There are pros and cons, the violence and damage done in the French protests also make it easy for the rightwing to shatter solidarity among left and center voices. These protestors take the narrative the rightwing wants to push about the left and immigrants hook line and sinker without reflecting on the consequences of that, which is very very very very dangerous.
Rightwing fascists want nothing more than this to become a fist fight, it is the only environment their shitty politics can survive in because everyone is too distracted by the violence to actually interrogate what each side is saying and determine fascists are violent and full of shit.
You can criticize a protest like No Kings in the US for being wayyyy too deferential to the status quo, but you can also on the flipside point out that everyone who goes to a peaceful mass protest leaves knowing they are in the majority, and that a vast diversity of people have arrived at the same conclusion and desire to exert their will in a collective fashion that no significant percentage of the society resists in a rational way even if the power structures do.
Once you start throwing bricks at the cops and burning everything down you cut the potential for solidarity into two opposing sides which isn’t so say that ACAB isn’t true or that the pearl clutching around property damage isn’t insulting given the human suffering the protests are meant to illuminate but the vision of the social project becomes diminished once things enter that realm, you have a war at that point not a social movement.
All that being said, I don’t think the protestors are the problem, not even remotely, the inhuman conditions for the average person are the problem. I am also not trying to say a certain way of protesting is necessarily wrong, but this idea that we aren’t in a struggle of primarily narrative is a sure fire way to lose catastrophically as the left which to be honest France should be alot more cognizant about given their history than they seem to be…
We all know rightwing fascists need and deserve to be punched in the face, but if you lean into that unreflectively you make it easy for them to portray the situation as a tit for tat fight rather than an existential struggle against dehumanization.
That’s a fascist’s secret : everything feeds into their narratives. If leftists aren’t a threat to fight with heavily armed cops, they are weaklings to ignore and trample over with heavily armed cops.
Radical politics will never please centrists. The trick is to ignore centrists and engage directly with people upset at the status quo. Give them something to believe in. Centrists will follow, as they always do, by definition. For radicals there is no such thing as bad publicity - every news story only serves to prove that they have impact.
Yep France will have a Nazi for president next year. These riots swayed many centrist voters. Like during the riots someone burned down historic buildings. One thing the French have in common is that they love their historic architecture. Though good chance some agent provacteur from Israel, US or Russia instigated it all.
Who says I’m American? Dumbass canuck, I’m Dutch and live in the Netherlands and we’ve seen France shift harder to the right every time these type of riots take place. France will be more like America after the presidential election next year when a Trump and Netanyahu loving Nazi takes the highest seat in office.
Retailleau the isreali is what France will have to look forward to if the left their can’t pull their heads out of their asses and offer solutions to Frances mounting debts without further dismantling their social security.
Also I assumed you were American because you sound like the cry baby lib failures that are all over the US there that just love pointing fingers when they repeatedly Fuck up and fail to do anything about their deteriorating nation, I have 0 simpathy for people who will not escalate when they are having their livelyhoods taken from them then have the gall to complain about it when nothing goes their way.
Ok well that is your anecdote, the No Kings rallies have been some of the largest protests in US history and have approached the often quoted percentage of people necessary to ensure a successful social movement/revolution.
And nothing changed? The pedo is still ordering his goons to kill citizens, they’re trying to deport a member of Congress, and they’re perpetuating the war in the middle east (and a myriad of other stuff).
Where’s the line? When will the Americans do anything about it?
If the US protested right now the way France is, it would result in law enforcement being given complete permission to be as violent as they want because the “violent” left has finally come that they have spent decades hammering over the US people’s heads about.
Doing something about it first and foremost means not handing power to the narratives your enemy existentially needs you to feed into to retain legitimacy amd justify lethal violence against you.
No Kings is run by the same Liberal organizations that support the Democratic party. They might as well be party sponsored events. Nothing will change when the Market liberal donkeys are in charge, besides the visibility of ICE.
There are pros and cons, the violence and damage done in the French protests also make it easy for the rightwing to shatter solidarity among left and center voices. These protestors take the narrative the rightwing wants to push about the left and immigrants hook line and sinker without reflecting on the consequences of that, which is very very very very dangerous.
Rightwing fascists want nothing more than this to become a fist fight, it is the only environment their shitty politics can survive in because everyone is too distracted by the violence to actually interrogate what each side is saying and determine fascists are violent and full of shit.
You can criticize a protest like No Kings in the US for being wayyyy too deferential to the status quo, but you can also on the flipside point out that everyone who goes to a peaceful mass protest leaves knowing they are in the majority, and that a vast diversity of people have arrived at the same conclusion and desire to exert their will in a collective fashion that no significant percentage of the society resists in a rational way even if the power structures do.
Once you start throwing bricks at the cops and burning everything down you cut the potential for solidarity into two opposing sides which isn’t so say that ACAB isn’t true or that the pearl clutching around property damage isn’t insulting given the human suffering the protests are meant to illuminate but the vision of the social project becomes diminished once things enter that realm, you have a war at that point not a social movement.
All that being said, I don’t think the protestors are the problem, not even remotely, the inhuman conditions for the average person are the problem. I am also not trying to say a certain way of protesting is necessarily wrong, but this idea that we aren’t in a struggle of primarily narrative is a sure fire way to lose catastrophically as the left which to be honest France should be alot more cognizant about given their history than they seem to be…
We all know rightwing fascists need and deserve to be punched in the face, but if you lean into that unreflectively you make it easy for them to portray the situation as a tit for tat fight rather than an existential struggle against dehumanization.
I criticize them for being too small, too infrequent and too short a duration.
…and I criticize the France protests for feeding directly into fascist narratives that appeal to centrists in such a blatantingly stupid way.
Both are valid lines of criticism shrugs
That’s a fascist’s secret : everything feeds into their narratives. If leftists aren’t a threat to fight with heavily armed cops, they are weaklings to ignore and trample over with heavily armed cops.
Radical politics will never please centrists. The trick is to ignore centrists and engage directly with people upset at the status quo. Give them something to believe in. Centrists will follow, as they always do, by definition. For radicals there is no such thing as bad publicity - every news story only serves to prove that they have impact.
Why do you think that the heavily armed cops lose when they have actual enemies to focus their violence that require their skills?
Yep France will have a Nazi for president next year. These riots swayed many centrist voters. Like during the riots someone burned down historic buildings. One thing the French have in common is that they love their historic architecture. Though good chance some agent provacteur from Israel, US or Russia instigated it all.
You just so badly want places to end up like america so you can feel better about your own inaction, pathetic.
Who says I’m American? Dumbass canuck, I’m Dutch and live in the Netherlands and we’ve seen France shift harder to the right every time these type of riots take place. France will be more like America after the presidential election next year when a Trump and Netanyahu loving Nazi takes the highest seat in office.
Retailleau the isreali is what France will have to look forward to if the left their can’t pull their heads out of their asses and offer solutions to Frances mounting debts without further dismantling their social security.
Also I assumed you were American because you sound like the cry baby lib failures that are all over the US there that just love pointing fingers when they repeatedly Fuck up and fail to do anything about their deteriorating nation, I have 0 simpathy for people who will not escalate when they are having their livelyhoods taken from them then have the gall to complain about it when nothing goes their way.
The no kings protests in my area were like six people. And everyone driving by let them know how stupid they looked. Definitely not a majority.
People demonstrate.
Chill man, it’s Missouri—anyone showing out is impressive.
Ok well that is your anecdote, the No Kings rallies have been some of the largest protests in US history and have approached the often quoted percentage of people necessary to ensure a successful social movement/revolution.
And nothing changed? The pedo is still ordering his goons to kill citizens, they’re trying to deport a member of Congress, and they’re perpetuating the war in the middle east (and a myriad of other stuff).
Where’s the line? When will the Americans do anything about it?
If the US protested right now the way France is, it would result in law enforcement being given complete permission to be as violent as they want because the “violent” left has finally come that they have spent decades hammering over the US people’s heads about.
Doing something about it first and foremost means not handing power to the narratives your enemy existentially needs you to feed into to retain legitimacy amd justify lethal violence against you.
And nothing of consequence happened, lol.
No Kings is run by the same Liberal organizations that support the Democratic party. They might as well be party sponsored events. Nothing will change when the Market liberal donkeys are in charge, besides the visibility of ICE.