcing people to live their lives a certain way. Recipes are not protected by copyright law so anyone can make and sell ice cream however they want.
B. The dairy industry wreaks havoc on the planet. It would benefit everyone if the dairy industry disappeared or at least shrank
It would be forcing people who prefer Ben & Jerry’s to either have vegan ice cream (which may not be their preference) or switch to another brand (which also may not be their preference). What you’re saying is that you want people to have fewer options.
Would it be accurate to rephrase your argument like this?
“Ben & Jerry’s changing all their recipes to use only vegan ingredients would be anti-freedom”
If you want to make an argument against that, you can do that in your head. You seem to be good at making up things you want other people to say, so you don’t need me for your imaginary argument.
You could just say “no.” I was curious how far your logic would go because you said, and I quote, “it would be forcing people who prefer Ben & Jerry’s to either have vegan ice cream or switch to another brand”
Like, dude, come on. You have to hear how ridiculous that sounds. Nobody is forcing anybody to eat ice cream. And also, though this is just coming from my experience, I’ve never met anyone who exclusively likes Ben & Jerry’s. Bad ice cream is almost always better than no ice cream so I would challenge you to find someone who would be upset about needing to eat ice cream that was created by any brand other than Ben & Jerry’s.
Humans are literally forcing animals to live and die by their life styles. The only ones forcing anybody here are humans.
There is no sound reason as to why B&J doesn’t fully move away from non-vegan ice cream. They’ve proven that they can produce vegan flavours, that they cost them the same (probably less even), that they taste well enough for them to remain among the flavours they offer. It’s just stigma and prejudice that leads to people shutting off completely when veganism is even mentioned.
Realistically, like be frank with yourself for a second and don’t resort to a kneejerk reaction: would you mind if your ice cream was vegan? It’s a luxury item, it’s a sweet, so it’s not essential. Most sweets you eat are vegan already. What’s one more? Plus, you end up helping a bunch of animals.
Okay but that’s something you care about.
What we’re talking about is finding the lowest common denominator of what can be considered acceptable by the general populace, It is not about becoming the best version of ourselves.
Let’s not muddy the waters by making this about something other than basic human decency.
That would be an absolute disaster.
Why?
vegan icecrean is apparently terrible… said no one ever
GabeN has been pretty cool.
Gabe has 6 yachts worth about $1 billion dollars. Not very cool at all, imho.
He didn’t kill anyone by denying them insurance or anything like that tho. Just took a commission on every game sold on Steam, a platform nobody’s forced to use.
And by running a casino that rakes in millions of dollars off kids. I can appreciate the positives he’s done with Steam, but I’m not about to ignore the negatives.
Yeah, he’s getting kids to play at a virtual casino that has absolutely no chance of returning and financial winnings, but he’s not taking millions of dollars off of kids. Considering those kids have the ability to own a gaming computer, I’m assuming the vast majority of that money comes from their parents. I don’t condone the kids gambling, but he’s not taking hard-earned money from kids that are in need and leaving them broke.
Can you explain? What cassino? Is it like a game with micro transactions or something?
Loot boxes are effectively gambling as there is no guarantee on what you’ll get. People in general can get addicted to the rush of getting that rare item the first time (which is usually what happens with a first open to get you hooked) and then either buy more loot boxes or the keys to open them.
Tbf knowing valve and looking at how their loot boxes work I don’t think they were malicious in their creation
Reminder that valves loot boxes interact with the community market, you can open a lot of boxes without spending a dime
Oh, I’m not shitting on Valve or anything. Just explaining how they could be called a casino.
Yeah this is something that everyone always seems to forget about this. If you get a lootbox in, say, Overwatch or Fortnite then you will pay out a fiver to open it or else it will never be opened. End of story, Blizz/Epic want their key money. *
You can open an infinite amount of Counter-Strike crates for free forever, by interacting with community marketplace. Unopened crates can be sold to other players. Steam Cards can be sold to other players. Good skins that you pull from your crates can be sold to other players sometimes at absurd prices that can finance another 200 crates. All without ever spending a dime of real money. Sure, Steam Cards and unopened crates may only sell for 5c apiece, but you get a steady stream of them for free just for playing the game, and that stream doesn’t dry up. It is perfectly feasible, if a little slow, to flip those into crate keys to loot your boxes.
And THAT’S the difference that makes me take notice. Sure, they still want you to shell out five bucks for crate keys, but an alternative path has been provided. And Steam makes money on marketplace transactions too, so they aren’t about to get rid of that option.
* I figure it should be noted here, that these are outdated. I went to double check myself as I remember this from Overwatch 1 and it would seem that neither OW2 nor Fortnite still use loot crates of that style. So to be honest I actually can’t think of any games that are still up and running that still use keys & crates in this way. The gamer outrage might have actually gotten us somewhere for once.
I sold all my hats and bought an Index. I’m so happy they can be resold.
Being a bit greedy =/= Killing millions of people through death panels
Huge difference
Nobody becomes a billionaire by being “a bit greedy”
One billion dollars is an insane amount of money.
Reminder, 1 billion dollars is:
- 1,000 millions
- 1 million thousands
- At the highest minimum wage in the world (Denmark @ USD$44,252/year), it would take just under 22,598 years to earn (11.2 Jesuses-ago)
- If a Dane earning min wage were to work 24 hrs/day non-stop, it would take them just under 4,977 years to earn (2.46 Jesuses-ago).
Billionaires have all that money even after their expenses. It’s their “savings account”, but their savings account makes much more interest than ours because they are actually invested in the market. If they need money beyond their regular pay, they use their investments as collateral for loans with interest rates lower than investment returns. They’re making money even if they are spending it.
Wealth is not money.
Point being?
They do in any advanced economy…
But steam don’t tax plebs like housing, health, and education does
A billion dollars is never “a bit greedy”. It is always a failure of the system to regulated exorbitant wealth through effective taxation and fair market economic policy.
Isn’t the Steam business model to charge less than everyone else though?
That seems like the exact opposite of greedy.
30%, same as apple, gog and… Well epic takes less then 15, microsoft takes even less, itch also takes less (unclear to me if 10% or set your own).
Anyway steam is only good for game makers because it is steam. Financially that is, because it is the biggest.
Edit: Itch default is 10%, but you can set it to 0% or even up to 100% if you want.
Well epic takes less then 15
But forces you to stick with the Epic platform for a year; bad for gamers, IMO.
Which is why I don’t use Epic. GoG and Steam all the way, baybee!
When did I compare those two things as being equally as bad? What the hell is with this black and white stance in my replies, absolutely wild to see people defending a man owning 1 billion dollars in yachts.
Im a huge steam fan.
I am not a fan of someone who can own multiple yachts.
Sorry GabeN.
Still seems like a nice guy. 🫡
This but with GabeN
Hawk’s response 😆👌
This CEO, Gabe Newell, and (if he was still alive) the founder of Little Caesars, who, if I recall correctly, secretly paid for Rosa Parks apartment until her death.
The founder of Little Caesars was a typical magnate developer who bought up much of downtown Detroit and let it rot until he received tax incentives to build, and kicked out many low income residents from apartments he let sit until they got city money. His family continues this tradition. The Rosa Parks thing is the only good thing I’ve ever heard of that man and his family do.
Add Steve Wozniak to the list of the ones to be protected. The Woz has done more to pull people up and we should all aspire to that level if we ever have the means.
Woz isn’t a CEO and was stabbed in the back so many times he makes the Ten of Swords look like a sign for future friendships
Woz is the true Tech Jesus
in terms of being betreayed? sure.
In terms of being the salvation and the light? Nah, that’s Linus
Linus is the drunken uncle of the tech backbone, let’s be real here. Woz is the supportive one after being in abusive relationship after abusive relationship.
After every instance of getting relatively screwed over (he still made bank, just not as much) he still founded and ran groups that focussed on pushing the envelope of tech or improving less advantaged youth into stem fields
Linus is the drunken uncle of the tech backbone, let’s be real here. Woz is the supportive one after being in abusive relationship after abusive relationship.
Woz is Bill Dautrive, Linus is Rusty Shackleford :P
Woz is the true Tech Jesus
No that would be Stallman. In so many ways, but most importantly by establishing the concept of free software and pushing hard for progressive values. Also by being unpopular with the masses.
You mean GNU/Stallman
He’s been on multiple board of directors and founded several orgs. While not a CEO, he’s certainly in the same sphere and must be protected.
Gabe Newell owns fleets of yachts and private jets. The man is using your sweet gaming money to burn the planet.
aww
Nah people need to stop jerking off Gabe and valve I general.
They started predatory lootboxes, ridiculously expensive cosmetics, early access, owning a licence instead of the actual game, had to be sued just to get refund policy and the vast vast majority of his wealth has come from just skimming a bit off from people who actually make games he distributes.
If you look at valve without the “omg steams sale XXXDDD”" mentality, then they are no better than ea or Activision.
Do you understand how much work goes into distributing terabytes of content around the world?
Valve give you AAA games. For free. No material restrictions on game-play or competitive advantage. They pay for the server hosting, anti-cheat and matchmaking.
The provide a storefront that anyone can sell their games on. And they don’t contract you into exclusivity periods like others do. Do you think it’s coincidence that they have, by far, the largest games store in the world?
They have supported games, for free, for over 10 years. You could have 10 years of world-class online gaming (CS:GO/2 or DOTA2) and have not spent a single penny, with no hit to your ability to play and win.
Sure, they’re not perfect, they are at their core a profit-driven company and they can do things that are not in the consumers best interest.
But to compare them to shitbags like EA and Activision/Blizzard is an incredible thing to do. And removes any weight from your argument.
Virtual Casino. More addictive than IRL ones. Insidiously pushed on kids. Predatory. As Fuck.
I knew comments like this would turn up. But it still saddens me that even Lemmy users, who ar in general much more cognizant of these things and less likely to get caught up in the circlejerk, can’t acknowledge that Gabe Newell isn’t your best freind, he is in fact just another money hungry corporate CEO.
You say comparing valve to say, blizzard is incredible, but the points you use to defend valve can also be made of them.
Is Overwatch 2 not free? With no pay 2 win features? Does Blizzard not pay for the server hosting anti cheat and matchmaking? Do they not also support there game for years? ( also I find that funny given the fact the TF2 community is going ballistic right now over the fact valve isn’t doing shit to support it against cheaters and bots)
Yes they provide a store front anyone can sell on. Including shitty asset flips, early access pump and dumps, predatory spyware etc. And are very reluctant to do litersly anything about it when those scams are called to attention.
And again, that storefront isn’t some altruistic endeavour Gabe took on out the kindness of his heart. No he’s made BILLIONS by exploiting the worl of others, just like every other billionaire. And if providing a basic service makes up for your predatory bullshit, well we might as well let literally every other CEO off the hook then right?
It’s not a bad in to admit you got sucked in my propaganda or marketing or just general Internet circlejerks, what is a bad thing is to vehemently refuse any introspection on your current beliefs and defend them to the death simply because they are what you currently believe. I really hope I can reach out to people on Lemmy and that you guys can actually take a step and try to look at things objectively instead of doubling down.
I knew comments like this would turn up. But it still saddens me that even Lemmy users, who ar in general much more cognizant of these things and less likely to get caught up in the circlejerk, can’t acknowledge that Gabe Newell isn’t your best freind, he is in fact just another money hungry corporate CEO.
I encourage you to point out where I did that. I think, you’ll find, I agree with you, for the most part.
You say comparing valve to say, blizzard is incredible, but the points you use to defend valve can also be made of them.
Is Overwatch 2 not free? With no pay 2 win features? Does Blizzard not pay for the server hosting anti cheat and matchmaking? Do they not also support there game for years? ( also I find that funny given the fact the TF2 community is going ballistic right now over the fact valve isn’t doing shit to support it against cheaters and bots)
Yes, one of the two companies you listed have one free-to-play game. If you want to focus on that and ignore the decades of anti-consumer, money-grubbing behavior, I don’t think I can help you.
Yes they provide a store front anyone can sell on. Including shitty asset flips, early access pump and dumps, predatory spyware etc. And are very reluctant to do litersly anything about it when those scams are called to attention.
Are you referring to Steam: Greenlight? Because, you know, they shut that down 8 years ago. Or, maybe you’re referring to the mod marketplace they tried to start, and then shut down because of the backlash. That was 9 years ago.
And again, that storefront isn’t some altruistic endeavour Gabe took on out the kindness of his heart. No he’s made BILLIONS by exploiting the worl of others, just like every other billionaire. And if providing a basic service makes up for your predatory bullshit, well we might as well let literally every other CEO off the hook then right?
Actually, Steam originated as an effort to block Microsoft’s plans to turn PC gaming into a walled garden, like the consoles are. Sure, Valve make money off it, but there IS a consumer-friendly reason for it to exist.
It’s not a bad in to admit you got sucked in my propaganda or marketing or just general Internet circlejerks, what is a bad thing is to vehemently refuse any introspection on your current beliefs and defend them to the death simply because they are what you currently believe. I really hope I can reach out to people on Lemmy and that you guys can actually take a step and try to look at things objectively instead of doubling down.
Try this yourself.
Your post has an arrogance to it that smacks of “I’m always right, agree with me or be wrong.”. I’m not saying it’s intentional, but it comes across pretty strongly.
Also, don’t pigeon-hole people who disagree you into GABEN4LYEF RIDE OR DIE fanatics, and we might just have a constructive conversation.one of the two companies you listed have one free-to-play game. If you want to focus on that and ignore the decades of anti-consumer, money-grubbing behavior, I don’t think I can help you.
That’s my point to you exactly. You’re ignoring all of valves anti-consumer bullshit because they made a video game you like.
Are you referring to Steam: Greenlight?
No, I’m just referring to the steam store itself, that just allows all that shit to this day.
Sure, Valve make money off it, but there IS a consumer-friendly reason for it to exist.
So what’s the “consumer friendly” reason they don’t let you actually own your games?
Try this yourself.
I did. I used to be on the “omg Gaben so cool! Steam sale take my money you XD” circlejerk too. Then one day I heard about his fleet of luxury mega-yatchs and that made me look at things properly, that he was again just another billionaire leaching off the work of others.
Also, don’t pigeon-hole people who disagree you into GABEN4LYEF RIDE OR DIE fanatics, and we might just have a constructive conversation.
I’m not. That’s what you are doing to yourself by just completely disregarding decades of anti-consumer bullshit because they made a couple games you like.
You’re just outright dismissing undeniable shitty behaviour from Valve for entirely superficial reasons, then when I show you you’re justifications can be used with other gaming companies that get hate, you dismiss that without reason too.
You will probably consider this over dramatic but this interaction has 100% genuinely killed my last remaining scrap of hope for humanity. If people on Lemmy who are generally both left wing and intelligent, can’t even acknowledge that billionaires that push anti-consumer bullshit are bad (even when they make a bideo game you like) then what hope is there of the general public understanding that? We’re truly never going to change anything and we’re just going to let the billionaires destroy us.
Thank you, goodnight.
Until you acknowledge that my position has nuance and is not diametrically opposed to yours, there is no reason to engage in debate.
You’ve repeatedly misrepresented my stance to make it an easy target for dismissal.
I asked you to point out where I made the claims you attributed to me, you did not.
I think you also need to give up the idea that everyone on a given platform will be as ‘enlightened’ as you are.
Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions. There is infinite room for microscopic differences. Straw-manning and pigeon-holing does nothing but annoy people and make you look boorish. Nobody wants to engage with that.
I will acknowledge that if and when you make a position with actual nuance. “You can’t compare Valce to Activision because valve makes free games” isn’t nuanced and is just ignorant.
I asked you to point out where I made the claims you attributed to me, you did not.
??? No you didn’t? I even just re read this whole thread. You literally never asked that???
I think you also need to give up the idea that everyone on a given platform will be as ‘enlightened’ as you are.
Clearly.
Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions.
Yep, some people have class consciousness and actually want to talk about the failures of capitalism and the atrocity of people having billions of dollars while others starve and live on the streets. And others want to defend those billionaires because they run a company that made a video game they liked 20 years ago.
Truth.
Valve been private company allows them to avoid some shortsighted decisions of public corps, but they’re no saints.
We need more stores, with an interstore protocol allowing you to move your licenses. EU get on that please
He also normalized hosting kid’s content and adult/gambling content on the same platform. Anyone who tried to open up a game store that also sold adult material would get crucified nowadays.
The reason Steam is praised so much is because unlike EA and Activision, regardless of what they try to push that they shouldn’t, they do put in the effort of going back and looking at issues from gamer’s eyes. Those cosmetics? They came about at a time when P2W was much more of a concern, and paying for something merely visual was considered much more acceptable. Early access? It came about from trying to open up development to more indies instead of just the big devs and publishers. Licensing instead of owning? The alternative were much more costly physical copies that also degraded with time and which you had to maintain a backup of yourself. If your local game store didn’t have it, you were screwed, and there could be no discounts. Porn on the platform? Don’t care, not a child and I’m responsible.
Even then, I still damn Valve on both normalizing licenses on a subscription service that were it not for its market dominance could easily be teetering right now along with most people’s game library’s, and for not bothering to make an adult/gambling only version of a game store. GOG needs a competitor (remember Devotion and now Nine Sols), and it has none. It is possible to make money and be a digital distribution service without being a subscription service. There should be far more distance between adult and predatory content and normal gaming content, not all parents are responsible and it more easily creates communities predators can target from overlapping interests.
Making the claim that adult content = predators preying on children has a couple issues:
- Predators are incredibly rare, and it has been repeatedly shown that these claims of predators-behind-every-account are blown out of proportion for political scare reasons (see Satanic Panic, all of human history for more examples).
- Even if the above weren’t true, why on earth would those people be spending their time on adult content instead of, say, roblox or minecraft? You know, games for children, that children play?
The debate over steam hosting adult content is some really regressive stuff. An alternative take, the one I hold, is “It’s really heartening to see a major content platform not giving in to the conservative moralists that view anime tiddies as somehow damaging to the fabric of society. Making sexuality a less shameful topic for discussion also, conveniently, reduces ‘shame’ as an effective lever for preying on children, and makes them more likely to come forward and tell people when they’re actually in danger”.
All it takes is another client, a lot of argument for not wanting to take one iota of minimal responsibility. Predators are not rare, they literally fuel television series regarding them. They don’t have to be many to be a threat, either, all it takes is a small number of very active ones. They do target children’s game, having adult content facilities introducing children to it as “lol lemme gift u / giv u dis CD key its so sik”. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/07/us/video-games-child-sex-abuse.html - What alternate reality do you live in?
The first sentence of that article lists Minecraft and Fortnite.
Neither of those games are available on Steam.
…
So, and stop me if this is too wild a conclusion, it maybe just might possibly be the case that having separate storefronts doesn’t actually have any impact on sexual predation of minors in videogames.(Edit: actually, none of the games listed in that article are available on steam. Did… did you even read it?)
You were the completely utter moron who said predators “are incredibly rare”, I was just disproving it. Now you are just moving the goalpost. Yeah, time to disconnect from pervs who are asking to handhold them through basic logic they don’t want to see when all they will do is try to troll on whatever minutiae they think they can focus on to move the goalpost again.
That’s not moving the goalpost, that’s keeping the goalpost on the original topic. “Is steam making online predation worse by not having two separate storefronts” - Answer: Clearly, no, since there are multiple storefronts and that has nothing to do with how children are exploited online.
But if you want to talk about the rarity of predators (I’m taking the numbers in the article here): 1500 reported cases / year of sextortion in the US and nation partners is pretty damn rare. Even assuming non-reporting rates are 500x the value given in that article, that’s still 750,000 victims among ~1,000,000,000 people, or a 0.00075% victim rate. You’re only twice as likely to have been victimized per year as you are to have been struck by lightning. I don’t… like, I don’t know what else to call that but rare.
(The above numbers are just about sextortion, a very broad category of crime and that which is the crime in question here. Broadly, “pressuring kids online to send naked photos of themselves”. This number doesn’t include physical abuse crimes, I did confirm that in their sources.)
Fine, kick the kids off. It’s better that way. Heaven forbid there be a place with both kinds of content. Imagine what would happen if bookstores or streaming services or years ago video rental places would do if they had all kinds of content. Oh and imagine that Steam had a filter to hide all that adult content wouldn’t that just be absolutely crazy?
Not everything has to be safe for kids. Kick them the fuck out if it’s an issue. Don’t dumb down the adults experience.
Your analogy falls flat the moment your realize that G rated movies are served right beside R or unrated movies.
And steam has a filter to hide all adult content, and it also askes for your birthday all the damn time regardless of your account settings.
The first half of my comment was dripping sarcasm. I think the puritanical pearl clutching about steam having both types of content is stupid as fuck.
But what about the people who’ve got the maturity and responsibility of one, such as yourself?
CEOs should just be elected by the employees
Couple of British examples of what should be the standard for modern business:
Julian Richer, founder of Richer Sounds (hifi store in the UK), seems like one of the better capitalists around. He signed over majority control of the company to an employee trust when he turned 60, donates 15% of their profit to charity, runs a nonprofit dedicated to exposing corporate tax avoidance, campaigns against zero hours contracts, and devotes company resources to promoting unsigned bands: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Richer
James Timpson recently stepped down as CEO of Timpson, another UK retailer that specialises in things like key cutting, shoe repairs, passport photos etc. He made it company policy to hire people who had been to prison and help them get back on their feet, and his campaign for prison reform saw him step down from the company to become Minister for Prisons in the current government. The company has a “Director of Happiness” who is paid to keep the front line staff happy, resulting in policies like getting the day off work on your kid’s first day of school, compassionate leave for the death of a pet, etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timpson_(retailer)
Timpsons apparently has really interesting business models.
A friend of mine has worked on a few of their conferences, and apparently it’s both fascinating and they come across as a genuinely wholesome business.It’s a franchise, but the franchisee (ie the shop) has complete control over what they sell and what services they provide (I dunno if there are any guard rails). So if they want to offer dry cleaning, they can. If they want to offer phone repairs, they can. If they want to only partially offer something, then they can rely on the Timpsons service network to provide the actual service (so dry cleaning without owning dry cleaning equipment).
https://www.timpson.co.uk/about-timpson
The management teams delegate authority but retain responsibility and we have only 2 rules:
- Look the part
- Put the money in the till
And apparently they look after their staff really well. Actually good/useful perks & benefits. In addition to the compassionate leave you’ve mentioned, I’m sure my friend said something about timpsons owning some property that they allow their staff to book for free (like free accomodation for holidays). Or maybe they do block bookings of stuff, or something. I wasn’t hugely paying attention tbh.
franchisee*
Editted
Plus their stores smell even better than petrol.
Is the CEO of costco still a decent guy?
Craig Jelinek the (CEO of costco until recently) was always considered a good guy for putting his employees first and concentrating on keeping a high bar for product quality.
Until recently? Did something happen recently to change this? (Genuine question, I’ve only heard good things about the Costco ceo)
Craig Jelinek, the CEO of costco until reecently, was considered
Fixed their sentence with commas for clarity
For actual clarity, Craig Jelinek stepped down in 2023. Ron Vachris is the current CEO. Not sure if there’s been any negative policy change since then though.
Goddamn churros are gone. Hot dog combo hasn’t changed price though so we good… For now.
The old co-founder’s threat still stands even with a new CEO.
For those that don’t know this lovely story, here’s an article about the threat.
This is about the time when in the UK they stopped allowing digital membership cards (on a phone app) and forced you to install the Costco app.
I am trying to remove as many apps as possible and until this change just carried my driving licence and a backup credit card in my phone case.
Forcing their own tracking app nearly made me cancel my membership.
Newman’s Own salad dressing. Privately owned and all profits go to charity.
Privately owned doesn’t mean anything. SpaceX, Twitter (I’m not calling it that), and Tyson are all privately owned.
Privately owned at least means they aren’t slaves to their quarterly reports. Every time a company goes public, they’re subject to the delusion of infinite growth in a finite system.
Really depends on the ownership structure. Backbiting private boards composed of kids and grandkids of founders that are just trying to claw as much out of their inheritance as possible are just as toxic. Coops are about the only thing I can respect.
So what? Private corporations are just as cruel.
Corporations are the problem, not their trading status.
I stand by my statement. I think you sped over the “at least” part of my comment.
In fairness SpaceX isn’t run by Musk, which is why it’s actually doing constructive things and not getting into culture war arguments every 15 minutes.
Same with their frozen pizzas? I had never bought one before, then saw they were on sale the other day and figured I’d try them. Think it was 4.99 a piece. (Bogo 9.99) The pepperoni and ricotta one wasnt bad. The sourdough wasn’t very decipherable, but better than many cheaper pizzas. The 5 cheese I can’t speak for… As I overcooked it. The timer went off and I checked it, said to myself the cheese could melt a bit more and closed the oven. Saw the bottle of strawberry wine I was making didn’t look like it was bleeding air properly next to the sink and decided I should slowly turn the cap to drain the pressure and let the fermentation continue. (Have gallons of strawberries I froze left over still from spring that I grew). Turned the lid a bit and it of course exploded so much worse than I expected. Ceiling, floor, cabinets and everything within 10 feet got hit. I went to the bathroom and took my shirt off washed myself, started cleaning up the mess and cleaning the ceiling, cabinets and finally the floor when I remembered, oh shit the pizza… Yeah. The cheese was melted by then… just a bit darker than intended
Seconding this, Paul Newman was probably the best person to ever come out of the state of Ohio.
He co-founded Newman’s Own, a food company which donates all post-tax profits and royalties to charity. As of May 2021, these donations totaled over US$570 million. Newman continued to found charitable organizations such as the SeriousFun Children’s Network in 1988 and the Safe Water Network in 2006.
(Pasted from his Wikipedia page)
And, sadly, no longer available in Canada for some reason :-(
Sam Reich of Dropout TV
All of them
at minimum wage
Make their pay and benefits the same as the lowest paying position in the entire company.
Simple and effective
I always forget that in America minimum wage is just a suggestion
That’s a weird take. Why don’t you explain in specifics.
Any CEO that champions OpenSource software is good enough to me
Exclusively open source? Otherwise, you’ll spare Zuckerberg too. Facebook has given us a bunch of really cool open source projects.
Facebook has given us a bunch of really cool open source projects.
did you mean honeypots?
I only know honeypots to be something used to bait out illegal activities, so I don’t know what you mean by that.
honeypot is an enticing … thing that you use to gain an advantage over someone. I’m implying the facebook open source stuff is bait and they harvest something from you, be it data, legitimacy or something else.
Oh, they use it to gain goodwill, attract talent, and get free labour. It’s no secret. Zuckerberg openly talks about this.
I wouldn’t call it bait though. They’re legitimately good projects, and you’re free to make use of them while giving nothing back.
Unless you have some evidence to say otherwise the open source projects don’t report back to Facebook servers so they don’t collect data on anyone.
It’s hosted on GitHub so if anything it collects data for Microsoft, and knowing Microsoft they don’t do anything coherent with the data.
I hate Facebook/meta but Zstandard is fucking nice.
Of course Exclusive & strongly-CopyLeft
… and actually gets their company to support it. My previous employer would only use FOSS when possible (good). But they refused to financially contribute to those projects (BOO!).
Any CEO that is willing to part with 50% or more of their wealth before they die and not to their family or close friends, should be good. No idea about names
Any CEO that is willing to part with 50% or more of their wealth before they die and not to their family or close friends, should be good.
And that includes their
totally above board charitable organizationmoney laundering and tax shelter organization masquerading as charity.
Bill Penzey would be safe in my book. Penzey’s spices are a fantastic product, but he’s an activist who very vocally supports equality, respect, and human dignity.
Shortly after the election I received a blanket from them with a very kind note. Apparently they had a promotion where you could submit the name and address of someone who is struggling and could use a hug. I have no idea who nominated me, but I’m so grateful. Penzey’s didn’t change any money for this, which is crazy to me.
I just went to the website and was my attention was first on the link “About Republicans”. An essay on the current fall of the Republican party and why they don’t believe in them anymore. I think they deserve some of my money.
You will be well rewarded with a quality product, too! It’s so good, even my MAGA mother in law is on their mailing list. If you enjoy the essay About Republicans, you’ll likely also love their emails. They have great sales, too. The weekend before the election they offered half off almost everything in their stores if you mentioned the promotion, and I got a free coffee mug, sticker, and sample product. They offered me two mugs because my partner came with me, but I didn’t want to be greedy.
An essay on the current fall of the Republican party
This has been going on since at least the 2000s and possibly earlier, that’s the point at which I started paying attention to US politics. It was even noted in the Newsroom which I think is circa 2012
I loved going into the Penzey’s near me. Just about every spice you could ever need, and my store had an entire section dedicated to different types of cinnamon from all around the world. The people that worked there were all super nice and helpful too, it was always a joy going in there. Unfortunately that location didn’t survive COVID 😢
Their emails are amazing. And the spices are very very good. I need to get some more of their vanilla. It was on sale, I think it might still be for today.
Also there’s sometimes pictures of pets in the emails.
