Even the Wall Street Journal said this was the dumbest trade war in history.
Here are some numbers to consider.
The US sold $441 billion worth of goods and services to Canada in 2024.
Canada sold $482 billion worth of goods and services to the US in 2024.
The US has a populating of 334.9 million people.
Canada has a population of 40.1 million people.
Per capita, every American man, woman, and child spent $1,316.81 on Canadian goods and services.
Candians spent $12,019. 95 on American good and services.
Who isn’t pulling their weight in this trading relationship?
This isn’t about illegal immigration and it isn’t about the 20 lbs of fentanyl that tried to cross the border from Canada.
This is about the billionaire class raising taxes on the poor and raising prices for Americans.
On the topic of fentanyl, if I may be so bold as to ask, do that many Americans genuinely give a shit about any fentanyl coming across any of our borders? I suppose those who do drugs that are likely to be cut with fentanyl, but as an American whose drug use consists of at most alcohol and legal weed, fentanyl isn’t something I’m particularly worried about. I’m not saying it’s not destructive or dangerous, but it’s not something I ever feel worried about. Maybe I’m just too poor to be exposed to people who do the kind of drugs that get laced with fentanyl, or maybe I’m lacking more empathy than I realize, but while I’ve seen sad examples of people whose lives have been destroyed by opiates and fentanyl in news programs and documentaries, I also have a hard time not seeing the fear of Fentanyl as anything more than wealthy parents like Trump, who know their kids are doing cocaine or other drugs, worried that their kids (like Don Jr) will accidentally OD on some laced drugs, which again, maybe it’s an empathy problem on my part, but maybe if you aren’t smart enough to test your drugs maybe you shouldn’t be doing them. I don’t know, it just seems like dhe dumbest issue to tank the whole economy over (unless that was the goal all along, and you just want a boogeyman-scapegoat for an excuse). It’s not that I even really care about “the economy” that much either, but I do care about ordinary people being able to afford housing and food.
This is hurting the wealthy also since it jacks up costs on businesses. I wonder what the conversations he must be having with his donors must be. Maybe he is picking favored businesses.
Who isn’t pulling their weight in this trading relationship?
Not how that works. Even with a “trade deficit”, a trade relationship must have an element of bilaterality. You’re exchanging something for something. The exception would be when one side militarily has their boot on the other side, i.e., sweatshop/imperialist relations. Which the U.S./Canada relationship is not exactly a poster child of.
LeT’s StArT a TrAdE wAr WiTh OuR AlLiEs -my fucking countrymen, apparently
I hate this fucking timeline
Trump is so horrible he got Americans to side with the country putting retaliatory tariffs on them.
Also it should be pointed out that Trump essentially declared war on an ally because he wanted to seize Canadian land.
Any talk about drug trafficking is silly since the first thing Trump did was pardon one of the biggest drug traffickers in the world, Ross Ulbricht
All drugs should be legal
IMO they should be decriminalized for personal use, but having corporations selling hard drugs is a terrible idea
Wait, the Dread Pirate Roberts got pardoned? How does that fix anything???
Trump isn’t trying to fix things. He is trying to break it all and end up a dictator. He isn’t healthy so he wont live long enough to enjoy being a despot like putin. Trump honestly can’t see his own death. Few can. That narcissist will die with a surprised look on his face. His father lived a long time but he wasn’t a overweight coke head.
Fuck, I just looked it up. He lived to 93. If donvict lives that long, he has 15 more years…ack.
I don’t think daddy trump ate as much McDonald’s as he does.
I, for one, am happy he has been pardoned. His sentence was disproportionate.
It makes Trump more money.
How did it fix anything for the rest? Ha
He made a surprise appearance at the Libertarian National Convention.
The crowd were booing him, until he pledged to the audience that he’d commute Ulbricht’s sentence…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-speak-trade-war-1.7448805
looks like we get 30 days of reprieve.
We are actually seeing the us get destroyed by a mad king. Never let conservatives forget that they ushered in a man who intentionally tried to destroy their country.
Yes, yes, but “Daddy’s home, you guys! And he has his belt off! Yah-fucking-hoooooo! 'merica gunna be so gud noaw! Egg prices? What egg prices? Everything else is even more expensive, too, but we were for low prices before we were AGAINST them!”
This gives stupid people a real chubby, so we should all have to suffer for their stupid feels.
You could argue that in 2016, some conservatives voted based on promises of economic growth, job creation, or an ‘outsider’ shaking up the system. But at this point, it’s clear that a significant portion of the movement isn’t just tolerating the consequences—they’re actively embracing them.
Right-wing media outlets like Fox News are already preparing their audience for economic hardship, not by criticizing the policies causing it, but by framing it as a necessary sacrifice to achieve ideological goals—like restricting immigration. That tells us this isn’t about economic prosperity or stability; it’s about prioritizing certain cultural and political victories, even if it means making life harder for everyone.
This isn’t just one politician’s recklessness; it’s a broader shift in conservative politics. There’s a growing acceptance of government dysfunction, economic decline, and even authoritarian tactics—as long as it’s seen as benefiting their side. That’s what makes this moment different from 2016. It’s not just that a ‘mad king’ is at the helm; it’s that a large segment of his supporters and media ecosystem are celebrating the chaos, rather than trying to stop it.
I plan to never let conservatives forget that the Trumpflation starting up was created by Traitorapist Trump.
Not just the Conservatives; there’s always a cohort of Democrats willing to side with Republicans to make sure the worst ideas make it across the finish line.
Dema haven’t been “on our side” for decades. They’re too busy milking the corporate teat.
Oh, look, “both sides bad”, the reason we’re all here.
They are both bad and have a massive overlap. But yes one party is clearly better and at least tries to help however flawed it may be.
Still both Dems and Republicans are ruled by the elite and the interests of the oligarchy. That’s clear and part of the problem. Until we change how our elections work though it’s in everyone’s best interest to vote for the democratic party
Still both Dems and Republicans are ruled by the elite and the interests of the oligarchy.
Weird that the last 3 Dem presidents raised taxes on the wealthy and/or corporations. Didn’t know that the oligarchy was interested in that.
Worth noting that, AFAICT, they never restore the tax rate to what it was before the preceding Republican’s tax breaks. It’s always a huge step back and a half step forward.
Worth noting that, AFAICT, they never restore the tax rate to what it was before the preceding Republican’s tax breaks.
Biden unfortunately did not. But Obama restored the highest tax bracket back to what it was previously. Clinton actually went above and beyond that and made it higher that it was in 1987. But I want to see the top rate rolled back at least to the 1986 rate of 50% or even better the 1982 rate of 70%. Only then will I be satisfied the wealthy are paying their fair share of taxes.
https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/whole-ball-of-tax-historical-income-tax-rates
A lot of oligarchs are philanthropic or at least not sociopathic enough that they realize they should be paying more and they’re happy to do it. I think Warren Buffett is a popular example.
So, yes, I would say that some of the oligarchy is interested in that and making sure themselves and their peers are doing their fair share. At the very least, they are okay with it happening as there are other things the folks in their pockets can do for them in government.
It’s not black and white, like everything else there are shades of gray and we mustn’t make the mistake of believing the 1% who’ve captured (or maybe always have had …) the ear of our government are monolithic.
Actually, some are. Some of them are scared of pushing so much the pitchforks come out.
Not sure there is a change to elections that will help. Homo sapiens became the dominant species by a tendency toward small group loyalty. That will be exploitable as long after you and I are dead I figure. Our best hope is a benevolent AI takeover. How sad is that.
I think ranked choice voting would help a lot. Then we could vote 3rd party without doing the equivalent of lighting that vote on fire. Right now it just makes no sense to vote anything other than Dem or Repub when you’re voting. Just because enough voters are only voting one or the other regardless of policies and beliefs and we’re not convincing enough of those folks to change their vote.
I am sincerely on the robots side in the future robot war against humanity. May they take mercy on our souls and save us from ourselves.
I used to favor Ranked Choice voting, but someone on lemmy linked me this and I’m a STAR voting fan now.
Not that Ranked Choice voting isn’t a million times better then First-past-the-post voting.
Thank you for sharing, that’s some good info! Too bad in order to get voting reforms done the people who can do it would need to be okay with losing a more fair election.
All governments are ruled by those who stand out. They aren’t going to pay much heed to some guy who lives in a trailer or dirt farmer.
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With absolutely no respect, quit whining about Democrats. The are not the ones doing tariffs. They are not the ones revoking trans people’s passports. They are not the ones tossing all mention of gender down the memory hole. They are not the ones trying to amend the Constitution illegally via executive order. They’re not the ones allowing unconfirmed, unelected, unvetted, private citizens to take total control of the Treasury.
Apparently, the Democratic party’s biggest sin was not being evil enough, since that’s apparently what Trump elected.
The Dems ain’t coming to save us. It’s astounding to me that even in a forum like Lemmy, I’m still having to piece a to b to c for the madding crowd, and being downvoted for my efforts. Just look at the last 30 years.
What have Democrats accomplished, really? Just look at the last four years. Biden could have come out of the blocks on his day/week/month one just like Trump- with a slew of executive orders and tasked decisions already hitting the ground running. But instead he dawdled and pithered about, while Republicans and the SCOTUS went about laying their plans to systematically dismantle America. And every time we needed a quorum of Democrats to actually affect anything, they all scattered like cockroaches in the light. But when Republicans put forth a bill, rest assured there will always be a few opportunistic Dems willing to cross the aisle.
They’re Controlled Opposition. Sure, they may be the best (or only) option we have, but that does not and should not preclude us from viewing their “leadership” with highly critical lenses. Because at this point, they deserve all the criticism coming their way. They have been categorical losers for far too long, and this last election cycle should be catastrophic for Dem leaders, because their actions (or lack thereof) have facilitated a catastrophe for the world. A catastrophe that President Biden ushered in with the utmost decorum. They ain’t comin to save us.
They ain’t comin to save us.
If they don’t get enough votes they won’t have the power to save anybody. So its not up to them, its up to you and people like you. If an additional 1 out of every 15 people in Texas had voted Harris, then Traitorapist Trump would have lost the state of Texas. The one and only chance we have for a massive wave of progress would be for a massive wave of Dems to be elected to positions of power. When that happens, Dems will try to compete against each other to be seen as the most progressive.
Congrats Trump and his buddies, you managed to not only save Trudeau but made the nation rally behind him out of national pride and defense.
As an American, I’m rooting for Canada.
But this all feels very by design of Putin to fracture US alliances.
I’m so upset at my Canadian family members who supported Trump.
I got an uncle who was constantly saying he supports trump cause he’ll “run the country the country like a business” - i don’t think either trump or him actually understand business all that well.
I hope Canadian-European relations get stronger, and hopefully Canadian-American relations will be rebuilt once this fucker is gone
Does your uncle realize trump was able to bankrupt a casino? Where they can can almost literally print money. And not just one, but three of them. This man is literally one of the most inept businessmen I have ever seen.
3 casinos. Trump bankrupted 3 casinos.
But he looked smaaaat on the apprentice. That’s all the fucking morons who support him seem to remember about Trump.
He is incompetent, confused and weak. Just what Putin wanted.
Yep. Of course. And SO easily manipulated and too dumb to even realize it.
This is the most accurate statement. There’s a reason why Trump wants Greenland, Canada, and Panama. Russia also wants all these. Wants free reign to move their boats and military through these areas and to be able to use the Panama Canal again.
The more I see all the stuff going on here, the more I am coming to realize that the orange taintstainy is just a Putin muppet puppet.
Everything this man does seems to appease Russia.
That’s the fallacy that I thought was learned back with Ross Perot. You don’t run a country like a business. It’s a government.
I’m pretty sure that people who say they want to “run the country like a business” just think it sounds good but haven’t put 2 braincells worth of thought into it. Businesses exist to make money. Government exists to serve citizens.
Do you want firefighters showing up to your burning house and asking for a credit card before they put out the fire? Or maybe have the post office decide that it’s not profitable enough to service entire states? The whole idea is moronic.
And it’s dumb, because, in the end, where is all that profit supposed to go?
The answer obviously is, to improve the country and the quality of life of its citizens, so we’re back to square one anyway
I mean, America already charge their citizens for healthcare, so they’re not that far off from your hypothetical
Also the USPS is too busy delivering papers full of ads and junk mail, rather than investigating mail theft.
How was it learned and when. Where I can lear more? Wikipedia didn’t have any clear answers
It wasn’t learned. He was a 3rd party presidential candidate that ran on being a business man not a politician. He came in third.
I think “businessman” is a little misleading. Snake oil grifter is a closer description of how he ran.
We all know he’s a failed businessman. Who else can bankrupt a casino multiple times?
America just played their Trump card and they got themselves good and fucked.
I was talking about Ross Perot. He was a successful business man. I doubt he would have been a good president.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot_1992_presidential_campaign
The “run government like a business” crowd gets to me. I’d like to see business run like a government. Owned and controlled by the workers.
It’s one of the dumbest perspectives I’ve heard that continues to irk me. Why the fuck would you want something that’s supposed to do X to do Y instead?
he supports trump cause he’ll “run the country the country like a business”
THIS MOTHERFUCKER BANKRUPTED A CASINO.
People say they want him to run the country like a business, but that man bankrupted a money printing machine, probably because he was doing all kinds of illegal shit and didn’t actually run his business like a business. Why would he run a money printing country any different than his money printing business.
My dumbass uncle feels the same way as yours, and I have to bite my tongue so after to remind him that he and trump have something in common: they both embezzled from their company until it died.
3 casinos
He will run the country like he does all of his businesses; into the ground.
He even failed at running a casino. Except this time he will likely be burying thousands of Americans along with the country.
Do you tell him that Trump has filed for bankruptcy six times with his companies? What does that say about his business acumen? How often has your uncle filed for bankruptcy?
That doesn’t work. The hardcore Trump supporters think bankruptcy is a genius life hack to get out from having to repay debts.
They actually believe it’s smart to borrow money, hide them in other businesses and personal accounts, then declare bankruptcy to keep the money. To the rest of the world, that’s called “embezzlement.”
Don’t forget the inflate the value of your assets so you can borrow even more money, but declare them as a lesser value on your taxes.
Those kind of people generally answer that he bankrupted « because of Biden ».
My mum last night on text.
“We’ll see what shithead Trump retaliates with tomorrow. The only way to stop the maniac is with a bullet!”
“Have you noticed how shithead has not left the White House since he was sworn in?”
“Trudeau is doing a great job!” (Referring to the presser)
I’m glad I don’t have your family OP
Edit - for the kids out there my mum is 74. She’s a baby boomer. Some of them are good people. They are not well off. I told my parents with the tariffs coming if they find themselves struggling to let me know because I will help in any way I can.
“Have you noticed how shithead has not left the White House since he was sworn in?”
I guess she hasn’t noticed shithead was back on the golf course a week after he was sworn in.
Cut her some slack she’s 74 lol
I appreciate your mom. My old man is a crass Appalachian boomer and speaks in a similar tone and diction with respect to Trump.
His ancestors are weeping
Trump is now uniting Canadians like never before.
I’m up in the middle of nowhere Ontario in the north surrounded mostly by trees and lakes and not even remotely close to anything American … but yet I still have a few friends and family who love your dumb orange beanbag president.
I don’t understand the pull that this idiot has on people or the millionaires and billionaires that pour their money into him for some god forsaken reason.
It is actually perfectly simple.
Mr. Trump gives people easy answers to extremely complex problems, the fact that he is rich means that people just assume he is right about it.
People want easy answers that don’t blame them, Trump has perfected the style of of talking where he is ambiguous enough that people fill in the blanks themselves.
It is classic fascism speech.
“Run the country like a business” is the dumbest thing ever. If the government was run like a business they’d raise taxes because what business doesn’t want to increase revenue? There would also be an open door immigration policy, because what business turns away potential customers?
Personally I want the government run like a non-profit organization whose goal is to make my life better, but that’s just me.
i’m still waiting for an explanation on how running anything like a business is objectively a good thing.
I just hope Canada, Europe and Mexico unite and start working closely together. Fuck the USA under Musk (trump). Together we are strong. Much stronger than individually.
Feels bad to say but the USA haven’t been a reliable partner since the first time they elected Trump. Who knows what they’ll stand for in 4 years? A normal person or a complete lunatic that has already disassembled the legal structures few days after getting into office? Hard to know. Very unreliable and extremely concerning.
I cant believe americans are letting this happen while sitting by idly.
I can’t think of a single alliance in history that went from unbreakable to garbage within three weeks because of the whims of one person that should honestly be „dealt with“ before it’s too late.
Writing this as a German with rather conservative views.
I’m not rooting for anyone. This all hurts everyone. Trump is f’ing over the US though.
both Canadian and American retirement portfolios will suffer. i don’t know why anyone would root for such a thing at all
Trump started it, now is not the time to think how this is bad. You need to choose a side and act accordingly with countermeasures, which will likely escalate further.
how about not doing that instead
No I think a strong united response is necessary. We are in for hard times either way.
So say we all.
I honestly think Putin is too busy throwing millions of young citizens into his meat grinder to give a shit about the USA at this point.
You would be surprised what people have time to think about while browsing their phone on the throne.
If you think Ukraine consumes 100% of his thoughts then you are not giving puttin enough credit. He isn’t infamous because he is dumb, he is infamous because he is cunning, underhanded, and brutal in what he does.
Yes, it’s Putin who’s totally controlling trump and making him do tarrifs. After all, Putin leads hamas, putin did 9/11, putin killed millions in Iraq, Putin killed millions the middle east, Putin’s funding UAE and Israeli genocides against Sudan and Palestine How peaceful the world would be without Putin /s
mUH wHataBoUTiSm. I’m shocked this user is from .ml
Shocked, I tell you.
It’s not whataboutism. He’s pointing out the empire has been going far longer than anything having to do with Trump. I’m apparently not allowed to discuss anything else about that here though, because the mods know the absolute truth about all things and will decide what ideas are allowed to be spoken.
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Take your boot off my throat.
🤣🤣🤣
^ Now we’re sinking down from “reddit level” to “Facebook level”. Just “laugh reacts”.
Sometimes an emoji says it all. 😘
Yeah, and sometimes you’re just a bad person.
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How is this whataboutism? They only pointed out that the US has a long history of doing shitty things without being controlled by some foreign actor. It’s perfectly plausible that Trump is doing shitty things because he thinks he will personally gain something out of it, without anyone pulling his strings. He just doesn’t care if the rest of the country goes up in flames.
No he is dead on. The US has been shooting itself in the foot for decades in order to murder little brown kids.
The only way your argument makes any sense is if Russia ordered Biden to commit genocide and throw the election. The DNC decided to run a geriatric against Trump. They are no smarter or better than the Republicans.
The DNC decided to run a geriatric against Trump.
They didn’t decide shit. Only politicians decide whether they wish to run or not. The DNC literally does not have the power to chose who runs and who doesn’t. You know the DNC is not a person right? The DNC is literally made up of the primary delegates elected by the voters, who then choose a new executive committee every 4 years. Did you put yourself forward as a potential delegate? Stop blaming the DNC for the choices made by the voters.
More wHataBoUTiSm from another .ml account.
Again, just shocked. Tu quoque fallacy at its finest.
So you believe the Democrats corruption and incompetence is natural and AIPAC has nothing to do with it. But the Republicans corruption is POOTIN!
Meanwhile the first person Trump invites is Netanyahu.
If someone said the same things about Israel controlling the US as you are saying about Russia, ignoring that the links to Russia are far far smaller, you would call them an anti Semite.
I didn’t want to believe it, but .world and Reddit powermod user overlap must be real high. They all are like a hivemind of “making fun of tankie” aka the liberal version of “woke”
The mods are sure acting like reddit mods. They’re already the self-appointed arbiters of truth.
That too somewhat, but I ment more .world users, it’s the only place and the only type of users who actively fight on the wrong side and bring up Reddit arguments and the worst of reddit behaviour into Lemmy
Seeing the same. Not that many different users either, just really vocal.
I mean, at the very least, the man could take his dick out of the Ukraine.
Very peaceful. Putin’s a busy man, with his hands pulling a lot of strings.
Then the focus will be another, “world peace” to America to the west is when their elites can do whatever they could ever dream of at the cost of the entire earth, it’s people and animals exploited.
Putin now, then Palestinans, then Panama, then Canadians, the gays, dei, muslims, socialist, leftist, woke, so on and so forth until everyone is dead but America gets all the toys they could ever play with. Your nation and your propaganda is a joke. Putin is awful, but he’s undeniably done less damage in this entire years as leader of Russia than America in 2 terms
Your nation and your propaganda is a joke. Putin is awful, but he’s undeniably done less damage in this entire years as leader of Russia than America in 2 terms
I’m pretty sure that millions of Ukrainian victims of Russian imperialism would say that your propaganda is a joke.
Millions of Ukrainians victims??? You mean soldiers? Can you provide source of millions of innocent civilians dying in ukraine or vice versa in Russia? No, but it IS happening in the hundred of thousands in Sudan and Palestine. Your bs propaganda aside, Russia is trying to exterminate Ukrainians, they see Ukrainians as their own people (for better or for worse).
So again, who are these millions of Ukrainians victims? Who are they compared to the hundreds of millions if not low billions of victims to the American/western regime. 1 million sounds like a lot until you compare to close to 1 billion victims
You mean soldiers?
Their entire population.
Can you provide source of millions of innocent civilians dying in ukraine or vice versa in Russia? No,
Did you imagine me saying “No”??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL…
The entire world knows about this stuff. You are unbelievably ignorant. Why would anyone listen to you about anything?
10 Torture Sites in 1 Town: Russia Sowed Pain, Fear in Izium
Ukraine: Rape and torture by Russian forces continuing, rights experts report
Ukraine conflict: ‘Russian soldiers raped me and killed my husband’
Rape has become a weapon in Ukraine. Finding justice may be difficult
Where’s the million lmfao 😅
Did you imagine me saying “No”??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You already messed up saying millions of civilians
How the average Russian life expectancy gone in the last 20 years?
Way
d
o
w
n
You mean Americas 79 to Russia’s 73? Is that what you’re whining about? If Russia is
W
A
Y
D O W N
What does that say for the shitstain named america? You aren’t Europe, you’re a bougie third world nation who spends first world money on defence
Effort = 0
See the teacher after class child.
Ahh, nothing to say about life expectancy after I gave you the number?
See the teacher after class
Is this a common request you’re getting on your report card little guy, gotta stop using chatgpt and lock in
They should have made it 26%. Trump wouldn’t be able to resist upping it to 27%, and they could just spend a day reaching the logical, yet stupid, conclusion to this mess.
Infinite % tariffs?
I bought an impossible burger abroad and now I’m bankrupt… forever
That is amazing idea
As a Canadian, I’ve already seen my nearest grocery store put up labels on shelves like “made in Canada” and aside from pricing it is gonna make it easier to avoid American products
Haha gotta love it
Well, that was fast.
How does anyone know which alcohol is from Canada?
American here.
Don’t counter with tarrifs. Counter with embargoes. Trump loaded you a gun and handed it to you. Pull the fucking trigger already.
Counter by decriminalizing everything to do with violations of US intellectual property. Ignore all US patents. Let Canadian drug companies make pharmaceuticals without having to pay for a US license. Let repair shops disable the DRM systems that prevent HP printers from accepting any old generic ink. Let Canadian broadcasters show US movies and TV shows without kicking back money to Hollywood. Let Canadian farmers repair their tractors without first kicking back money to John Deere. Allow anybody who wants to to jailbreak iPhones, and sell kits that allow other people to do that. Free Canadians from having to kick 30% of every purchase back to Apple in California.
That was Cory Doctorow’s recent take on it too. Trump just threw out the trade agreement with Canada and Mexico he was so proud to say was his accomplishment, after renegotiating NAFTA. They really should say fine, stew in your own mess. Ignore patents, crank out cheap pharmaceuticals, forget about DRM. Nationalize US factories on their soil. Will hurt for a while until new trade is established, but there is the whole rest of the planet to trade with.
Nationalize US factories on their soil
This is extreme and could warrant an invasion from the US. Wars have been fought for less. Look at what happened to Guatemala when they wanted to take back some of the half off their farmland owned by Chiquita.
Canada is a mid-sized power but not really in a position to flaunt US power like that
Canada is part of Nato. Isn’t trump going to leave Nato? So that would mean all of Nato would be on Canada’s side. That is one hell of a leg to stand on.
Nato doesn’t have the navy to help Canada in a fight. Assuming America isn’t torn apart by a civil war as factions of the military defects and there’s a revolution in the streets. (60/40 at that point. Fighting a century old ally is a red line that would absolutley cause a civil war)
the US navy would chuckle as the french and british and other relevant navies lie at the bottom of the atlantic. And at that point, Russia moves in and Europe is in a land war while the US decides to partner with Russia.
I dunno, Invasion requires a ground war. If the US attacked thier ships, they can just essentially blockade the US at ports of entry. The US can’t invade all points of entry and ensure safe passage. One shoulder mounted missle can take care of that. The US just can’t win that exchange. It takes 100x the force to secure than to disrupt. And in general the Uzs doesn’t have the troops to protect all it’s assets overseas. Nato would cripple us in a week.
this conversation was specifically about the US turning aggressive against Canada. the US turning on its allies and getting its global presence destroyed is one thing (I dont think that would happen, either). But to be clear, in this scenario we are talking about, If the US went aggressive against Canada, there is absolutely nothing NATO can do to help Canada except fingerwag, or nuke America.
And if Nuclear weapons were threatened, you could bet your ass the Mouth Foaming Z-Nazi party in Russia would rush to the aid of America, and declare that they were ready to invade and launch on the “Insane Europeans” to help the “Americans we have no problem with”
Russia wants to be hegemon of Eurasia, or at the very least Europe. If America wants to sacrifice it’s world influence and power to set up some kafkaesque one state entity across north America, Russia is more than happy to let them have it as long as they get their peice of the pie.
Britain and France also have thermonuclear weapons. Britain has Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarines and France has Triomphant class ballistic missile submarines, and both have nuclear capable fighters and bombers. If Europe is to fall - let the whole world fall with it.
As an American, I will join the war on Canada’s side if my country decides to invade.
I know, it’s a nuclear option. Seriously shouldn’t put that card down right off. And yeah, hasn’t gone well for any central or south american government that the US has destabilized or overthrown due to some large corporation’s interests. But as all this garbage escalates, bringing up the possibility could make owners and shareholders squirm a bit. It hurts them financially, the only thing that would make them care. People who Trump might (might, small chance) listen to. But before that point? Those companies can produce all kinds of things. Doesn’t mean Canada or Mexico have to let those goods go out across their borders. Their trade agreement has been torn up by Trump again. And you know that bureaucracy is complicated, things get held up in customs sometimes, occasionally for very very long times. Paperwork gets lost… When companies here in the US are screaming about their supply lines breaking down again, now because of HIS stupid tariff war, there will be some negative political fallout. Trump’s ego and image are vulnerable things despite all the bluster. He won’t back down, but he could pivot to something else and let this nonsense drop.
Canada should make nuclear weapons. Such is life in the shitter multiverse. I’d want my commune to have nukes to. Humans are psychotic hairless monkeys and are untrustworthy.
This is an insane hypothetical but the worst thing is I can totally see Trump declaring a “military intervention into the Canadian comunist takeover of US interests and property” or something like that
the rest of the world is too chicken shit. there is no rest of the world to trade with as the us cries to everyone that they need to embargo nation X.
Counter by giving Luigi Mangione diplomatic immunity.
And that’s how you end up with a US military invasion.
I’m pretty sure that the margins are slim enough in the house and senate that if Trump suggested military action against Canada, that his wings would be clipped.
Sounds like heaven to me
I wish this comment (merc’s comment) would get bumped to the top of every post related to the tariffs. Tit for tat tariffs is stupid with predictable results. Strategic tariffs and other targeted mean of retaliation are better. Why is there only a 10% tariff on oil? Because the US needs Canada’s oil. You fuck with our economy we fuck with the resources we give you at a discounted rate. Look at CUSMA (hehe. or NAFTA or whatever broken trade agreement that was) and target the industries that the (US) wanted to protect.
And for people using the tired fight analogies - just because someone tries to punch you in the face doesn’t mean you punch them back in the face. You have already been training to kick them in the fucking balls.
Tit for tat tariffs is just political posturing for weak leadership.
Also, this is a fight against a much bigger opponent. Not only is the US population 10x bigger and their economy more than 10x bigger, that size means they have a lot more trade partners, whereas Canada is pretty isolated and trades mostly with the US.
If you’re up against a much stronger opponent in a life-or-death fight, you don’t fight fair.
STOP!! I can only get so errect!!
We’re doing both. Both BC and Ontario are cutting off American Booze. That’s gonna hurt American company’s hard.
My hope if Trump keeps it up we cut off the power, and better yet the gas. Although that might make him try to invade or something.
Up next will be him calling Canadians Nazis and trying to annex Quebec.
My hope if Trump keeps it up we cut off the power, and better yet the gas. Although that might make him try to invade or something.
I think US history is clear. Mess with the US oil supply and you get the smoke.
I think US history is clear. Invade Canada and your capital gets the smoke.
Touché. I concede on this point. Let the Americans fear Canada burning down the capital again.
Let them remember why the Geneva Convention exists.
And it burned burned burned. I’ll bet that made them mad!
I get what you’re saying, but the US being Canada’s biggest trading partner would absolutely destroy Canadian economy right together with the US economy
The Canadian economy will be ruined by any kind of half-measures.
Don’t negotiate with a fascist state. Cut them off, recall ambassadors, and cease all joint military operations.
Trump will never do anything to benefit Canada, so why give him an ounce of cooperation?
Because we still need our own economy?
If Canada 100% stops trading with the US it will wreck havoc on the economy. Sure, it’ll hurt the US too, and yes, it’s a fascist state at this point, but you still gotta live, eat, etc…
Brother, your economy is getting gigafucked by Trump either way.
You can slow-roll it, with the impact lasting decades, or the world can sign up for one shitty month that will result in Trump being neutered by Congressional Republicans who are terrified of 2026.
Oh sure, I’d love to watch the entire world rallying together against trump.
I’m just saying that you still have a country with people that need food on the table. That “shitty month” you’re talking about can and probably will mean the literal end for countless people and entire families.
This is not a game with only 10 factors, it’s real life with thousands upon thousands of factors. It’s not that easy.
the world has too many right wing govs currently to handle any fallout form such efforts. they no doubt don’t see benefits; they just have no idea how to actually govern and are just in it for the cash.
Brother, your economy is getting gigafucked by Trump either way.
If someone shoots at you, you don’t shoot yourself in the foot to spite them. Canada is reliant on US trade. Cutting it off entirely would cause a serious economic shockwave that’s hard to understate.
The foot has already been shot, and trying to save it will end up costing the rest of the leg at best.
Amputate the fucker to save the leg.
Our only reliable allies. Europeans and the Pacific Partners like Australia, NZ, Japan and South Korea… are all oceans away. The US has by overwhelming force, the largest navy in the world. Only China, who we don’t want to dive into the arms of and become a puppet of, even remotely stands a chance.
Our allies aren’t going to rush to our aid in a worst case scenario, because they can’t get across the atlantic. and they’re also preoccupied with more or less being de-facto at war with the Russian Federation right now. and they are still not taking it seriously that they may have to fight for real over there.
When you start doing things like you’re suggesting. That is absolutely going to be seen as a hostile act by the US, and they will manufacture consent for war.
The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan and fucking lost. We’re good at sinking carriers and blowing up tanks, but absolutely horrible at occupying territory.
The kind of war the US is good at is the only kind that I want it to be good at. That is: disabling other war machines.
The US spent 20 years in Afghanistan and fucking lost.
20 years is actually a long time to occupy something. We outlasted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan by 12 years. And Afghanistan was right next to the USSR. But for us it is on the other side of the world.
It was a long occupation because it was a failure. Sucessful occupations stop being occupations within a few years.
You know what’s frustrating in all that? Is that our leaders won’t do jack shit to diversify the economy.
Nothing has changed much during COVID and nothing will change now.
People will suffer and nothing will change.
Countries trade with the countries closest to them because the realities of logistics overpower politics or whatever ideals people might have. There are a few exceptions of course. Cuba doesn’t do a lot of trade with the countries closest to them. But they aren’t doing that well. The UK had an idea about diversifying their trade to be more about trade with non-european countries, but that didn’t go well either.
Geography is a bitch. You can’t physically move a country to another part of the globe, you have to deal with the countries near to you whether you like it or not.
Absolutely, and we’ll have to deal with US until Pangaea, but what I’m frustrated about is that COVID and the first Trump presidency should have been a wake up call and try to find solutions to make Canada more resilient to the US market.
But it has been status quo and our quality of life has been left to degrade with nothing to show for it.
So our politicians will slap counter tariffs, change jack shit and pat themselves on the back.
We are a big fucking country with a lot of resources but it seems like each province would rather trade with the US than with other provinces.
Get ready, middle class, for our glorious new era of Trumpflation.
Keep checking the Orange Clown into the boards! When will the Nordiques return to Quebec?
The Trump administration says it put the tariffs in place to force China, Mexico and Canada to stop the spread and manufacturing of fentanyl, in addition to pressuring Canada and Mexico to limit any illegal immigration into the United States.
Can anyone else see any actual logic to this? Do the Trump Republicans really believe this, or are they just saying it? What do they really want to achieve, apart from Trump being able to see himself as a tough guy?
There’s no logic to it at all. It’s absolutely not about that.
Almost no fentanyl is getting into the US from Canada. A vanishingly small amount of illegal immigration occurs through the Canadian border.
It’s just fascism and imperialism.
The majority of fentanyl being smuggled into America is being smuggled in by American citizens. It’s not like cocaine or cannabis. You can smuggle a huge amount of fentanyl in a tiny bottle. Why risk sending it with an undocumented person?
One would think there would be some talk about precursors… But nope just tax it 25 % that will be sure to get producers to stop. Pure idiocy
Saw a policy expert say it’s a mixture of 3 things really:
- Trump likes to blame outsiders for problems and this is well received by his loyal base and gives off strongman vibes
- long term plan to switch from income tax (scales the more you earn) to consumption taxes (the poorer you are the more you pay for for consumption, relatively speaking) which benefits the rich at the expense of the poor. this wealth transfer is easier to sell when the populace is focused on outsiders
- Trump doesn’t understand basic economics
source: https://youtu.be/2I1L1fXaYDs
They absolutely want to implement a national sales tax. They’ve been talking about it for a very long time and now they have the power to do it. And it’s very much a “fuck the poor” policy.
Or they are just thinking of a quick cash grab … gut the system and get as much wealth out of everything and everyone as fast and as much as possible … let it all crash then abandon everything with all their money and let someone else fix everything.
I think in that scenario it’s more likely that they would “buy the dip” then that they would up and leave. Some of the billionaires also want to found their own techno-fashist fiefdoms. This could be a good catalyst for that.
Tarrifs get paid to the Treasury, the Treasury is getting controlled by Musk and Trump, they can take whatever they want from those funds. Whos going to stop them? The Supreme Court takes bribes which can come from the same pot.
He just needs to keep a bit of support until all angles are secured. So he just spreads lies and blames everything on people here illegally to keep people pitted against each other. The largest source of illegals in this country is from overstaying Visas, the thing they are expanding to higher numbers… Aka more people to keep blaming shit on while putting on a show of deporting the ones that are already here.
Honestly doesn’t look like they’ll need much time to accomplish it.
Lol on the switch from income tax. I haven’t heard a peep about that since before the election. Everything is just going to cost more now and I’m still going to be paying income taxes.
p 698 of project 2025 document:
The federal income tax system heavily taxes capital and corporate income and discourages work, savings, and investment. The public finance literature is clear that a consumption tax would minimize government’s distortion of private economic decisions and thus be the least economically harmful way to raise federal tax revenues.
more riches to capital and corporations, consumers will pay for it. it’s all in there
Won’t someone think of the ultra wealthy?
I swear he wants to bring aristocracy to the US
I swear he wants to bring aristocracy to the US
He wants to further entrench the oligarchy, I think. And it seems to be working.
Did you hear his inauguration speech? Where he lamented the poor downtrodden billionaires who were now homeless because of the fires in LA?
Removed by mod
They have to say this in order to get around the provisions in the free trade agreement HE signed last time he was in office.
Unfair… Trade deficits…
His words… About his own trade deal
A. Enact sales tax on poor people so that they can fund further corporate tax cuts
B. Ruin relationships with the closest American allies as that is a net benefit for geopolitical rivals like Russia, who Trump is demonstrably in bed with
C. Market value collapse let’s all the rich cronies that have crawled up Trump’s asshole buy out what’s left of America’s assets at fire sale prices. 10 richest men doubled their wealth during covid. They want that to happen again.How much lower can the taxes on them go? Warren Buffet already says he pays almost nothing.
“Almost nothing” != “Nothing”
Besides, why stop at zero? Why shouldn’t our benevolent job creators have a negative tax rate?
You owe them money!
I’mma let you in on a secret: Fentanyl basically is only a meaningful threat to addicts who don’t know what they were taking. And if we actually cared about them, we would pump a fraction of a percent of our military budget into rehab and therapy to help them kick the habit and put narcan (sp?) in every emergency first aid kit right next to the defib. Beyond that, it is just an excuse for why a cop beat his wife or murdered a black kid.
As for what they ACTUALLY want to achieve? Saw an analyst hypothesize (on bluesky) that the real goal was the 10% tariffs. Put those on and drop them after vague claims of getting something in return (comparable to South America… fucking earlier this week?). It makes trump look “hard on China” while destabilizing relations between North America and later NATO. And it would result in basically every company jacking up their prices to pass that on to the consumer and then never lowering them because capitalism.
End result? increased profits for the oligarchs who jacked up their “made in America” products even more than the 10% they were now paying on materials and components.’
As for this? I don’t like seeing my retirement funds go down the toilet (and am not optimistic they are ever coming back up this time) but fuckin’ a. Burn it to the ground. It will hurt the little guy but it will hurt the 0.0000001%ers even more. The world is going to be on fire and have no water by the time I am eligible to take cash out of my 401k without penalties anyway.
That said? I assume he wants his base to believe the reason why groceries are still expensive is because Canada and Mexico just love fentanyl so much and they hate America. And his base will eat it up while the same useful idiots make sure the left is united against the Democrats (who do fucking suck but…).
It feels like he’s trying to accomplish the kind of hostile take over you see in business. That doesn’t really work with a country though…
Businesses cannot effectively function when the government is clowning around like this.
Canada would have to go back to adding items to that one particular list they made for us.
These tariffs are a way for Trump to tax his population so he can fund whatever he pleases. And the majority of his population don’t even understand this 25pct tax is going from their pocket straight into his.
Trump is still butt hurt about world leaders, especially Justin Trudeau, laughing at him and making fun of him behind his back. The tarrifs are a way to generate funds to pay for tax breaks for the rich. It will also allow American companies to raise prices, and profits, without the cheaper Canadian products and with less supply so more demand. It’s a bit of him being a bully, a bit of revenge, but mostly, like everything else he is doing, it’s about allowing the wealthy to loot the country bankrupt while burning the thing to the ground and enriching himself.
Trump needs a fight, he cannot function without an enemy.
Did he just pick the only two other countries he could find on a map?
It’s just a special operation to route out Nazis. It’s 15 cases going down to 0. It’ll be gone by Easter.
Getting a win even though it’s for something that wasn’t an issue in the first place.
If this escalates, wait until Canada decides to stop buying US made weapon systems. It will be expensive and time consuming to retrain, but the US is not a reliable defense partner under the neo-Nazi GOP. The US MIC must see the writing on the wall.
We really should have gone with the Gripen.
The Saab Gripen is one of the best deals available and there should have been more customers.
