Summary

In October 2020, Samuel Paty, a French teacher, was murdered following a false accusation by a 13-year-old student who claimed he’d shown anti-Muslim bias. The girl had made up the story to cover the fact she had been suspended from school for bad behaviour.

In reality, Paty’s lesson on free speech included optional viewing of Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but he hadn’t excluded anyone. The student’s story triggered a social media campaign led by her father, who, along with others, is now on trial for inciting hatred and connections to Paty’s attacker, an 18-year-old radicalized Chechen.

The school will be named the Samuel Paty School from next year.

  • solsangraal@lemmy.zip
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    11 days ago

    jfc when is the human species going to grow up and see religion as the make-believe bullshit that it is

    • Carvex@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      It will be a glorious day in the name of Humans when we finally dump the dumb shit and act like we control our own actions and future

      • Flax@feddit.uk
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        11 days ago

        And then people start raping animals because no more rules

        • MelastSB@sh.itjust.works
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          11 days ago

          … If there were no rules you’d rape animals? Maybe you should go to church, but don’t pretend we’re all like you

          • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            11 days ago

            No they certainly shouldn’t go to church. The next thing they’ll be doing is beheading people for wearing the wrong color socks. They need a therapist not a preacher.

              • nomous@lemmy.world
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                10 days ago

                Now now, we don’t know they’ve committed any crimes, just that they would if they weren’t superstitious.

                Besides, even (especially) inmates can benefit from a little therapy.

          • Flax@feddit.uk
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            11 days ago

            No, I’m not sexually attracted to animals. But if there’s no objective morality, then what’s wrong with raping animals?

        • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          Are rules the only thing keeping you from raping animals right now? Because that says more about you than the rest of the world.

          • Flax@feddit.uk
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            11 days ago

            If there is no God, then morality doesn’t exist.

            • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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              11 days ago

              And that’s why you are not a good person. Most people don’t need the threat of eternal hellfire to empathize and understand that it’s bad to hurt people.

              • Flax@feddit.uk
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                11 days ago

                That’s because there is a God and we have a moral compass that’s divinely designed. But without God, it can still be overridden. Everyone has committed evil at some point in their lives.

            • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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              10 days ago

              The religious do not have a monopoly on morality, ethics or the social contract. If they did, the secular people wouldn’t be outraged whenever a religious leader got caught diddling a kid.

              • Flax@feddit.uk
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                10 days ago

                If I had a penny for every time someone on here used the sexual abuse of children to try and debunk the resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I’d have enough to buy a sandwich.

                • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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                  9 days ago

                  Hypothetically, even if Jesus came back from the dead, what does that have to do with his self described “followers” being child molesters? What does that have to do with non believers being outraged at the various denominations reluctant at confronting the molesters?

            • pH3ra@lemmy.ml
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              10 days ago

              Did you read the article? Because I think the person beheading the guy had strong “religious morals”…

                • nyctre@lemmy.world
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                  10 days ago

                  So not only did you weep when you read the bible, but you also promptly forgot everything it said and proceeded to judge others despite Jesus’ words. What a good christian. Please go away.

                • pH3ra@lemmy.ml
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                  10 days ago

                  This is the most stupid answer I have ever got in my life

        • Tyfud@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          Morality is not derived from religion. Society has moved well past that.

          If you don’t understand then you lack education, but that’s the only reason. You are not in the right here.

          • Flax@feddit.uk
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            11 days ago

            Clearly not since society’s idea of morality keeps changing. So it shows if there’s no God, there’s no morality.

            • 2xar@lemmy.world
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              11 days ago

              Religious morality keeps changing as well. A few hundred years ago according to Christianity it was morally right to use black people as slaves, because they had no souls. Luckily, society has progressed and gradually it became immoral to enslave people all over the world. In the end, Christianity had no choice but to accept this - although it took some wars to convince them everywhere about it.

        • modifier@lemmy.ca
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          11 days ago
          1. Not all rules come from imaginary gods
          2. Most people don’t need rules to keep them from harming others
          • Flax@feddit.uk
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            11 days ago
            1. Then where do they come from, if there’s no objective morality.

            2. Not true, abortion is becoming rampant because political factions are trying to change a moral fact. Nazi Germany also attacked the Church and started allowing the dehumanisation of Jews through secularism.

              • 2xar@lemmy.world
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                11 days ago

                His point about Nazi’s attacking the Church is also blatantly false BTW. Nazi’s had a bit of a conflict with the Catholic church at the beginning, but they quickly reconciled and pretty much enabled them. Nazi’s also created their own version of Christianity, the biggest difference to other branches being that they claimed Jesus wasn’t actually jew, but of Aryan descent, and Hitler was the new Messiah:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

            • Cypher@lemmy.world
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              11 days ago

              NAZI Germany was Christian and endorsed by the Pope you absolute clown

              • Flax@feddit.uk
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                11 days ago

                The Nazis were absolutely NOT endorsed by the Pope. Romanist bishops were often jailed for speaking out.

                  • Flax@feddit.uk
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                    11 days ago

                    Nazi breaches of the agreement began almost as soon as it had been signed and intensified afterwards, leading to protest from the Church, including in the 1937 Mit brennender Sorge encyclical of Pope Pius XI. The Nazis planned to eliminate the Church’s influence by restricting its organizations to purely religious activities.

                    Read your own article.

            • Morality is a product of civilisation and community. It’s the ability of groups to decide on a single set of rules by which they would lime to be treated by, as breach of those rules can cause physical or emotional harm. And then there’s simple evolution, where certain “moral rules” allowed civilisations to survive and thrive better than others.

              At no point is “god” required here.

            • nyctre@lemmy.world
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              10 days ago

              Morality comes from the simple shit such as “I don’t like that…maybe I shouldn’t do it to others!” And stuff like “we’re stronger together”. Which even the creatures with tiny brains have managed to figure out before you. Congratulations.

        • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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          10 days ago

          The fact that raping animals is illegal is not the reason I don’t rape animals. If the only thing stopping you from committing horrific crimes is a belief in the sky man then I suggest you remove yourself from the general population (become a hermit) so us normal people don’t have to worry about you losing faith in your invisible friend and going berserk at a petting zoo.

        • gwilikers@lemmy.ml
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          11 days ago

          Humans already rape animals on an industrial scale. That’s what artificial insemination is. Religion didn’t stop that.

        • ikidd@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          I’d hoped this was missed sarcasm then I checked the profile. Its verifiable stupidity.

        • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works
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          11 days ago

          Or people commit genocide because of a command from an entity we just assume is the source of all morality and therefore their actions and commands cannot be immoral by definition.

          • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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            How about committing genocide because genetic science proves that your race has superior genes? The problem is with people’s behaviours themselves, regardless of what excuses someone uses to justify them.

            • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works
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              11 days ago

              We can have a discussion about the moral frameworks where that would be wrong but an absolute moral giver allows for no such discussion.

              • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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                11 days ago

                Discussion is absolutely possible as to interpretations, specifically amongst those who actually hold the reigns of power.

                • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works
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                  11 days ago

                  Interpretation can be possible, but often the driver doesn’t seem to be a genuine seeking of a moral truth but working backwards to avoid morally unpalatable conclusions or outright cherry picking and ignoring certain parts of a text. I see that as a tacit admission that morals don’t actually come from the text itself but maybe there’s something I’m missing as I’m far from an expert.

                  • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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                    11 days ago

                    No matter how divinely inspired any text may be, it will ultimately suffer from the imperfections of the limited human ability to convey ideas amongst each other, and over thousands of years it becomes corrupt. This is obviously exacerbated by those who would deliberately seek to derive power from it, in ignorance of any truth which may have been professed at the origin.

        • frunch@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          Lol make sure to check out this guys posting history for more zany fun, this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this guys animal rape fantasies

    • John Richard@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      The funny thing is that most politicians know it is make believe yet they pretend to be religious just to get the votes. It is also a highly effective mechanism to subdue and control the population and manipulate them.

      • 2xar@lemmy.world
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        11 days ago

        Organized religion is a really effective way and tool for brainwashing. Of course there are many other tools as well, but religion is probably the best one. That’s why it’s so popular.

        Just like with guns. If you control and ban firerarms, there are still going to be some murders. But much-much less, because you take away the easiest way of commiting one.

        • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
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          11 days ago

          I’m of the opinion that a lot of gun control is ineffective, especially given what guns are supposed to mean. Yes places like Australia have been extremely successful in removing guns, but also look at their policing system and governmental overreach which is honestly quite terrible. I’m of the opinion that the most effective gun control is changing the culture surrounding guns. Bring back (optional) shooting classes in schools, teach kids (and adults) gun safety and actual useful knowledge about firearms. Regulate the access, storage, and use of ammunition. Change the culture from people thinking they’ll be John Wick once they get their glock to people who actually understand that firearms are tools that can be used as weapons, and that they require time, effort, training, and a lot of responsibility to use safely. The cat is out of the bag in the US; guns aren’t going away. Acting like we can remove them is silly, but we can change the perception around them.

          I also think we need similar movements for a lot of things, like cars.

          • filister@lemmy.world
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            10 days ago

            In most developed countries you don’t even need a gun. Why would you need a gun if you are living in Paris, or Rome for example, or New York.

            • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
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              In Paris and Rome most of the police don’t have automatic rifles.

              And I think plenty of people would tell and show you exactly why you need a gun in NYC.

          • 2xar@lemmy.world
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            11 days ago

            My post was actually about religion and I only used gun control as a theoretical comparison.

            However, it seems funny to me that you start by stating that ‘gun control is ineffective’, and then proceed to describe gun control in great detail and praise it.

            Gun control =/= banning all guns.

          • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
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            10 days ago

            As a counter point, America has fewer gun restrictions and more convicts than Australia. Gun laws and government overreach do not seem connected.

            • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
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              America has a lot of government overreach too, don’t get me wrong. I’m just saying that American gun laws were originally meant to be modeled after Swiss gun laws and if we had also adopted Swiss gun culture we wouldn’t have the problems we do today.

              • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
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                10 days ago

                I understood your point. I was showing that not only does America have “a lot” of government overreach, it has “more” government overreach. An Australian is less likely to be shot by another of its citizens and less likely to be imprisoned, enslaved, or killed by its government.

                • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
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                  Sure, I can agree with that. But the amount of police corruption is also quite high in Australia. Not saying the US doesn’t have that, but it’s a lot of the same issues just without guns. I mean look at FriendlyJordies getting firebombed for whistleblowing on politicians.

                  • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
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                    I couldn’t say where police corruption is worse if I’m honest, I would guess its worse in America. But, Police violence is absolutely worse in America.

                    Regardless, I think the take away is: “whatever the intention, guns don’t equal civil liberties”.

        • filister@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          And let’s not fool ourselves. It is all about controlling the masses.

          Right now politics and religion is one dividing factor that fuels enormously the racist views of the population. It simply divides us more than it unites us.

    • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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      As i always say confront the collective not the individual. If you follow your personal believes i dont have a problem with you but dont force it onto others and dont make it overly structured because it will be used to manipulate people.

    • Ogmios@sh.itjust.works
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      11 days ago

      The problem is that it’s not just make believe bullshit, but over thousands of years, and being abused repeatedly by those seeking to derive power from it, the original message/intent gets lost entirely.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      Probably never sadly. There’s always going to be something people go towards that gives their life meaning, and that will (almost by requirement) create a group that is against them. Even if it isn’t “religion” it’ll be something like politics or something else, which people don’t actually think about and just believe in.

    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      The most deadly religion isn’t even recognized by those who claim to oppose… As long as people bow down to costumed cops, robed judges, and phony politicians… As long as people worship their slaver “fathers” and swear their lives to defend some slaver’s pact… There will be zero rationality as we regularly see.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion

    • Flax@feddit.uk
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      11 days ago

      Ah yes, so we can murder each other over political ideologies instead