• Perkelton@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Would be interesting to see exactly what the claims are. As I understand it, the agency is in fact sending them the plates. It’s the postal workers that refuse to deliver them, which is protected by the Swedish constitution and thus labelled as force majeure.

    • feurie@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      How does that constitute “sending them”?

      If I sold something on eBay but the guys at UPS won’t deliver it to you, it’s still on me to make sure it gets to you.

    • Ampersand55@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      A quote from the lawsuit (translated from Swedish):

      This seizure of license plates constitutes a discriminatory attack without any support in law directed at Tesla.

    • BuySellHoldFinance@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Would be interesting to see exactly what the claims are. As I understand it, the agency is in fact sending them the plates. It’s the postal workers that refuse to deliver them, which is protected by the Swedish constitution and thus labelled as force majeure.

      They are sending them through a service that is knowingly refusing to deliver them. And the Transportation Agency refuses to simply let Tesla pick them up.

      • CrateDane@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        They are sending them through a service that is knowingly refusing to deliver them.

        As opposed to using any other delivery service, where sympathy action could just as well happen. It’s not like the government deliberately picked a delivery company whose workers are hostile to Tesla.

        • BuySellHoldFinance@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          It’s not like the government deliberately picked a delivery company whose workers are hostile to Tesla.

          When they learned that the plates were not being delivered, they did not provide relief by letting Tesla pick up the plates at no cost to the Transportation Authority.

          • Aggressive-Apple@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            While it would have been easy for the agency to do so, making special arrangements for a company to help them circumvent a labor conflict can easily be interpreted as taking sides, so it is well understandable that the government agency threads carefully here. It can well be argued that doing nothing is the neutral action.

            My understanding is that today’s interim decision came before the defendant (the agency) was officially served or had answered the suit, so we don’t know what their arguments are really.

      • RedundancyDoneWell@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        They are sending them through a service that is knowingly refusing to deliver them.

        Yes, and to a layman like me, this is probably Tesla’s only possible legal standing.

        They will never have any success suing Postnord for their (employees’) actions during a work conflict. Not here in Scandinavia, where work conflicts are an accepted part of the game.

        But perhaps the government or the plate manufacturer can be legally forced to try to work around the force majeure situation caused by this conflict, so the plates must be shipped through alternative channels. Perhaps.

        • finrum@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          The plates are manufactured by the Swedish Transport Agency. They are obliged to deliver the plates through PostNord according to rules set by the government agency Kammarkollegiet (The Swedish Legal, Financial and Administrative Services Agency). As all agencies in Sweden, they work independently from the government. Therefore Tesla will have to take Kammarkollegiet to the Administrative Court, and if this happens, it will probably be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Administrative Court.

          This would probably take a couple of years.

          • Vitringar@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            And PostNord are notorious for loosing packages. They should be called BlackHoleNord because that is where objects go to disappear!

            • ElectricNed@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              Tesla can collect its license plates from the manufacturer Scandinavian Motorcenter. If the Swedish Transport Agency does not agree to it within seven days, a fine of one million kroner awaits, Norrköping district court decided on Monday afternoon.

              • It is true that there has been a decision in which they approve Tesla’s lawsuit, says lawyer Johannes Ericson to Aftonbladet.

              Via its Swedish law firm Setterwalls, Tesla submitted two lawsuits on Monday, against the Swedish Transport Agency and PostNord. In the lawsuit against the Swedish Transport Agency - which was submitted to the Norrköping district court - Tesla also demanded that, on an interim basis, i.e. temporarily, get the registration plates that the Swedish Transport Agency has forbidden the manufacturer Scandinavian Motorcenter to hand out directly to Tesla. Monday afternoon, the Norrköping District Court granted Tesla’s request:

              • Yes, it is true that there has been a decision in which they approve Tesla’s lawsuit, says lawyer Johannes Ericson at Setterwall’s law firm.

              What do they approve of?

              • They approve the interim request. They say that the Swedish Transport Agency must give consent for Tesla to pick up the license plates from the manufacturer of license plates. At a fine of SEK 1 million?
              • Exactly, that’s right. Within seven days. What do you think of the decision from the Norrköping District Court?
              • I have no comments regarding the decision. Tesla will be responsible for any comments regarding the decision, says Ericson.
            • finrum@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              This isn’t a verdict in the actual court case though, it’s only temporary.

              This won’t necessarily mean that Tesla will get their plates. Because I assume IF Metall has a presence at the number plate factory.

        • BuySellHoldFinance@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          But perhaps the government or the plate manufacturer can be legally forced to try to work around the force majeure situation caused by this conflict, so the plates must be shipped through alternative channels

          I believe all Tesla is asking is to be able to pick up the plates themselves.

          • eyeCinfinitee@alien.top
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, but that would be in violation of the Swedish postal workers collective bargaining agreement and thus illegal under Swedish law. The “solution” Tesla wants to a legal strike is to do illegal actions. Sweden isn’t the states. Tesla can play ball or get the fuck out

            • Schmich@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              /r/iamverybadass

              They have a right to try the court even if it gets thrown out. This is Sweden. Not some country without a judicial system.

            • Buuuddd@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              Tesla is already getting the plates. This ain’t Toys R Us they’re dealing with.

        • Buuuddd@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          Perhaps people have property rights, that unions can’t block in a fair country.

    • hackenstuffen@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      The postal workers work for a state-owned company - therefore it’s the state-owned company that is refusing to deliver the plates. This idea that the workers don’t represent the company is nonsensical.

      • You_Will_Die@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        The company operates as a for profit company without government intervention, they just own it together with the Danish state.

        And no it’s not nonsensical at all, what the fuck are you even implying? Are you also saying the striking Tesla workers are representing Tesla?

        • hackenstuffen@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          The fact that PostNord operates as a “for profit company” is irrelevant. It is a state-owned and state controlled company - there are only two owners, and one of them is the Swedish Government.

          The Tesla lawsuit is completely legitimate - the state-owned company is refusing to deliver license plates. PostNord - as the company - is responsible for its employees failing to carry out their duties, and doing so in a discriminatory way.

          “Are you also saying the striking Tesla workers are representing Tesla?” The correct analogy would be if Tesla employees selectively disabled the cars of people it didn’t like, say if PostNord or the US Postal Service had an all-Tesla mail fleet. Tesla would be held responsible for that - as they should be.

          Pro-union/Anti-Tesla commenters have invented/made-up/imagined a distinction between the actions of employees and the responsibility of the company.

          • You_Will_Die@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            The Tesla lawsuit is completely legitimate - the state-owned company is refusing to deliver license plates. PostNord - as the company - is responsible for its employees failing to carry out their duties, and doing so in a discriminatory way.

            You are just completely wrong and I think you are doing it on purpose. You know just as well as I do that the workers striking is not on the company. Sympathy strikes are completely legal as long as they only target the company they are striking against in Sweden. Tesla being the only company targeted is required for it to be legal. But somehow you are trying to turn that into an argument for why it is illegal. You are completely delusional or just paid by Tesla to spread misinformation. You can disagree all you want with how Sweden operates, that doesn’t change how the country works or how this situation will be solved.

            Pro-union/Anti-Tesla commenters have invented/made-up/imagined a distinction between the actions of employees and the responsibility of the company.

            Another delusional take which you don’t seem to understand would be needed to be applied at all situations. That includes the striking workers at Tesla. In your fantasy world those workers would represent Tesla as well. You can’t just spew shit and then selectively apply it in the situation where it favours your viewpoints.

            • hackenstuffen@alien.topB
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              1 year ago

              “You know just as well as I do that the workers striking is not on the company.”

              You keep reframing this to match your view. PostNord workers are not on strike. They are refusing to deliver mail to one recipient, but continuing to deliver mail to everyone else. That’s not a strike - there is a fundamental difference between a union striking against its employer and employees continuing to work normally except for one recipient of its services.

              As an aside, its interesting how quickly you went to the ad-hominem attacks. I mean right away, in your first post. Why is that?

              • ShitOnFascists@alien.topB
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                1 year ago

                You are using the US legal framework to understand a Swedish situation

                In much of Europe striking doesn’t limit to refusing to work, but can be refusing to do only certain tasks or refusing to do them only for a certain client

                In Sweden it is legal for the workers of a company to strike in sympathy with other workers at another company with the caveat that they can’t strike completely but can refuse to do work that would benefit the company the original strike was against

    • StrugglingSwan@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      It’s the postal workers that refuse to deliver them, which is protected by the Swedish constitution and thus labelled as force majeure.

      If this were true, it’s pretty scary.

      Regardless of anything to do with Tesla or any business, what if post office workers stopped delivering mail to Treta Grunberg because of an ethical issue.

    • tigole@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Not what the article said…

      The state-run transport agency turned down Tesla’s request to pick up the license plates itself and also declined to send them via distribution channels other than PostNord.

      • Swarna_Keanu@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Yes, but obviously the agency would stop being politically neutral about the strike if they’d treat Tesla different than other companies, in theory. They obviously don’t want to start to make exemptions to their administrative structures on the demands of a company.

        Given that no other company (other than Toys’r’us) did what Tesla did there’s no previous case to compare it, to. So - this will go through the courts.

        • TyrellCo@alien.top
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          1 year ago

          Although they decided to defend this by arguing the contract it has in place with the postal almost as if from business constraint as opposed to an administrative requirement.

          • Swarna_Keanu@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            State agencies have to seek the best offer for their contracts ever so often. They bulk deliver via one company that needs to win a bidding against other companies. Usually that means a company that signs a contract with a state agency trades some profits for the prime service contractor. The contract IS a business contract. But the state agency itself is bound by administrative requirements to get the best deal they can, whenever a previous time-based contract with a company has run out. Either side would be in breach of contract: PostNord if they’d stop delivering (they don’t - PostNord workers use their legally guaranteed right to strike); the agency if they’d suddenly breach the exclusive bulk postage contract they negotiated.

            I don’t think US state agencies operate that differently on that end? The difference is that workers in Sweden have rights that US workers don’t.

    • hackergame@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      which is protected by the Swedish constitution and thus labelled as horse manure.

      WHAT

    • Smart-Marketing4589@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      I mean the agency likely has a duty to ensure they’re received in a timely fashion though. The agency would likely have to step in to provide an alternative.