the oligarchs have it made in america
A coworker says that all the problems in Paris is because Hillary has sent Antifa to cause chaos…
More like people acting like idiots confusing protesting for looting.
media is only showing looting to gain sympathey for the right.
Because Americans literally do nothing as their form of protest. They allow the steamrolling to happen to protect their own vapid moral integrity.
Canadians might be worse in terms of doing nothing. The average Canadian in my experience can’t even imagine politics left of the NDP (our social democrats).
The slow slide to the right that’s just beginning here feels like it’s just a boring fact and not a struggle.
The treats will run out eventually
In case anyone would be down to come to the comments of a meme and leave with further reading: In Defense of Looting: A Riotous History of Uncivil Action by Vicky Osterweil
What makes anybody think an American who condemns the looting in France approves of everything that’s wrong in America?
Boot lickers tend to lick boots.
There are pros and cons, the violence and damage done in the French protests also make it easy for the rightwing to shatter solidarity among left and center voices. These protestors take the narrative the rightwing wants to push about the left and immigrants hook line and sinker without reflecting on the consequences of that, which is very very very very dangerous.
Rightwing fascists want nothing more than this to become a fist fight, it is the only environment their shitty politics can survive in because everyone is too distracted by the violence to actually interrogate what each side is saying and determine fascists are violent and full of shit.
You can criticize a protest like No Kings in the US for being wayyyy too deferential to the status quo, but you can also on the flipside point out that everyone who goes to a peaceful mass protest leaves knowing they are in the majority, and that a vast diversity of people have arrived at the same conclusion and desire to exert their will in a collective fashion that no significant percentage of the society resists in a rational way even if the power structures do.
Once you start throwing bricks at the cops and burning everything down you cut the potential for solidarity into two opposing sides which isn’t so say that ACAB isn’t true or that the pearl clutching around property damage isn’t insulting given the human suffering the protests are meant to illuminate but the vision of the social project becomes diminished once things enter that realm, you have a war at that point not a social movement.
All that being said, I don’t think the protestors are the problem, not even remotely, the inhuman conditions for the average person are the problem. I am also not trying to say a certain way of protesting is necessarily wrong, but this idea that we aren’t in a struggle of primarily narrative is a sure fire way to lose catastrophically as the left which to be honest France should be alot more cognizant about given their history than they seem to be…
We all know rightwing fascists need and deserve to be punched in the face, but if you lean into that unreflectively you make it easy for them to portray the situation as a tit for tat fight rather than an existential struggle against dehumanization.
Yep France will have a Nazi for president next year. These riots swayed many centrist voters. Like during the riots someone burned down historic buildings. One thing the French have in common is that they love their historic architecture. Though good chance some agent provacteur from Israel, US or Russia instigated it all.
The no kings protests in my area were like six people. And everyone driving by let them know how stupid they looked. Definitely not a majority.
Ok well that is your anecdote, the No Kings rallies have been some of the largest protests in US history and have approached the often quoted percentage of people necessary to ensure a successful social movement/revolution.
No Kings is run by the same Liberal organizations that support the Democratic party. They might as well be party sponsored events. Nothing will change when the Market liberal donkeys are in charge, besides the visibility of ICE.
And nothing of consequence happened, lol.
And nothing changed? The pedo is still ordering his goons to kill citizens, they’re trying to deport a member of Congress, and they’re perpetuating the war in the middle east (and a myriad of other stuff).
Where’s the line? When will the Americans do anything about it?
Spot on!
False dichotomy if there ever was one. The small businesses that are burned down or destroyed or emptied don’t have anything to do with the oligarchs or pedophiles, they are often neighbours of the looters. What have they done to deserve that? Sorry, looting them doesn’t further any good cause, indeed, it is just serving the narrative of the opposing side.
Some things to remember:
- Protests, riots are almost never monolithic and desperate people and local organized crime almost always takes advantage of the commotion.
- There are already reports of Police antagonists stirring up commotion in these.
- There is a very long history of far-right agitators trying to hijack and smear justifiable legitimate protests. Many examples from the 2020 BLM protests.
- Foreign adversaries – notably Russia – almost always seizes on these and has a hand in stirring up division.
So the fallacy is the assumption that the people committing the looting are the same people who originally set out to protest the following grievances:
- Severe under-funding of schools.
- Overcrowded classrooms and lack of air conditioning in excessively-hot climate.
- Teacher shortages and schedules.
To again reiterate, much of the time legitimate protests are hijacked by outside groups for their own ulterior motives (political optics, theft, etc.)
You think Russia agitates more than Israel or America, LOL?
It doesn’t matter who, the fact is the division and chaos is being amplified from outside.
That is objectively a good thing when we’re talking about the country that can’t stop itself from starting illegal wars of aggression and doing genocides across the world.
The fact that we’re even having these discussions shows how susceptible people are to this brand of propaganda. There people have the vote, the media and protests, remember that they will try to erode your faith in those institutions at every turn.
You moralizing about what is essentially an uncontrollable phenomenon, is serving the narrative of the opposing side. Nobody is in control of a riot by definition. All kinds of shit is gonna get fucked up. Focusing on individual incidents is falling into a trap that the ruling class lays for a credulous audience.
People plundering stores are very much in control of themselves, give me a break. I don’t blame anyone else for those actions than those who commit them.
I hate when people pull out this stupid straw man argument, “Think of the poor small businesses”. Small businesses in this country are all but non existent at this point, most of them have been forced to close their doors thanks to big chains like Walmart and Target. The closest we have to small businesses in most areas are franchisees from the big chain fast food restaurants.
Sorry, I thought this was relating to the French unrests. There is no Walmart in France. Have a look at the shops that were destroyed and then count how many of them are large chains and how many were local businesses.
“all but non existent”
Where in the US is that true?! The worst city in America for chain stores can’t quite hit 3 of 4. Almost every state has better than half of stores in the hands of small business.
“all but non existent”
Where in the US is that true?!
Eh, small businesses come in all sizes. There’s a dude in town that owns ~100 houses and rents them out. He’s a small business owner.
So is the Uber driver that delivers food to those houses.
If you own 100 pieces of residential real estate, you’re aren’t a small business, lmao.
Edit: also, uber drivers aren’t small businesses
That man is enough of a landlord that a molotov cocktail is probably justified in some way shape or form. That dude is part of the petit borgeousie for sure.
The guy driving for Uber and getting paid by them as his employer is not a small business owner. He’s a poor proletariat schmuck just like most of us.
On paper both are small business owners.
Most truckers are, too.One sixth of truckers are, too.They’re not. They’re not at all. What do you think a small business owner even is?
Someone that owns their own income generating property. I.e., a business. Which is small. Local definitions put that at either <500 employees or <7.5m operating revenue.
I was wrong though, only ~16% of truckers are small business owners. They’re the ones called “owner operators”. Because they own their own truck.
Technically, anyone filling out form 1099 come tax time is a small business owner.
I’m sure that guy that got kicked in the back of the head and has his video game store robbed gives a shit anymore and probably never will.
The business have insurances, and actually don’t loose at being attacked. Many even benefit of the insurance to renew their shop in a more modern way ; it is at the point police sometimes even doubt the shop owner may have asked to be a target. It can also be a good time to burn accountancy documents when some were a problem, and destroy those stock of merchandises they knew they could not sell (so insurance pay for them).
Yet for some it is a real moral pain to see their shop looted, of course…
That’s why all the small business owners are chiming in to cheer when their shops are torn to pieces and burned down!
Do you even hear yourself XD
Most of the times they find it boring, yes. Yet do you know one that has really lost something after the death of Nahel? In my town most burnt shops reopened fast, renewed, and more attractive than before.
And I can’t remember any casualties for shop owners, beside those who got caught trying to hide the bankruptie of their company as a riot burning (for insurance). Do you know some that had real (unsolved) problems because of riots?
The French need rooftop Koreans. :)
They need guns and a super Mario brother
As much as I like the roof Koreans, they would get firebombed if they were in France, the reason they worked in America was because Americans are pussys and when legit confronted with violence, they piss their pants and run away.
Won’t speak for you, but I’m not getting close enough to toss a Molotov cocktail at a man in an elevated position with a long gun. 😬 (Seriously, reread your comment and think out how that would work IRL.)
In a city envorment with tons of cover? see your clearly not thinking past your fear responce.
My only concerns and areas I consider off limits really are pharmacies and medical supply stores, medical places. Thinking on it a bit and ruminating, I can accept small businesses being looted if it provides incentive for the person to be upset with the state as well instead of the protests.
They should make sure to stop buy your house and loot it just to make sure you get the point 🙄
May I ask why you draw the line there?
It’s mostly been luxury stores that have been looted (at least from the reporting).
Yeah, most people think “wow, that guy has a great point, I never thought of it that way” when looters burn down their livelihood.
Oh, poor corporations!
What are you, some oligarch boot licker? We are descending into authoritarianism and you are endorsing oligarch talking points to discredit movements for reform.
Wow, that guy is burning down people’s livelihoods. That’s a great point, I never thought of it that way. Destroying private property is awesome. Thanks to this french contemporary looting artist I saw on TV, I realized I don’t have any property and I don’t give a shit when the bourgeoisie loses theirs. He really moved me.
pretend i have the digital image editing skills to combine these please:
spoliered because holy fuck that took up a lot of my screen
Reminds me of people that can look past concentration camps, murders carried out by ice, blatant corruption, bombing schools, and genocide but they draw the line at having to pay 2$ more for gas
They only care when it affects their daily lives. Fuck black, brown, trans, gay, and women for they are something entirely different than a white american man.
What murders has ice done? Maybe I’m just out of my the loop
Wooooow
This is a fucking joke, right?
There’s death and there’s murder. I’ve heard about deaths, I’m not aware of any murders but I have limited media access.
Oh your one of those padantic losers…
The losers who understand the difference between killing and murder? Yeah I’m one of those losers lol
Yes I’m glad you both understand and are ok with state sanctioned killing and regular murder, vary good.
Evil people should fear a good government and also good people. Yes that is a foundational belief. Governments have always used violence and for good reasons. People have also used violence against governments for good reasons. Yes sometimes violence is the appropriate response and I am prepared as necessary.
Apparently you aren’t, actually
What nationality are you, out of curiosity?
You mean which data center hosts them?
Since you won’t answer my question about nationality, im going to assume you’re from a “western” country, so your excuse of having limited media access is bullshit. You’re a fucking piece of trash if you think ICE hasn’t murdered people and are going to get into a hissy fit about the definitions. You’re fucking scum and deserve to be treated as such.
Mods, before you come deleting this comment for AbUsE, look at what this motherfucker is here commenting. Would you rather censor someone for calling someone a bad name, or for blatantly denying state sanctioned murders? Pick your hill to die on.
You could actually give some evidence of said murders. That’s all I asked for. Some people need real consequences for their bullshit. I wish we could do this face to face.
You are batshit fucking insane. The videos are out there for the world to see. Good shot in her car while driving away from the scene, not trying to hurt any of the officers, and Pretti literally knelt down in the street and executed in the back of the head. All filmed, all major major news that every “western” country saw.
I hope you get exactly what you deserve for being such a piece of shit human, and you deserve that absolute worst.
And those are just the white people lol. A ton of others have been executed but they were too brown for mass media coverage
Fuck you, Nazi scum.
You my friend are out of your mind
He’s not a friend, he’s fucking scum and deserving of being treated like it.
I find the looting and property damage stupid because there are plenty of Billionaires and Politicians to loot and property damage yet they primarily targeting cafes and shops.
Yeah…that’s not really possible?
Oligarchs are very well insulated, both physically and financially. The nice part of town isn’t full of billionaires. It’s full of doctors and lawyers and other professionals.
Even if you do manage to burn down a Walmart or something, chances are the financials are insulated enough that the Waltons won’t even see a drop in net worth.
One guy working alone found the United healthcare CEO. Imagine if 1000 worked together like they did to loot a small shop.
One guy with connections and the cash on hand to put together a plan and carry it out.
It’s not impossible. But even then, most CEOs aren’t billionaires. That one wasn’t. The people sitting on the board of directors and majority shareholders are the billionaires.
I’m sure theyed getting their buisnesses robbed as well.
It’s because it (typically) isn’t the political activists who are the ones looting. It is groups of criminals who just take advantage of the situation and the protestors are blamed.
And agent provocateurs sent to stir shit to discredit the movement and give the police an excuse to crack skulls.
And LePen’s campaign manager rubs his hands in satisfaction…
Small amount of looting? That has absolutely destroyed the livelihood of some of the small shop owners while also negatively affecting the local economies for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, mansions, multinational offices, and banks, y’know, the ones belonging to the supposed oligarchs pushing the ever-diminishing standards of living have remained untouched.
Face it, the protests have been hijacked by criminal opportunists with the barest facade of an excuse, and far from it being just “USians” condemning it, now every far-right social network in every part of the world pushed into the feeds by their respective Musks is taking advantage of the mayhem to associate it to their opposition and to top it off with a heavy dose of racism. Seeing Paris burned down by people who are students in facade only (and it’s easy to tell the rioters from the students actually protesting) has absolutely fed the growth of the far right across multiple countries while doing little to economically help anyone but the looters who help themselves.
Small amount of looting? That has absolutely destroyed the livelihood of some of the small shop owners while also negatively affecting the local economies for the foreseeable future
You’ll need to point out which small shops were looted, because from what’s been reported, it’s mostly luxury boutique stores.Nevermind, I saw the links you provided. Super unfortunate for the small shop owners
but also because msms are only choosing to show looting and framing it as the worst thing that happened.
Once more, only insurances lost some money. Shopowners will be fine. Their shop will be renewed with insurance money. It is not the first time such happens, last was about a year ago…
Maybe it will be renewed, maybe it won’t. Maybe they weren’t insured or maybe their claim will just be rejected. Anyway it sucks big time for those who had their property destroyed even if they get back every euro.
Not insured for such? I am not sure if it is possible here, but it would be totally stupid. The only cause of rejection would come from proof the shopowner was at the initiative of looting and burning (which is rarely the case, but happens).
That’s not how insurance works. It covers only a small part of the losses, and only for the shops that can afford the rising rates for a decent one.
Which shop hasn’t been covered by insurance after Nahel’s death?
Ironically enough, the big multinational shopping centers will be the ones most likely to recover. Half the businesses lacked loss of activity coverage, and there were plenty of them that had to wait half a year or more for any payout. Thinking there were no bankruptcies is ignorance beyond belief.
Just because you don’t see or care about owners having to pass down their businesses and just treat them like faceless stores doesn’t mean they aren’t forced to roll over. It’s like claiming who cares about riot police being violent with protestors when they can just go to the hospital.
You know how the economy is, and you are choosing to victim blame the riot victims if they are “stupid” enough not to be able to get back on their feet, no matter if they have literally nothing to do with what the protests are supposedly against. Just don’t be surprised when your rationale ends up with those shops eventually ending up in the hands of the large multinationals that can survive it and the society becomes even more dystopian.
I live in France, in a working class/poor side of town. During last riots (2023), some shops got looted and burnt, some only looted (and some fully spared). They were not multinationals, just local shops. All of them got rebuilt and renewed, or reimboursed of the stolen goods. None has closed. I care about them, they are the shops where I buy things.
I may check what international news say in their analysis ; but understand that it is not that easy to believe this time will be very different from the previous one, while the previous one was already as the one before it.
And no, violence toward humans isn’t the same as stealing from a shop, nor violence against goods. Should some hurt, even lightly, a shopowner, it would be a big thing in my opinion. Violences against material things aren’t that important, some may not be smart nor usefull ; some can be helpful for the cause.
Also, keep in mind that since at least 15 years, in France, the gouvernment won’t try to listen the people if there are no huge damages. So you may hate it, but that has became a rule. When a pacific dialog was possible, there were no riots here, just peaceful manifestations.
and it’s easy to tell the rioters from the students actually protesting
You’re this close, keep trying.
