- cross-posted to:
- cars@gearhead.town
- cross-posted to:
- cars@gearhead.town
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I have to wonder: I Tesla is not treating their Swedish employees fairly, wouldn’t there be extremely progressive Swedish labor laws that would be violated? How could Tesla be taking advantage of its Swedish employees who voluntarily took the job? If Tesla somehow breached agreements or wasn’t meeting wage/benefit laws of the country, wouldn’t they be in court as a defendant or paying fines?
Identifying where’all this is coming from’ seems hard to do since there doesn’t seem to be clear and documented violations against employee rights, pay, benefits.
Were getting really tired of explaining how this works in Sweden. We dont do stuff like minimum wage-laws here. All such stuff is negotiated through the CBA. Thats why i CBA is just standard practice here, its also a floor, not a ceiling so if Tesla wants to there is no problem signing a CBA and then offer better benefits than the CBA stipulates.
So why did the employees go to work for Tesla if there was no CBA in place when they chose to hire on?
No company starts out with a CBA, it gets done later, and when enough members of the union want a CBA the union and the company in question will negotiate one. This is standard practice here for companies. And om not speaking of places with like one or two employees. Enough members have now asked for a CBA and IF Metall have tried for years to get one done.
Tesla will not win this fight.
How many Tesla Sweden employees, by %, have asked for a union? I ask because others here, who,are seemingly in favor of the idea, have stated that it doesn’t’t take a minimum number of employees. I.e., there’s conflicting opinions on that from people,who support the effort.
I ask because others here, seemingly in favor of the idea, have stated that it doesn’t take a minimum number of employees.
It doesn’t. It wouldn’t matter if it was 1% of employees or 99%, if any number of union members working at Tesla asked the Union for help to negotiate the CBA then the Union would have to step in and try to open negotiations. And that is what has happened.
The only reason there is conflicting opinions is that it is illegal to try to list who is in the union and who is on strike. This makes it really easy for Tesla to spread misinformation while the union really doesn’t give a shit. They know nothing will change from how the internet views this.
this is my christmas present this year. the swedish union has the balls to f with the richest man in the world. love it.
Ain’t no war like the class war
Musk hasn’t been the richest in a while. His Tesla stock lost too much value and he spent $40 billion on Twitter.
I found this video that presents the Swedish view.
The Swedish Tesla Union strike – everything you need to know
It’s in Swedish but has English subtitles.
I find it very interesting, it presents most of the same explanations of Swedish union culture many here have already attempted. What’s particularly interesting to me as an American is that the very things described as undeniably good and persuasive I find horrifying. The fundamental approach that it’s not law but you have to follow cultural tradition or be crushed.
I’ve been learning a lot about Sweden as a result of this. Suprisingly, or not so suprisingly since piling on Tesla is so popular, there is very little reporting on the Sweden part.
In 1995 Sweden did the same thing to Toys R Us.
In Sweden their culture dominates over law. What they call sympathy strikes such as the government owned postal system striking against a single targeted company, despite having no direct relationship, is illegal throughout most of the world.
The Swedish view is it’s not the government postal system striking, it’s the postal union striking against a single target. To me that’s simply a word game of no difference and would be illegal almost anywhere but Sweden.
Sweden says the union is voluntary but the entire country will come for you in mob rule if you don’t participate. Again, apparently legal in Sweden if nowhere else.
From the exchanges I’ve had, it seems the Swedish union culture effectively controls the government and is perfectly willing to drive Tesla out of the country to protect their union power base. Toys R Us eventually gave in to the Swedish mob extortion, I can speculate several possibilities as to Tesla but really I have no idea.
The Swedish view is it’s not the government postal system striking, it’s the postal union striking against a single target. To me that’s simply a word game of no difference
One is a decision taken by the management. The other is a decision taken by the workers, who choose to ignore their orders from the management.
That is a fundamental difference, not just a word game.
This has been explained to that user multiple times across multiple threads on this topic, and they refuse to learn.
“… and they refuse to learn*.*”
I believe the word you’re looking for is comply.
The irony of suggesting you’re being made to “comply” because the Swedes aren’t acting the way Americans have been told to.
Yet again you’ve reversed it. You are demanding that I accept your view with anything else a refusal to learn.
If tesla wants to play with workers like they do in the US of A, by all means they should be driven out. There is no space for corporate slavery in the future
Please explain how you perceive corporate slavery taking place.
He can’t. That was a silly take Thant can’t be backed up with any fact…
I will not wall of text you too much. But basically low end jobs are built in a way to make people as replaceable as possible. That is also the reason why capitalism in its current form needs a certain amount of unemployed people, otherwise it won’t work. Now you have low skilled people who are in desperate need of a job, because the US of A has no social security system what so ever. So the threat of unemployment and homelessness makes them ideal slaves. It’s even better than the slaves of old. Because back then you had to at least try and see to it that they don’t die. Nowadays it makes no difference what so ever, since you can easily pick up people who are right now out of a job.
Counter point, in jobs with low to zero unemployment you can see that the employee is payed and respected much better. In IT for example it’s pretty much impossible to not find a job, since there are more jobs than people who are at least somewhat adept at the job.
The only thing that you need to know is that the Swedish unions have destroyed the Swedish car manufacturers. Saab had to be sold off to GM who promptly killed it, and Volvo has been purchased by a Chinese company, who will also kill it, once their needs have been met.
I’m sure that was all because of unions and had absolutely nothing to do with the auto market consolidating into a few large groups over the past decades. How many independent small (non-luxury) car makers still exist in the world?
Yeah you don’t understand the system at all and need to read up more
In Sweden their culture dominates over law.
“I’ve been learning a lot about Sweden as a result of this.”
Well, I’m speechless.
Can anyone explain why they started striking in the first place?
They want handouts. It’s basically like all unions: A small group of usually old, poorly performing employees who hold the company hostage for more money. These guys aren’t even Tesla employees and they couldn’t care less about them.
^^
All unions? That’s…I’m not even sure what to call it :p Average age in our bargaining unit where I work is around 35.
Sir, you have just described upper management behavior.
No handouts, it’s about tesla signing minimum benefits which is salary, vacation, work hours and other basic benefits.
As of now tesla is not obligated by any cba to keep basic levels, if it is like tesla and those supporting claims that things are better than this deal then nothing will change for Tesla by signing.
How can it be about hand outs when they literally get nothing out of it? The union does not take any money from the company and workers does not need to join the union to be covered by the CBA.
The Swedish union IF Metall called the strike, not the Tesla employees, because IF Metall had been unsuccessful in voluntarily getting Tesla to participate.
If a company can be forced…. It’s not voluntary.
You’re right, thankfully they can’t be forced.
Pretty much…
Solidarity. Fuck IF Metall and their anti freedom bullshit. Tesla workers never asked for this strike. IF Metall is doing it in their own interests.
So what if the Tesla employees don’t want a union? Should it be forced on them?
No one is forcing them to be in a union
I mean this is effectively coercive no?
No.
Are you sure? Would;d any agreement signed by Tesla be able to be extended to other employees. I.e., a Trojan horse, so to speak?
Do we know for sure either way or is everyone just guessing?
Yes even people that aren’t in the union would be protected by the agreement. That’s why the agreement is written as a floor. If you have 40 days of vacation each year, an agreement that for example say that Tesla can’t change that to under 26 days is not bad for you. If you have 25 days/year now, the agreement would give you an extra day so that you have the minimum as every other worker in the sector.
However, you are still free to not join the union. So no fees for you but also no say in what the union do.
Stupid unions.
Funny how every single comment in this thread goes on and on about unions but nobody is asking why Tesla isn’t just signing the deal like every other car company operating in Sweden.
It’s not the unions singling out Tesla and try to be mean to Musk, it’s Musk trying to impose his right wing ideology on another country. It’s clearly not a financial question because according to you, Tesla workers are already paid as well or better than the rest, so nothing would change.
This sub needs a sort by stock portfolio option.
funny how everyone on Reddit thinks that Musk is right wing when he simply disagrees with their opinion. maybe “funny” is not the right word…
Openly supporting right wing candidates has that effect.
What the fuck does this have to do with right wing ideology,???
Uhm… everything
Being anti union is by definition right wing.
What’s super fun is talking to right wingers who are part of a union. Theirs is the only good one.
uh the right is extremely anti union, and musk is a rightwing nutjob? like how do you not know this
chill
I am just trying to understand why people insist on bringing in this stupid shit into every discussion. Not everything is politics and I am sick and tired of people and their idiotic rants about it.
Tesla made the mistake of doing business in Sweden before looking at their rules. Had they done so, they’d have noticed that their rules contradict tesla company policy. So now. They’ll have to figure it out. It has zero to do with left or right wing.
there’s a reason why a lot of CEO don’t like to talk much because it influences the consumers whether or not they should get their product…
imagine if apple starts attacking republicans every time all of a sudden…
Good question. People are projecting their ideology.
Standard for the Internet…
Solidarity. Fuck Tesla and their anti union bullshit.
90 percent of their own employees in Sweden are anti-union. Fuck them, right?
This site is like a parody.
Well, it seems like there’s no clarification coming in this thread about what actual Tesla employees are asking for a union so …. How about another Toyota Solid-stare Battery post? Those always get the juices going.
Its 130 employees who are both tesla employees and are unionized in IF Metal who are trying to enforce their will. So yes, its actual tesla sweeden employees who are striking.
Wait, are you arguing that a union shouldn’t cover wages if they can when members strike?
Amd they didnt give any sources… I guess the author flew to sweden himself and investigated…
It’s funny. A rich company owner can do whatever they want, primarily by wielding the power that comes with having oodles of excess money. They could decide to shut down a factory, change rules to make people’s lives hell, do all sorts of things that are clearly coercive or arbitrary and people will just shrug and say “It’s their money, and it’s not illegal.”
But the second a bunch of workers get together and decide to wield the very double edged sword of foregoing their meager wages, i.e. to exercise their right in a free market to work or not work, people come out of the woodwork to complain that it is destroying the economy, that it is thuggish, that it is collusion and the end of free society. I guess poor people getting screwed over is just part of the plan, when the rich are inconvenienced it’s suddenly a major problem that must be dealt with forcefully.
Solidarity with the workers!
Agreed, Tesla workers there by far don’t want a union.
I’m sure they want the minimum standards the union would provide. Asked for by the Tesla workers who are unionized and currently striking.
Zero understanding of how unions work ^
I understand they often work in their own (often criminal) interests, with no interest in what the majority of workers in a company actually want.
Case in point, the 2 consecutive UAW heads who are literally convicted criminals lol
I understand they often work in their own (often criminal) interests
Yeah totally not a right wing grifter
Not sure if those UAW heads convicted are right wing, maybe grifters.
Alright, dear confused Americans, please learn how unions work here before saying things like “what about the stock options??” “unions just want money lol” etc.
I’ll be happy to answer any questions, both as a former employee and now an employer negotiating with our industry’s union for a CBA here in Sweden.
I’ll be happy to answer any questions
aaaaand crickets…
They’re full of questions until someone offers to answer them.
Just asked, time zones are real!
I feel you. I admit, as an American, there is a sizeable number of people who respond out of emotion or ideology first… or only.
My preferred method is: Seek first to understand.
Alright, dear confused Americans
LMAO. We should start a Q&A for all the confused Europeans who confidently talk about America like they have a clue. Seems like a fair trade.
I’m all for that! In my case I’m usually double checking things with my American part of my family before I open my mouth
Stock options are great and all, but some may see guaranteed wages, pay raise intervals, vacation, overtime pay and other conditions ironed on in a CBA to be equally or more important.
Seems like this sub is worthless for Europeans. The topics and discussions were NA focused before but the voting really shows it, it’s a different kind of culture and therefore also not reproducible in our environment.
I apologize for the libertarian fundamentalist Americans on the sub. They are however, pervasive and bull headed.