Dutch beach volleyball player Steven van de Velde, who served time in prison after he was convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl, won his second match at the Paris Olympics and received an even harsher reaction from the crowd on Wednesday than for his first match.
“I was disappointed with the crowd, for sure,” Immers said. “I cannot do anything about his past anymore. I’m here to play with him. … So, yeah, I’m disappointed with it. But I think mentally we’re really strong, and I’m really strong to get through this, together. And we’re going to do that.”
Then:
Immers was asked about the reception and said the two spoke on the court and recognized they would need to be extra supportive of each other. Asked if he understood why they received that reception, he said, “I don’t want to talk about that, if it’s OK.”
So they can bitch that people bboed, but he won’t acknowledge the reason is he raped a literal child?
Fuck that guy, I hope the whole stadium booes anytime he shows his face.
If he was going to pull the “I’m here for volleyball” then he should shut the fuck up 24/7. Not try to play the victim then refuse to admit why they’re booing.
So they can bitch that people booed, but he won’t acknowledge the reason is he raped a literal child?
Mathew Immers is not the guy who raped the child. That is Steven van de Velde.
Immers is van de Velde’s beach volleyball partner.He is complaining that the crowd booed his partner. The partner he chose to play with. But he won’t recognize that the reason the pair is being booed is that one of the partners is a child rapist. I think it’s fair to think that that is bad.
They’re all Emmanuel Goldstein during the two minute hate.
Yes, Immers is the same as Emmanual Goldstein, an unseen character in the novel 1984 who did not even exist but was famous for having refused to discuss a controversy where his teammate repeatedly raped a child.
What was the sentence for his crime?
Do all nations have the same focus on rehabilitation as the US prison system?
Is it possible for an individual to commit such an act and reform themselves, perhaps even earn the trust of society again?
He served one year in the UK for raping a 12-year-old multiple times. Then, through a treaty, he was extradited to the Netherlands and served no more time at all. He called the whole thing nonsense when the press asked him about it.
Please do tell us how that is a fair punishment for raping a 12 year old multiple times.
The US does not have a rehabilitation prison system. We don’t really have a justice system, we have a vengeance system and a torture prison system. I don’t think prison should be torture or a slave plantation for any convict in any case. Although our property crime sentencing is overly harsh and violent crimes against a person are far to lenient. I think rapists need to be removed from society more than anything else, it should be up there with murder one. Also I think most non violent convicts could be on house arrest, work, pay taxes, and not be vengefully tortured.
I’m only intolerant of intolerance. That means I’ll forgive murderers and rapists once they’ve completed their punishment and rehabilitation. But, I also understand that my perspective on forgiveness isn’t common.
Except you’re not forgiving them once they’ve had their punishment and Rehabilitation. As pointed out this child rapist is unremorsful. He was neither punished nor rehabilitated. He’s an unrepentant child rapist. That’s who you’re defending.
A year for multiple rapes if a 12 year old is barely a sentence, no matter what justice system you’re in. And he’s clearly not even sorry.
So I’m not overly familiar, but I can try to summarize what I know.
Steven van de Velde is a Dutchman who went to the UK and raped a 12 year-old. He was sentenced to four years in prison for this by a UK court. Later he was extradited to the Netherlands, so he could sit out his sentence in the NL. However in the Netherlands, unlike the UK, sex with a minor is not automatically considered rape and needs to be proven in court. (Note: That is my understanding of the difference in interpretation) Because of this his conviction was reduced to “ontucht”, meaning sexual misconduct. (Even though what he did would probably also be considered rape in Dutch court).
As a result, he was out of prison after 13 months.Now, Dutch attitude to these kinds of things, in my experience, is generally (but not always) that if you have paid your time, and have shown remorse for your actions, then it should probably not affect your future career prospects. The justice system is supposed to rehabilitate after all. (That is my experience though, and my experience may be biased, so don’t take this as gospel)
Hart van Nederland did a survey, and apparently only 27% of respondents think he should not be allowed to compete. 63% of respondents think he should be allowed to compete, and 10% don’t have an opinion either way. (Note that Hart van Nederland is not the most reliable of sources, but it gives an indication)
From what I have seen in Dutch circles this controversy is a lot less pronounced than it is in other countries. That’s not to say it is entirely uncontroversial, but it’s not quite to the same degree as I’m seeing internationally.
Personal opinion:
I don’t think his sentence should have been lowered to “ontucht”. I think what he did is morally reprehensible, and he should have sat out the full sentence for raping a minor. That is a failure on behalf of the justice system though, and van de Velde is not personally to blame for that.
That said, given that he has shown remorse for his actions, and has finished the sentence that the legal system imposed on him, I don’t think he should have been barred from competing in the Olympics on behalf of the Dutch team.Edit: As Flying Squid mentioned I might be mistaken that he has shown genuine remorse.
If he hasn’t that changes my opinion on the matter.given that he has shown remorse for his actions,
Remorse?
After his release in 2017, van de Velde complained about “all the nonsense” reporting on his crime in the media, claiming that the term pedophile did not apply to him, without expanding further.[1][20] At the same time he stated not yet having read any of the reporting he was criticizing.[21] The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) in Britain condemned his comments at the time, stating that his “lack of remorse and self-pity is breathtaking”.[15]
Return to sport
Van de Velde returned to international competition in 2018. He excused himself in an interview, saying about the rapes that occurred when he was 19-years-old, that he: “made that choice in my life when I wasn’t ready, I was a teenager still figuring things out. I was sort of lost”.[22] He has since described it as “the biggest mistake of [his] life”.[23]
The Dutch Volleyball Association allowed him to resume his career as a beach volleyball player. In 2024, he was controversially selected to represent the Netherlands in the 2024 Summer Olympics.[24] However, in order to “establish calm”, the Dutch Olympic Committee isolated van de Velde from the rest of the Dutch team, and barred him from talking to media.[25] An online petition calling for his removal from the Olympics had 80,000 supporters.[26]
His “remorse” was over getting caught. He has never offered the slightest bit of apology to the victim.
If he hasn’t shown genuine remorse than changes my stance.
Given what I had read on the matter I was under the impression he had shown remorse. Particularly the “biggest mistake of [his] life” remark.
That squid guy is quite ridiculous. He regularly throws reason out the window to feed his ego by bashing whomever he can pass shallow judgement upon.
“Not to excuse it in any way but this took place, I think, 10 years ago and I think, as a general rule I think we need to allow for the possibility of rehabilitation,” Mark Adams said at the IOC’s news conference on the day of van de Velde’s debut.
That’s where I think the mob goes wrong. Rape is a pretty big mistake. But, the best people I know today are that way in total rejection of who they once were. They’ve never brought it up. I confront them when I see myself in them.
Van de Velde was given a four-year sentence in 2016.
…at the time of his sentencing that he appeared via video link at Aylesbury Crown Court and wept as he heard his victim ended up self-harming and taking an overdose.
After serving part of his jail term in England, he was sent back to the Netherlands where his sentence was adjusted according to Dutch laws.
…after his release had sought professional counselling.
His actions seem to demonstrate compliance and remorse.
The Dutch volleyball federation (Nevobo) said van de Velde was “proving to be an exemplary professional and human being and there has been no reason to doubt him since his return”.
Meanwhile, the country’s Olympic committee said van de Velde had met all the qualification requirements for the Olympic Games “and is therefore part of the team”.
Those empowered to judge him have judged him forgiven.
On what basis should we believe differently?
We could find a stupid or good reason to discard each and every individual. Humans are deeply flawed. I need not conveniently bash this talented man to feel good about myself. I chose the more difficult and quite unpopular position of forgiveness.
You’re seemingly the only person who understood. You’re true to your username. I liked how you didn’t assign him responsibility for the perceived failure of the justice system. I think it was the critical thing that needed said when saying that he did more than what was mandated. Thank you for speaking up.
Reason wins because propaganda has a much shorter half life.
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Removed, civility.
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I think it is important to distinguish the innocent partner here. Beach volleyball is incredibly demanding, and at the elite level, a very low population sport. It takes athletes their whole careers to just to make the world tour hoping to one day reach the olympics. For Immers he has busted his ass for years and at some point his national body probably paired him up with the other guy. It’s possible he may not have even known about it until they were partners and had established their dynamic and working relationship. Finding and building a team with a partner you click with on the court is hard-earned. I can imagine that Immers is absolutely distraught at the situation he’s been put in. He has a crappy choice here no matter what. Abandon what he’s spent his whole career building up to, now that he’s made it - because of something he had nothing to do with, knowing he may never get this chance again, even if he were to find another available partner… it takes years to learn how to play as a team; or he sucks it up, focuses on his own journey, cops the reflected criticism and hostility and tries to keep his emotions out of it…
It’s shitty either way. He abandons his dream because of someone else’s actions; or he chases them and becomes collateral damage.
Don’t get me started on the poor kid whose life was never the same again, having all this trauma dredged up and shoved back in her face. There’s nothing about this that doesn’t suck.
I think it is important to distinguish the innocent partner here
Then he can stop bitching that people are booing his partner who raped a fucking 12 year old.
Pick a lane, “no comment” or acknowledge what he did and ask for forgiveness.
This is literally the Dutch team complaining that people are booing, and refusing to acknowledge an incredibly valid reason why it’s happening.
Fuck em both.
Like you said, it’s a small population of players. Even if this guy was #1 in the Netherlands, if #2 thru 25 said they won’t play with a child rapist, the child rapist wouldn’t be on the team.
Don’t get me started on the poor kid whose life was never the same again, having all this trauma dredged up and shoved back in her face. There’s nothing about this that doesn’t suck.
You think she forgot till now?
You think she doesn’t know his name?
Why is the issue talking about how he’s a child rapist and not that the child rapist is in the goddamn Olympics?
Quick edit:
It’s shitty either way. He abandons his dream because of someone else’s actions; or he chases them and becomes collateral damage.
We don’t call people heroes for doing the right thing because it’s easy and sacrifice free.
But we do call people shit bags for doing the wrong thing for personal gain/glory.
Which is what we’re doing here.
Except you, you’re out here complaining people booed a guy who raped a 12 year old.
Why?
Wow man, that’s a hot take. I’m not complaining at all. The crowd is upset that the Dutch team have chosen to select a man convicted of a heinous act. I absolutely abhor what that criminal did and in my mind there is absolutely no excusing or trivialising or equivocating on that. It’s unthinkable. I am not putting judgment on the crowd at all. I completely understand why they are doing it.
I don’t believe he was complaining in the interview. A journo asked him the world’s most obvious question and he has nowhere to go. He can’t defend his partner (not should he, not that he wanted to). He can only speak for himself and say it’s hard to get booed when personally you didn’t do the thing and you’ve worked so hard to get here.
I don’t know why you think I have anything but sincere empathy for the poor victim. I’m recognising that having a truly horrific life experience become fodder for the media, years after you last had that chapter of your life made public and the subject of speculation and judgment, must be a terrible ordeal - she will never forget his name or what happened, but there’s a difference between that and having this asshole on the front page of every news outlet for a month. It must be a genuinely traumatic experience to have it be made acute again.
You’re passionate and assertive in your feelings about this. I respect that and I don’t disagree with your sentiments. I don’t think your read meshes with what I was trying to say. I actually think we’re morally pretty well aligned. In the context of your comment, I don’t know many genuine heroes, they do what most people can’t - that’s why they’re so revered. We all know the way, only few actually walk it.
I don’t think that guy’s really complaining about the booing, I think he’s trying to separate the rapist from the other competitors.
I don’t know the case, and I’m very surprised the Netherlands let this guy compete for them, but he is and apparently served prison time (not as much as he probably should’ve). If he’s already served a prison sentence, then the Netherlands government probably believes he has been punished for the crime and is “rehabilited”. If he’s served time, double jeopardy applies to any punishment he would receive after the fact (IIRC).
I don’t know the rapist and I don’t care about him, I’d hope he’s incredibly remorseful and I’m not defending what he did, but like the OP was driving at; why are the actions of the rapist POS who served prison time tainting the other athletes competing for their own interests / country that legally posits the guy has been punished for his actions? Imagine being proud of your work and being booed because of the previous unrelated actions of a coworker you may or may not like.
If murderers are able to serve their prison sentence and be freed after their crime and feel remorse for their actions etc., at what point in time does someone stop being punished for their previous actions? I’m bringing up the rhetorical question in response to the common vitriol in comments surrounding sex crimes that bleeds onto anyone involved.
Unless you believe in the death penalty and that the rapist deserved to die for his actions by the hands of his government, what does it take for everyone to move forward? I ask because you’re positing the other Netherland’s athlete is essentially guilty because he didn’t risk his Olympic ambitions and refuse to play with the rapist who legally served his sentence.
How long he should’ve been in prison is another debate.
That’s not how double Double Jeopardy works (Netherlands also has a different name for it). It prevents you from being tried twice for a crime for which you’ve been acquitted/convicted. It does not prevent a country from refusing to have you represent them on the world stage.
It is actually how it works in terms of official punishments(in the US at least):
Amdt5.2.1.2.4 Imposition of Multiple Punishments for the Same Offense
Fifth Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The Double Jeopardy Clause protects against imposition of multiple punishment for the same offense.1 The application of the principle leads, however, to a number of complexities. In a simple case, it was held that where a court inadvertently imposed both a fine and imprisonment for a crime for which the law authorized one or the other but not both, it could not, after the fine had been paid and the defendant had entered his short term of confinement, recall the defendant and change its judgment by sentencing him to imprisonment only.2 But the Court has held that the imposition of a sentence does not from the moment of imposition have the finality that a judgment of acquittal has. Thus, it has long been recognized that in the same term of court and before the defendant has begun serving the sentence the court may recall him and increase his sentence.
Obviously not being picked for an olympic team isnt an official punishment, but the principle of not punishing someone for the same crime after they complete their given sentence is true.
From the US, but the philosophical reasoning still applies.
You misunderstand the point. The Netherlands did not stop him from competing for them, presumably because he’s served his time for the crime by their standards.
That’s your problem with the Netherland’s Olympic committee then, not the other athletes - the whole point of the post.
What point am I misunderstanding? You claimed double jeopardy applies. It does not. Not representing your country in the Olympics does not count as an official punishment for the same act.
The point is he was punished and likely contributed to him not being barred from Olympic participation. Ignore the double jeopardy statement then, engage with the actual discussion about the non rapist.
If his buddy has broken his leg before the Olympics they would have found a replacement.
I guess that’s my point - no he wouldn’t. If his partner was out, that’s it. Min 4+ years gone. The nature of the sport and what it takes to qualify - no he wouldn’t.
If he has known for years and continued playing in the partnership then he’s made his bed and it’s time to lie in it. In the absence of info saying just that, I’m leaving room for the possibility that he’s found this out at the same time the news reading public has.
I’m not endorsing his choice. I’m saying he was faced with a shitty one. There may be a moral black and white here, I’m not trying to argue the right thing to do. I’m suggesting that likely through no fault of his own he had (and has) a choice to make. Obviously he’s made it. I think it’s reductive to declare it is a simple decision when you’ve dedicated years of your life, made daily sacrifice, put off having a family, a career, bank savings, preparing for the future to chase the chance of something fleeting. When it is all culminating in a moment- it takes a unique person to have given up so much for that dream to then willingly let it go at the last hurdle. He may for the rest of his life wish that he did.
Again, I’m not arguing the morals of the situation, I’m recognising the complexity of it.
It’s been said that all it takes in this world for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. I sincerely want to be the kind of person who would abandon my whole life’s drive and focus to do what I believe is right. There is a hell of a lot of evil in this world - perhaps that’s because it’s a lot harder to do when facing it in the moment.
Beach volleyball is incredibly demanding, and at the elite level, a very low population sport. It takes athletes their whole careers
busted his ass for years
spent his whole career
for whatever reason someone might want to dedicate their entire life to earning the “best volleyball player” title for a few years, those were all 100% his decisions. if someone chooses to compete in a system that will even allow rapists to compete, then…sucks to suck? and it seems incredibly douchey to decide to play with a rapist and then try to act like the victim when the crowd boos
would YOU play on team rapist? if you would, then fuck you too.
if you wouldn’t, then why spill so much ink over trying to justify playing on team rapist?
to the larger conversation, this is one reason i say fuck the olympics altogether, it does more harm than good
The level of hostility toward the partner here caught me off guard… Yeesh…
Not even agreeing or disagreeing, just seems like a lot of misplaced anger.
Then when the press asks him about getting booed he can say “i disagree with my partner’s life choices and understand the boos, but I am here to properly represent my country.” Instead of defending a convicted, unrepentant, child rapist.
I agree, this situation is twisted on both sides. Additionally this situation seems like non-statutory rape which makes the 1 year sentence quite lenient.
Denmark are making the choice to shove him in everybody’s faces they made the choice to put him on the national team.
It’s Netherlands, but yes - he was selected by the national team.
I question what kind of person is willing to play doubles with a convicted child rapist.
And then openly defend them to the media.
This whole thing is gross.
They asked him a question and he answered. If you’re going to be mad at him for saying that then you should be mad at the people who asked the question.
He pulled the “no comment” card tho.
If he won’t talk about why they’re booing, he shouldn’t talk about the booing
But again, he shouldn’t be enabling a child rapist in the first place.
While I think the Netherlands has a commendable approach to prison and rehabilitation, This dude should not be a representative for your country. If you say he’s served enough time, we can disagree (because he absolutely did not), but the choice to put him in Netherlands Orange and on international TV was a colossal mistake.
He should definitely be wearing orange, just not Netherlands Orange…
Not that Dutch prisons actually put people in orange prison clothes
He wants him sent to US Federal “pound me in the ass” prison.
Just booing?
He went to another country, raped a 12-yo, fled and after conviction, his government - the Netherlands, only decided to give him a year of prison.
There’s an important detail that I’m not really seeing here. The UK gave him an 8 year sentence. The Netherlands negotiated to have him transferred to their jurisdiction, which happened after 1 year served, and then the Netherlands promptly let him go.
What else should they be doing? Storming the court and dragging him to a lynching tree? I’m guessing the French wouldn’t be especially accommodating to such vigilantism.
They could have not invited a convicted child rapist to represent their country at the Olympics.
“They” are not the booing crowd.
I’m guessing the French wouldn’t be especially accommodating to such vigilantism.
You are absolutely correct!
You’d need to use a guillotine.
Holding up signage, shouting rapist, turning their backs…there is a lot of room between booing and lynching.
Not putting him on a pedestal as a representative of your country would be a good start.
I think they were doing that by booing him.
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There’s SO many options between one year in prison and extra judicial killing. Like, in prison for 10 years, just off the top of my head.
I agree, but the booing crowd aren’t the ones that can put him in prison for 10 years.
Stop putting words in their mouth, there are so many things to do other than booing that are non violent but you just immediately took the most extreme possible outcome and suggested that was what the person you are reply to meant.
This mod is notorious for this.
I didn’t put words in their mouths, I asked a question.
“What else should they do next?” Was the question, everything that came after was you putting words in their mouth as an answer
Again, you are not psychic. You do not know what I meant by what I said because you didn’t ask.
An incredibly leading question, yes
You do not know my intentions. You are not psychic.
Roman Polanski has entered the chat.
Being against lynching means I’m a child rapist? Really?
No no no no. I was just pointing out that France won’t extradite a child rapist. Calm down friend.
Edit: spelling
Sorry, I understand now.
i think at the very least he deserves an ass whooping. not trying to get into vigilante wierdo justice here but it would be nice to see one less confirmed remorseless pedo in this world since the system has definitely failed in this case.
So…you are suggesting the lynching tree.
ya basically but im not trying to come off as a edgelord maniac saying its the responsibility of regular people to vigilante this guy. itd be cool if they did but i doubt that would make the person this piece of filth hurt feel any better. At the very least tho itd be cool to see him jumped and every bone broken in his body and him then turned into a vegetable thatd be cool.
Well, I’m sure you tried. It’s still an edgelord maniac’s take.
l think its actually pretty reasonable to want a unrepentant pedophile rapist who has escaped justice to be served his just desserts. Im against the death penalty world wide because again justice isnt perfect and sometimes innocent people (especially in america and especially minorities) get executed. But in a rare case like this i think the gloves should be taken off a lil, but who knows maybe im just deranged.
You might not be trying to get into vigilante justice but you did anyway
Yes?
Really? You want vigilantism and lynching? Do you think that might possibly go wrong at some point?
I think it’s a little different than typical vigilantism when he’s convicted and demonstrably used his privilege to get out of it, much less when he’s in the Olympics representing his nation (of child rapists, apparently, thus the government officials defending his right to get children drunk and rape them).
You are right that France isn’t the place to do it though, the French pedophilic cabal that has infiltrated the government is their Supreme Court.
“A little different.” This time. What about all the other times? What if it’s a member of the French supreme court that it turns out that, despite you thinking they’re a pedophile, they aren’t actually a pedophile?
I mean if they’re high in the judiciary they’re already guilty of something. It’s like billionaires, you know? Probably best to just get rid of the lot. Safer.
Or are they one of the ones stopping the corruption from spreading, but the lynch mob was convinced by the corrupt one that they were the real pedophile?
Also, black people were regularly accused of that in the U.S. during the era when lynchings were common.
Throw rocks at him. Large rocks.
Maybe they can start by sitting on the court/field? 😏
The Netherlands is kind of fucked up when it comes to morality sometimes. I used to work with people from this country, and there were constant issues.
Edit: look up “Netherlands Santa”
I’m sorry, but this is just really kind of disingenuous to start something like this next to a topic such as this. Your experience with one company or something is purely anecdotal and the controversy around Zwarte Piet is also very nuanced to this very day. The kind of nuance someone not from here will not get from a casual google search. For anyone that cares about actually understanding, here’s a rundown:
Many people attributed Zwarte Piet as a fun and good role model for kids, not some kind of caricature clown to laugh at. Literally almost everyone grew up knowing and having a fond enjoyment of Zwarte Piet, like a childhood imaginary friend that always showed up when you needed a smile the most. And that creates a strong desire to set that positivity forth by continuing the tradition. It takes really good reasons to destroy something most people attribute to be part of the greater good of their lives.
We try to understand racism, and strive to effectively reduce it rather than just mindlessly treat symptoms. Many people saw the existence of Zwarte Piet as a way to instill positive experiences to kids who might be isolated from having positive experiences with actual people of color. We know that in part racism comes about from not having enough (or too many bad) real world experiences with people of different skin colors. It is a type of fear of the unknown. As such, this still seems like solid reasoning. (Fun note, rats will also not help other stranger rats with a different fur color to escape even with no direct harm to themselves except when they have already lived alongside aside a rat with that fur color)
Even people of color were not completely on one side, but for the ones that it hurt, it hurt loudly. Black people in the Caribbean (Also part of the Netherlands) still use Zwarte Piet to this day, because they do not care - They do not see the racism in it. Unfortunately there seems to be a correlation between being affected by racism and seeing the racism in Zwarte Piet, as many of us learned as the conversation marched on. And racists definitely did wield Zwarte Piet to make their racism be known. In a world without racism, Zwarte Piet would not be controversial. And many people were not acutely aware of the racism some people of color faced.
The majority has wanted to get rid of it (since about 2018, actually), and most places have more accepted solutions in place now. But this does not mean that many people agree because we think Zwarte Piet is actually inherently racist. It’s because we’ve heard the concerns of people of color and weighed their burden to be more important to relieve than the perceived benefit of tradition and instilling a positive message on people that look different from yourself. It also didn’t help that the vast majority of people that still wanted to overrule those concerns were pretty obviously racist, which pushed even more people over the edge, because we don’t want to hold traditions in place that shield racists and bigots. Some countries could really learn from that.
EDIT: Added a video about the rat study :)
What the actual fuck does that have to do with the current story
The other responder here is either an AI bot trying to cloud the issue wa long answer, or a human doing the same. Right out of the playbook— Not falling for it 💅
If you’re not willing to be nuanced about difficult topics in good faith, you clearly do not care about it, nor about making the world a better place.
There’s nuance, which takes a while, and there’s distraction, easily achieved by loooong posts plus ooh a rat study
There’s also the absolute lack of nuance of “Haha the Dutch are all kinda racist - look they wear blackface as a tradition, aren’t they so morally reprehensible am I right?”. Of course I’m going for maximum nuance after that, because they already muddied the water.
And you damn well know that posting that carelessly next to a different touchy subject is in extreme bad faith. It’s almost like you’re mad I didn’t let them slander my country unopposed. Get outta here.
Dude they even said that Zwarte Pete is being phased out because while Zwarte Pete themselves in the context of only the Netherlands wasnt very problematic, the fact that the world is more globalized and Americans who HAD been hurt by THEIR history of Blackface took precedence over an overall positive tradition for people of the Netherlands. Nuance exists, and American history is not WORLD history
That’s ridiculous
The story from wikipedia, since I never see it written down:
"In 2014, van de Velde, aged 19 at the time, corresponded with a 12-year-old girl who sent him a friend request on Facebook. He said he believed the girl was 16 at the time they began to communicate, but he continued despite her telling him her age. In August 2014, he travelled to her home town, Milton Keynes in England, gave her alcohol and raped her near the local Furzton Lake.[12] That same night, van de Velde tried to stay at a hotel with his victim but was denied a room so they slept under a staircase.[13] There were further two instances of rape the next day.[12] During one of the three rapes, the victim told van de Velde that he was hurting her.[14]
Van de Velde returned to the Netherlands after the rapes[15] and told his victim to go to a sexual health clinic for contraception, at which point her age alerted concern among the staff.[14] He was extradited to the United Kingdom and arrested in January 2016.[15] The victim expressed feelings of guilt and had been self-harming and once overdosed, facts that caused the judge to “give van de Velde a scathing rebuke” during the case.[14][16]"
After his release in 2017, van de Velde complained about “all the nonsense” reporting on his crime in the media, claiming that the term pedophile did not apply to him, without expanding further.
An unrepentant rapist who only served a whole 13 months for raping someone three times.
a twelve year old, specifically
OMFG I misread things initially and though 12 years was how long he was in prison. 13 months??? That’s insane, and I am usually for more lenient punishments and rehabilitation programs. Harsh punishments to a point just equate to revenge eventually, but fuck this guy. He should have served a much harsher sentence. Just reading the description of what happened makes my stomach turn.
The problem with the rehabilitation argument is he clearly wasn’t rehabilitated after 13 months because he wasn’t repentant. So regardless of if the prison sentence is there as punishment or as rehabilitation 13 months was clearly not an adequate length of time in either case.
We agree
He said he believed the girl was 16 at the time they began to communicate
he does know that 16 is still underage right?
Not in a lot of countries, like England and the Netherlands.
And a lot of places in the US.
it might be legal but it’s still underage, especially when he was 19.
The term underage refers to the legal age at which someone can participate in or consent to something, so while a 16-year-old would not have been underage for sex in either country, the 12-year-old he had sex with certainly was well underage.
Honestly fuck him and his teammate. The rapist wouldnt be playing if everyone refused to play with him. Full stop. These calls would be different if he showed remorse but instead he wants to complain. You dont get to complain about other’s opinion of you after you rape somebody.
There’s a German saying that I’m going to poorly reproduce.
If you’re at table with eleven others and one’s a NAZI then there are twelve NAZI’s at the table.
I think it applies here.
Ive always heard it the reverse but same message. “If you choose to sit at a table with 11 Nazi’s then there are 12 Nazi’s at the table.” Same sentiment though and i absolutely agree.
If there’s 11 people at a table and a Nazi joins them, there are 12 Nazis at that table.
See I dislike this one because the people at the table arent making the choice. I feel its more impactful when the “non Nazi” is choosing to associate with the known Nazi.
The idea is that you have to make an active choice to oppose them. Most people in the “Nazi Party” were just there because they wanted a job. If you didn’t join the party it was harder to get good jobs.
Ah that makes sense.
The point is that if 11 random people accept the one nazi, then there are a dozen nazis. Because nazism is so extreme that it is only accepted by other nazis.
But also, that “1 nazi” is how it starts. Ever wonder how a bar becomes a nazi bar? It’s because one dude with nazi tattoos came in, was nice and quiet, and didn’t get kicked out even though he was obviously a nazi. And then eventually, he started bringing his buddies. And they were nice too. They were polite, they were orderly, and they tipped well. They didn’t get kicked out.
But eventually, the nazis outnumber the non-nazis, and that’s when things begin to devolve. Suddenly, they’re not so accepting. You start hearing drunken slurs when they think you’re out of earshot. There’s suddenly an undertone of violence which wasn’t present before. The regular patrons don’t feel safe coming to your bar anymore. Eventually, if you fit the demographic, they begin treating you like you’re a nazi too. And now the nazis have found their new favorite bar to hang out at. You as the bartender are afraid to kick them out, because you feel like you’ll be in danger if you do. And it all started because one nazi was polite, and you didn’t kick him out for not making a fuss.
Yeah explained like that it makes sense to me.
The people at the table are making the choice to stay there.
But then switching costs can muddle the point. If you’re already walking around looking for a table, then you don’t have to get up and move your half-eaten dinner. What if he follows you, how many times will you get up? If you just shove enough food in your mouth to get by, and then leave promptly, does that count?
I’ve heard it that the first 11 don’t complain.
If you’re the majority you don’t have to leave; you can refuse them a seat.
I recall Nazis were only about a third of the Reichstag when Hitler enacted emergency powers, and maybe that in the population.
Republicans I think are between a quarter to a third of the US population - and the more famously crazy ones not even that.
You leave at that point.
if there’s 1 person at the table and 11 Nazi joins them, there are 12 Nazis at the table.
But what if you’re choosing to sit at the table of Nazis because there’s a bomb in your briefcase that will kill some of them and damage Hitler’s hearing?
Well then you should build a better bomb.
I’ve heard it with the word fascist instead of Nazi but I’m not sure if the original saying uses Nazi or fascist. It’s true of course either way
From another article:
There are also those, such as the court reporter Chris Klomp, who have argued that he is not the “sex monster” or “groomer” he has been made out to be in some English-language media.
Klomp wrote on X that, although what Van de Velde did was utterly wrong and punishable, he did not physically force the girl to have sex with him. He wrote: “The absence of coercion (other than the age difference) is also evident from the fact that the British court acquitted him of grooming. It was not his intention to ‘persuade her’ into sexual acts.”
Wow. That reporter just made himself look like a pedophile by defending the pedophile rapist that hard.
He used the “she came on to me” line? Gross. They’re all gross and weird people.
And it 100% isn’t true. I know in the past there have been cases of underage individuals doing that but they’re usually older than 12. It tends to be school age children who think they know what romance is.
Not a 12-year-old kid.
…is 12 not school age?
Also, are you suggesting that somehow makes a difference?
It also leaves out the part where he gave her alcohol
Not gonna lie, no matter how gross the age difference is, I keep thinking about the couples from my high school (in Germany, where the age of consent is 14) where there were 12 and 13 year olds involved with 17-19 year olds. It was rare but it happened and the relationships often lasted quite a while, so it was kind of… consensual, for lack of a better term. And since I don’t know the girl or Van De Velde personally and I haven’t been there, I wanted to abstain from judging this other than on the legal basis.
But when I read that he gave her alcohol - a 12 year old - no way. Sorry but no matter how iN lOvE anyone was or whatever, you do not give a 12 year old alcohol, unless it’s a sip of your beer and she’s your kid (saying this as someone raised in Bavaria). But other than that, no alcohol. And when you end up fucking a 12 year old - which is awful to begin with, worse since they only met - and first intoxicating her, that is just the point at which you cannot argue any kind of maturity, love, attraction, age of consent crap or whatever anymore. You intoxicated and fucked a minor. Period.
The more details from the case are revealed the more I have to say fuck that guy. But at the same time - fuck the judges double and triple.
I appreciate your comment. I would just like to say that sometimes when 12 and 13 year olds get involved with older people in a ‘consensual’ relationship it is a sign of something wrong, trauma/depression/anxiety etc. It’s not normal for healthy children.
Hell if you did that to a legal adult it would be borderline. If you get someone really drunk and you’re not, then it cannot be consensual. People have been convicted of rape for exactly that.
I think Denmark just wants to try and keep their athlete but sometimes you just have to throw people away as been beyond redemption. And you certainly don’t lord them on the world stage. Denmark’s problem now is that they look bad, they look irresponsible, especially all the attempts to defend him which just make the situation worse.
Dude, you meant Dutch, not Danish?
odd how jk rowling and the “protect children” crew haven’t said his name once. it’s almost as if jk rowling is pro paedophilia.
Wtf?
He deserved the boos.
He deserves much worse than that imo. Especially since all he got was a year and now just a few years later he’s playing in the Olympics.
I would be trying to encourage chanting of pedophile.
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