Drugs feel amazing. Getting high is like the fucking grand canyon, one of the things in life that lives up to the hype. Doing drugs makes you happier than you thought you could be, and there are a lot of people who don’t have a lot of reasons to be happy.
We shouldn’t pretend that drugs are bad, mm-kay. Drugs are awesome. That’s the problem. They’re too awesome. It’s an awesome overload, and you end up not wanting to do anything except for drugs.
People who do drugs are not evil. They’re having fun, experiencing new things, making friends and bonding over shared experiences. You tell a bunch of kids that drugs will ruin their lives, and then somebody at a party passes them a joint or offers them a bump of coke, they’re going to realize you were full of shit.
Like, let’s say that there was some weird flesh-eating bacteria that was specifically found only on water slides, but only on a few water slides. Now it’s your job to convince all the children of the world to avoid water slides, because of the small possibility of bacteria. It’s a serious problem, and it would be correct to tell everyone to avoid all waterslides everywhere, even if only a small percentage of waterslide riders died horrible deaths. So you tell people waterslides might kill you or maim you in excruciating ways. But if you act like waterslides aren’t fun, you lose all credibility. Most people who ride the waterslides don’t die, and they go on to tell everyone how much fun they had on waterslides, and that doesn’t make them bad people.
It is about distinguishing addictive and damaging drugs from useful medicines with a low chance of addiction. You are not going to convince me that the majority of people that have used meth or crack are fine. Where as weed or lsd I would.
I will!
The majority of people that have used meth or crack are fine.
Now, don’t get me wrong: meth is fantastically addictive. It’s the most physically addictive drug there is, as far as I’m aware. And the fantastically high addiction rate for first-time users of meth is: roughly 30%.
70% of people who try the most addictive drug in the world don’t get addicted, and go on to do other things like play tennis or do their taxes or switch to weed instead.
I am not just talking about addiction, I am also referring to the physiological damage it does.
While it’s possible to cause significant damage from a single overdose I don’t think it is likely from trying something at a sensible dose once. Most of the time the damage addicts have is done through repeated heavy use.
Also, afaik, alot of the damage done by things like meth and heroin are side effects. Like meth gives you psychosis and brain damage from staying up for days and not eating any food. The long term effects of meth, like a rotting mouth and permanent chemical imbalances can take years to manifest. If you want an example see people who take Adderall for years. Heroin similarly stops you from getting proper nutrition because all you want is heroin and it can give you brain damage from a lack of oxygen, which is a side effect of getting really close to overdosing.
As you’ve said, most people (at the very worst a whopping 70%) try these drugs and continue with their life without getting addicted. It’s very dangerous to stigmatize them cause all it does is make people afraid of getting treatment.
He right I ded a mef ones time only and my brain brokeded
Trying drugs once rarely does any psychological or physiological damage after one or even a few uses.
There are few cases where taking certain drugs will trigger the start of people already prone to things like schizophrenia… But it takes a while for legit psychological and physical addiction with few exceptions. Even with the most addictive drugs there are.
Tried meth once. Felt like Adderall. I could see why people abuse it, but I didn’t feel the need.
That’s cause Adderall is meth.
Or meth adjacent. I don’t know the chemistry.
Adderall is amphetamine, the base compound.
Meth is methamphetamine, amphetamine with a methyl group attached to it, so it’s very closely related to Adderall. That small change makes it a bit more potent, longer lasting and euphoric though.
But meth can also get prescribed for ADHD and narcolepsia (under the brand name ‘Desoxyn’) in very rare cases where even Adderall doesn’t seem to do the trick. So basically, both substances can be used therapeutically and they both can fuck up your life if you start abusing them, with meth admittedly being more potent and dangerous than regular amphetamine.
While there is some credence to this example, we all know chemistry does not work like this. For example, H2O, very good, essential for all life. H2O2, not so much.
Yep. I had an Adderall Rx for years prior, felt almost identical. But I also swallowed it, didn’t smoke or inject it.
If we’re just assuming stuff based on vibes then caffeine is meth too.
No it’s fucking not.
And this kind of thinking is why the local cops raided a clinic my town and why doctors in my town are now scared to prescribe it.
This is what happens when people stigmatize and demonize legal meds that actually help folks who genuinely need it.
Cops raided a pharmacy because they needed a fix. Foia the body cam footage if they got them.
nah, you’re the wrong here buddy
I take it myself and have done so for 10+ years, and know the chemistry of it. It’s in the same tree, but it’s absolutely not meth.
If it were meth, it’d be called meth.
Adderall is not meth, but it’s still a form of speed/amphetamine and is still addictive to some neurotypical people. Maybe not as addictive or dangerous, but very much in the same category.
The reason ADHD people don’t get addicted is because of their altered neurology and the doses it’s prescribed at.
In fact actual meth is sometimes prescribed to ADHD patients in small doses. It’s called Desoxyn.
Because ADHD stimulants are forms of methamphetamines.
The umbrella term is amphetamines. And not all ADHD stimulants are amphetamines, as there’s also methylphenidate (ritalin) which is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor kinda like cocaine, except for majority of people a lot less enjoyable.
Yea, plus many people addicted to that shit end up doing bad things, Rob, steal, sell to kids, etc.
Sometimes, but not all of them.
And generally, addiction is other issues that we as a society could help with before it becomes those issues.
That’s the same with heroin. At some point you’re addicted as hell and have no money left, so what do you do to get that relief from it again? Prostitute yourself, steal stuff and sell it, rob someone. This is literally an endless cycle. You become more addicted so you have to make more money. Since drug addiction imposes a high risk of losing your job and house you have to become somewhat criminal. The only ways out of this are either 1:dying from the drugs, 2: being able to get off of them(what often is literally impossible without help and even if you manage it without a stable living situation(house, job which both are hard to find as an ex drug addicted homeless person) its not unlikely that you start using them again) or 3: finding a place where you can get them for free. One of these places exists in Berlin where heroin addicted can get free medical grade heroin for free.
a more accurate analogy would be toxic chemicals in the waterslides that build up in the body, that takes a while to be expelled out
It’s more complex than this even. Not all drugs are that toxic. In fact some of the most addictive aren’t even that toxic at all like heroin. It’s things like addiction, overdose, lack of clean supply, and the side effects that make it dangerous.
Even ones that are destructive to the body aren’t always because of the chemicals they leave behind. Take meth for example: it’s bad because of how much strain and immediate damage it causes, not long lived toxins. In small doses it’s reasonably okay and is even prescribed by doctors sometimes. At amounts addicts do with the regularity they do them the damage builds up faster than it can be repaired by the body. MDMA, Amphetamine, Ketamine, and cocaine are similar here I believe.
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, I mainly know about drugs from doing them and researching them online.
Would it not make them bad people if waterslides were that dangerous? They wouldn’t be lying, but they would be encouraging people to endanger themselves.
If there are even a few water slides that dangerous, then all water slides are potentially dangerous.
This is the literal actual real world thing right now. Despite the few waterslides that are dangerous, there are plenty of actual waterslides in operation.
So, demonizing drugs is actually a bad idea, and this thread continues to prove it.
Feels like a kurzgesagt summary to me
They did a piece on nicotine a while back that opened with how amazing it is followed by how it fucks up your body over time.
Fantastic analogy and a good read. I’ve had a lot of experience with these bad drugs at various points in my life and I regret none of it.
Drugs are honestly pretty meh. I’m not saying they can’t be fun and or that they are evil or anything, but I feel like you are seriously overhyping them.
I used to a lot of drugs and lots of different kinds too. Sure I had fun and I don’t massively regret it. But since I quit all drugs (including alcohol) several years ago I really have to say there are plenty of other things in life that are just as fun as drugs, if not much more so. There’s only so much you can experience with drugs and it gets old fast.
I have no words almost…
But your little declaration somehow perversly juxtapositions the odd 100 000 deaths from drug overdoses in the US alone last year.
Are you offended by this? Seriously asking?
Yes, since it’s such an awfully negligent way of thinking.
I’d worry some poor young soul listening to the type of ‘adult individual’, falling into a fentanyl addiction, for example, thinking it ‘fun and safe’ forever ruining their life.
I think this person probably was referring to lesser drugs such as cannabis or cocaine. Lumping them all together is the problem.
I mean, did you look at the post? Smoking meth isn’t exactly better…
Found the druggie
Found the guy that skim reads a comment and then draws a silly conclusion.
I read & deeply comprehended the whole entire thing. It was excellently written and insightful and I am sincerely happy for people who can enjoy drugs responsibly and it does not interfere with their productive lives,
I have friends who enjoy mushrooms and LSD and alcohol and cigarettes and cocaine and abusing things like Adderall and Vyvanse and they all seem a hell of a lot happier than I am, but I just don’t want anything to do with it because
take my perspective for what it’s worth, I am a complete teetotaler, the only thing I put in my mouth or my body are nutritious foods, water, and prescription medication. In my childhood the fear of death was put into me regarding drugs, and my dad was an alcoholic and then he turned to cocaine and it all freaked me out, the way cocaine changed my dad was terrifying and has left me forever unstable, and I listened to Nancy Reagan when she said “say no to drugs” and I am permanently in that mindset, for better or for worse.
This is the comment that you should have written, not a silly meme comment.
It’s a troll account.
Why did you say that? Explore my profile.
No-one wakes up and decides that they’re going to get addicted to drugs today. Your life has typically been in a real shit place for a long time and it’s a “fuck it” type situation.
You don’t usually see happy and wealthy people getting addicted to crack.
I knew at least one kid in high school who was told that weed was as bad as heroin. Then he saw his friends doing weed and everything seemed fine. So then he did weed and everything seemed fine. Then he started asking about heroin.
this is the problem with bullshitting around prohibition. if you feel like people lied to you about weed, they could have been wrong about heroin too.
“What’s that old saying? ‘Beer before liquor, never sicker… Don’t do heroin.,’” -Bojack Horseman
You don’t usually see happy and wealthy people getting addicted to crack.
Cocaine though. Same drug, different package
Yup. Wealthy people do get addicted to drugs like cocaine, they just often have enough wealth to either still die wealthy or last long enough to get rehab.
You don’t have to be depressed to use drugs, just curious and looking for more life experiences.
My experiences being around people with cocaine have been at two opposite spectrums: people with shit lives that want a release, and people with families/wealth/opportunities that want a release.
The latter experience for me was an office Christmas party. We shared an office with a law firm, and one guy with a wife, two kids, and what I’d assume is a solid six-figure salary had two keys worth, several joints, several beers, and whatever he was smoking from a pipe in the toilets.
It might not be an addiction, but it’s definitely used by wealthy people. Hell, if the rumours about Musk are true, the dude is on all sorts of illegal shit all the time…
His shit isn’t illegal. He has his doctor prescribe whatever high quality shit he wants. It’s only illegal when YOU do it.
Nah, pretty sure there’s no prescription for meth or cocaine.
There certainly is for meth (for treatment-resistant ADHD), but iirc cocaine’s only medical use is during certain dental procedures, it’s not something you can be prescribed to take home
Huh, I thought only other amphetamines like Adderal were available for prescription. TIL.
It is very rarely prescribed, basically only if ritalin and a high dose of Adderall both fail to help.
Or if you’re rich and have a doctor who will prescribe whatever you want, presumably
What?. Explain celebrities overdosing then
not all of them are happy
I smoked some opium once when I was travelling and it was possibly the most pleasant experience of my entire life. Shortly after that I was left alone in a hostel room with someone who was dying from an overdose on it, which was possibly the most unpleasant.
Unless your opium was laced with heroin or fent, I am pretty suspect about this claim… you would have to smoke an obscene amount of opium to OD on it.
I smoked it, the other guy injected. Thanks for reviving this old thread though.
No idea how I ended up here hahaha. Also I’m sorry for saying I doubt you. Injecting opium is a super bad idea. Smoking it is incredible (and it smells and tastes amazing too!)
Yeah, if it didn’t have such a reputation for being moreish I would probably dabble! I have enough going on with other stuff though.
We both know this is made up. Opiate overdose victims just go unconscious and their heart rate slows down to nothing. Then again I’m arguing with someone who thinks traveling is spelled with two ls despite spell check being present literally everywhere.
insults someone for their spelling mistake
fails at simple reading comprehension
heh, oops!
Oops what? What is really terrible for them? Poor soul has to be in the same room as someone who is literally losing their life quietly?
oops for you, because in your comment you come off haughty and dumb. Happens to all of us though, no big deal.
Huh, to me you come off like an idiot. That’s so weird. Haughty? Give me a break, I can’t make this shit up 🤣
That’s totally cool with me, I am absolutely a dumb idiot.
Difference is I don’t go around correcting people’s spelling to make them feel stupid.
That’s because you have a life. Get back to it loser 🥹
Sorry some of us have empathy. You ever been in a room with someone dying an early death? Also thinking something is invalid because of spelling mistakes is incredibly childish.
Yeah I’ve been to prison twice and seen it plenty. Someone overdosing on opium is definitely a stretch. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say but who cares? Fuck yo couch and their strange spelling ninja
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No! Wait, please don’t go!
I think they were saying it was unpleasant for them, not the person dyIng.
I know… what’s unpleasant about someone passing out? They aren’t screaming or convulsing or puking
What’s unpleasant about someone dying next to you? I dunno. Must be a people-with-decency thing.
Right, it was all about them…not the person dying. How silly of me!
I mean, if you know they’re dying that would be pretty unpleasant.
Meh I guess it depends on who… amirite
travel (verb) traveled or travelled; traveling or travelling
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should
Then again I’m arguing with someone who thinks traveling is spelled with two ls despite spell check being present literally everywhere.
You do realize other countries exist other than the US, right? Travelling is correct pretty much everywhere outside the US.
None that matter. Does it sound like I care? Any other revolutionary ideas you want to share encyclopedia Brown?
Wow, you’ve been here for a year and you’re a flaming asshole for much of your post history. How have I not blocked you yet? Will rectify that now.
Great idea. Have done that too.
Please don’t
I can smell this comment.
Smells like straight up natural light and cocoa butter… hints of gunpowder and body odor
Incorrect this time old bean, sorry. It did happen.
Or hapen, if you prefer.
Pics or it nevar hopened blody wankar
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Plz I need halp! Can I borrow a dollar plzzzzz!!
Why are people like this? Shit life syndrome. What do we do with them? Offer them compassion and support.
Or sometimes they already have a good life (house, kid, spouse, dogs, x2 cars and stable support) and instead they decide to burn it all down in favor of a two-week crack bender. She drained our bank account, caught a DV charge and we are now divorced, thank fuck.
Hey man. I am really sorry for you. Was there any indication to why the substance abuse started?
Equal parts narcissism, bad company, deteriorating mental health and poor decisions. I had a whole thing typed up, but I’ve aired this shitshow elsewhere before. The short version is she has been a problem at every job she ever held, so she opened her own bakery and proceeded to drive it into the ground within about six months. She hung out with some shady people who did shady things, and got wrapped up in her own wants and desires. She eventually walked out (after hitting me on camera) when I wouldn’t give her my car so she could go “work” (i.e. swing by her crack dealer’s place). She stayed away voluntarily for about a week or two before I found out about the crack usage; after that I told her she couldn’t come back and filed a police report for the domestic battery in order to protect myself and our son from her. Took me a while to admit to myself that I was stuck in an abusive relationship for 15+ years.
Thanks for sharing. Hope you and your son are in a better situation now.
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Well, you can have all the things you listed as being part of a ‘good life’ and still be in an awful relationship, or have problems that need dealing with. I’m not sure I’d brag quite like that about abandoning someone in a mental health crisis. Its at least sad isnt it?
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Like I said, its at least sad on some level. Sad things couldn’t work out, sad that she couldn’t manage to fix her problems before her loved ones had enough, sad for any kids involved.
You can be justified in leaving and it still be sad. We can have compassion for those that we feel have wronged us, and oftentimes over time perspectives change.
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Sorry to be so negative there though, not really my intention.
I’m glad you found strength to break such an important relationship when it was too much. What’s the airplane thing? Put on your mask before you help anyone else.
Anyways hope things have improved in your life.
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She abused me for 15+ years. I feel no sympathy for her.
Why is the phrase “shit life syndrome” so funny to me? 😂
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5 second orgasm
I feel terrible for anyone whose orgasms last five seconds…
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The worst thing about Shit Life Syndrome is how contagious it is. And you’re almost assured to pass it on to your children.
It says a lot about life broadly that any time we invent or devise some kind of system or chemical for eliminating pain, that substance instantly becomes so addicting that we can no longer manage life at all and it has to be regulated and locked away for our own good.
Life is pain. Even if you’ve gone numb to it, every moment hurts in one way or another. You just might not ever notice it until you experience the alternative.
I think this is what anti-natalists are going on about, that life is more painful than joyous, don’t bring more conscious beings into it.
I understand that premise, but I’d argue that there is more good than bad in life, that while the universe may not care about any of us, there are plenty of genuinely beautiful moments out there, even just walking around your local park.
Death is certain, maybe some should be permitted to exit life early, but there’s gotta be a way to show people nature’s beauty. I don’t really know where to go with this comment in truth. I just hope people in pain find genuine solace.
Privileged, ignorant take by this anon. If you get REALLY down bad sometimes relief in any form is enough. Anybody’s who’s been there knows what I mean, anybody who hasn’t should count their lucky stars and try to.
There’s no shortage of people who refuse to understand addiction. “Why don’t you just…” “All you have to do is stop.” Plus equate the addiction and not stopping as weakness and failure. IMO those with that POV are talking to polish their own moral superiority and aren’t at all interested in the factors surrounding addiction.
The real amusing part of that is there’s a very good chance that those people who don’t understand are very likely addicted to something legal like booze or caffeine. Hell try anyone to try quitting caffeine and they’ll see how much it sucks.
That’s entirely possible. It also leads to the discussion between socially acceptable addictions and those that aren’t. People seem to be “more ok” with addictions that at least offer the veneer of the individual being in control.
People seem to be “more ok” with addictions that at least offer the veneer of the individual being in control.
Dunno. Alcohol creates more danger to everyone than most of banned drugs. And people still ok with it.
Yup, and this is a huge part of why I don’t consume caffeine in any meaningful amount (other than a random soda every so often). I had a friend who was addicted in middle school and tried to quit, and had to go back to drinking soda because of the headaches.
I don’t want anything to have any meaningful control over me, so I actively avoid anything addicting. The most addictive thing right now. for me is video games, so I’ve set some rules for myself: no MMOs, generally avoid MP games, no mobile games (outside emulators). I don’t drink, smoke, etc, and I prefer to manage pain without Rx (definitely avoiding opiates).
I’ve seen far too many lives get ruined through addiction. In fact, one of my life goals is to volunteer at a charity to help people kick addiction to consumerism (I’d love to help people get out of debt).
Addiction sucks, and I highly recommend others to be honest about their addictions and work to kick them. If you want some more motivation, volunteer at a soup kitchen or something and talk to the people there, many if not most got there through addiction, and a lot of them had a career before everything spiraled out of control. Don’t let that happen to you.
and had to go back to drinking soda because of the headaches.
It’s most likely from not having enough sleep. Usually lack of sleep correlates with consumption of caffeine(no shit, Sherlock), but caffeine is usually not root cause for it. Usually it is external source of stress like school.
I’ve seen far too many lives get ruined through addiction. In fact, one of my life goals is to volunteer at a charity to help people kick addiction to consumerism (I’d love to help people get out of debt).
Good human. No, good citizen.
Caffeine is not a good example, no one talked about the negative effects for a long time, they even promote it for the benefits and is extremely common in soda.
I quit caffeine over a year ago. I still think about it almost every day. Every day I’m so tired, and I think, “there’s an easy fix for this, just give me a cup of half-caf.” It’s never an option for me to think, no, I’m done with that. I always just tell myself, “you can have it next month if you still need it then” Addictions suck.
Theres a lot of us who are this way because we’ve had to deal with the fallout of the damage those with addictions problems have. It’s not black and white, I’ve gone through a similarly fucked up life as my family members who fell into addiction
My comment has nothing to do with the damages caused by addicts to those around them. You’re right, it’s not black and white, and that’s one of the major issues about addiction vs the people who can’t/wont understand it from the outside. “All you have to do is…” is a cry of frustration and maybe even a defense against the damage caused by the addict. Yeah, they did the damage, no getting around that, and that’s a personal issue that I’m in no way qualified to make suggestions as to how to mend - if at all.
I’m absolutely not trying to detract from or minimize what you experienced, but neither can I offer an exception in your case that it changes how addiction works, and also I am in no way trying to be an apologist for the addict. It’s a shit situation. If it were easy we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Fair enough, I can agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here tbh
Hope things work out for you eventually and don’t remain unsettled. Sounds like you had some shit to deal with.
Eh, its in the past. The fact that I distrust addicts now doesnt impact my ability to empathize, it just means I personally wont be the one helping them. Thank you for your own empathy though
Fwiw you’re probably right about trusting addicts, they have to fix themselves first.
There’s no shortage of people who refuse to understand addiction.
The question was why people CREATE addictions. Not why people are addicted.EDIT: Derp. “Why are people like this and what’s to be done with them”. This is opposite of refusing understanding addiction. Translation from 4chanian to English: “Why the problem exists and how to solve it”.
Tbh it’s hard to understand for people that have never been addicted for “real”.
Absolutely. But empathy plays a part in our lives. We can try to understand a lot of things our fellow humans experience, but unfortunately when it comes to mental health/addiction, people seem to stop wanting to understand.
Might also be worth noting how DARE made every drug into the Drug That Kills You Instantly. Cocaine instantly causes your heart to explode. Heroin immediately turns your into a vegetable. Weed is a “gateway drug” that’s laced with every other drug at once. Bath Salts are causing people to eat each other’s faces off.
How many interactions with actual drug users does it take to disabuse you of these notions? The high performing athlete who smokes weed. The kids doing whip its at the concert who look like their having a great time. Fucking gym rats doing steroids and getting swole as hell. The older folks doing oxy and heroin so they can bust through pain and pull an insane shift. The college kids using amphetamines to study through the day and party through the night.
It’s not as though drugs don’t have very immediate and obvious benefits. People aren’t doing them because they want to become washed up stereotypes.
Exactly. DARE and related programs aren’t doing anyone any favors because once you try one of those drugs, you’ll realize they’re really overselling how dangerous they are.
Don’t get me wrong, drugs are dangerous and many people get sucked into career-ending addiction. But anti-drug advocacy should be very honest about both the benefits and the negatives, as well as alternatives if you’re looking for some benefits (e.g. regular exercise can increase energy levels a lot).
I’m in favor of legalizing most recreational drugs, which should make dosage way more predictable (no more ODs) and detect warning signs before things spiral. I’d like to legalize and tax drugs, and use the tax proceeds to fund rehab programs. Start with weed and shrooms, and expand to whatever is most popular.
Bath Salts are causing people to eat each other’s faces off.
What? Is it something I don’t understand?
An oblique reference to the Miami Cannibal Attack which police claimed was the result of the assailant being “high on bath salts” at the time of the incident. Toxicology failed to corroborate the claim, but it stuck in the anti-drug media and became a recurring urban legend of sorts that DARE officers would repeat to credulous kids.
Couldn’t agree with this more.
Also a lot of people who end up getting hooked on drugs first try it when they are young, they still have developing brains and its harder to make long term impact decisions.
I’ve known people who have been addicted to some kind of street narcotic. They stopped when they got away from their bad relationship and improved their life.
It’s not about what will happen later, it’s about dealing with what is here and now, it’s a form of escapism. Not every case, mind you, but many.
Life sucks, and if you have/know/love people, and get the same in return, it sucks less. There’s a reason to keep going. People who end up addicted to harmful, hard, narcotics and other street drugs are generally in situations that they don’t know how to handle and just want to not feel the way they do now. Sometimes what they’re feeling is depression and hopelessness, or something similar. Imagine going from worried about everything, stressed out of your mind, depressed and suicidal, to complete careless bliss in minutes because you took a drug.
I’m not endorsing drug use, at all. Drugs (specifically street drugs) are not the answer. You’ll feel better while your life implodes and you won’t care that your spouse left or that you just lost your house, job and friends, because you’re so high that you can’t feel the sadness from these things happening. They’ll make you feel like a winner while you lose everything, and you’ll be blissfully ignorant of the truth. The drugs just fucked your life right up.
Bluntly, people are suffering through so much by the time they turn to drugs that they are looking for any relief for the constant pain and suffering they go through every moment of every day. They need help. They either get it from society/friends/family, or they get it from whatever drug they can score to help them get through it.
They then end up addicted and it begins a cycle of violence that is difficult to stop. They need help, friends, family, understanding, patience and time to get better, and often what they get is demeaned, kicked aside, thrown in jail, abandoned and disowned; all of which makes them go deeper into the gaping black hole of drug use.
I don’t have the answer to fix this situation. I never claimed I did, but I hope that someone reading this understands the psychology of addiction a little better after reading it. I am, by no means, a doctor or specialist. I’ve just observed the recovery first hand, and spoken to people who have gone through it. What I’ve said here is the culmination of the discussions I have had with people who have lived it. I’m certain there are other versions of this kind of story, leading to addiction (and hopefully out of it). My take away is that drugs are not a cause, they’re an effect. The cause is sometimes mental health related, or it could just be shit luck. Either way, you don’t choose to get addicted to drugs, you feel like you need to take drugs to deal with life, and addiction just happens as a consequence of that. I firmly believe in social programs for welfare/income assistance (including UBI), and social programs for drug rehab. All of which should be provided as a societal benefit. If people can get the mental and financial help they need, when they need it, I believe we can prevent a lot of people from turning to drugs to deal with their problems. We can avoid people becoming homeless and incapable of benefiting society. Reducing crime, and reducing suffering universally throughout our society.
I also believe that there’s always going to be “junkie scum” that would rather take UBI to cover the bills while they rot away at home, in what quickly becomes a drug den. I believe the people who are actual junkie scum that would do that while having free access to resources to turn their life around, is pretty small. I think that the vast majority of people want to live a life they can be proud of, and will do so if given the chance.
The core problem is that they’re not given that chance. They go right from being under their parents wing to being thrown face first in the dirt and told to pick themselves up “by their bootstraps” and figure it out, by people who hold more money than they’ll ever earn. We should be ashamed that drug use is as high as it is. To me, it indicates a massive gap in how much we actually care about our fellow humans. That somehow, if they can’t do anything that we find useful, when we find it useful for someone to do that, then they’re not worthy of living. That’s why it’s called “earning” a living, because if you don’t earn it, then you don’t deserve to live. IMO, that’s callous and cruel.
I was tossed to the rigors of society in my late teens, I won’t get into the circumstances, but I narrowly avoided getting into a situation where I would become an addict. I never realized, when I was in that situation, that I was literally a bad payday away from being homeless, jobless, junkie scum. Only for the love and support of a few, did I manage to get through the hardest of times and earn a living. Not everyone is so lucky.
I agree with everything except for when you say that you’ll feel like a winner while you loose everything. You actually know just how fucked up everything is and you feel like a fucking loser piece of shit but you can’t stop. You don’t feel like a winner. You feel like you’re losing everything and it’s extremely painful and you feel like you can’t do anything to stop it. The drugs barely make it any better eventually and then you’ve even lost that.
That’s fair. I take some liberties with it because I don’t have information to fill in the gaps.
That’s on me.
Yeah I’ve come to a lot of those same conclusions. And one thing I’ve struggled to convince people of is that calling addicts scum doesn’t help them quit. Yes they need to want to quit in order to quit, but they need to believe the pain of quitting will be worth it and that they deserve to be sober. I’ve never heard of someone hating themselves and being so ostracized they get sober. It’s when they find something or someone worth quitting for or decide they deserve to turn their life around.
I had the happy experience of being someone’s reason to quit.
I didn’t know that was happening at the time, they told me afterwards, but it was a nice thing to find out.
That was awesome to read. I loved your perspective and compassion!
I’m not American, but you’d you’d make a great president, right now…
Thanks, however, I cannot be president.
I was not born in the USA, nor do I even live there. I’m Canadian and our politics and country overall is heavily influenced by what’s going on in America, so I tend to have relevant opinions on all sorts of issues that affect both countries.
I feel like you’re really letting the details get in the way of a potentially very fruitful adventure…
(in China) “yo, check this out, and if you get caught with some, it’s straight to jail, too. Or even better, death penalty if you’re carrying enough!”
Says something about your daily life when this isn’t enough of a deterrent :/
These kind of MFs usually be like “Don’t do the illegal drug that will destroy your life, do the legal one! Ethanol comes under many street names, like beer, whiskey, wine, etc.”
(I’m against prohibition, I just like to point out these MFs hypocrisy, especially when the booze is kind of subsidized by the state due to it being a “national treasure”.)
Yes, and many naive young people don’t really understand the fine lines between fun illegal party drugs (weed, molly, LSD) and life changing, soul crushing, body destroying incredibly immediately addictive illegal party drugs (crack, heroin, meth etc )
You should possibly think about what let you to put MDMA in the fun group and Methamphetamine in the immediately addictive one.
especially when the booze is kind of subsidized by the state due to it being a “national treasure”.
What?! Even in Russia vodka is not subsidized.
Not directly subsidized, but definitely different treatment than other drugs thanks to successfull lobbying in Germany. Alcohol can far more easy sponsor and advertise e.g. Or the rage of the conversatives when weed got legalized (badly in comparison of course) this year, while they really like to take photos at Germany’s greatest drug convention (Oktoberfest) or get themself “elected” to Wine Queen/Beer Kind of boring region X.
Werbung für alkoholische Getränke dürfen den übermäßigen Genuss solcher Getränke nicht fördern
Advertising for alcoholic beverages must not encourage the excessive consumption of such beverages
Of course, that’s vague AF to the point where you can argue both that anything but “Hey let’s portray binge drinking as cool” is a-ok and on the other hand that portraying any kind of positive association with alcohol is not ok. And considering how the regulators somehow refuse to shut down right-out scam call-in shows there’s not much hope for them to interpret that in a way advertisers would disagree with (advertisers have their own rules because shitstorms against their behaviour are not good advertisement).
Talking about political strategy though, I don’t think that’s a particularly good point to start, the first step should be warning labels, akin to tobacco. And yes I’m completely fine with the same kind of labels on coffee and tea and while we’re at it ultra-processed food.
Most ethanol in the US comes from corn, which is absolutely subsidized heavily.
In Hungary, it kind of it is, if your manufacturer is in the right circle.
Please fix. Don’t be worse than Russia.
This is the kind of thing said by someone who has never spent any amount of mental energy trying to understand drugs and drug use in any way. This is not a thought someone develops organically through experimentation and reasoning. This is a line parroted by idiots and it’s the kind of thinking that criminalizes and stigmatizes drug use and gets millions of people killed.
it’s 4chan. they have PhDs in trolling
It’s not trolling it’s ignorance and stupidity.
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Drug use is bad for health and absolutely does have the potential to spiral into a destructive addiction. Alcohol is a drug, by the way.
With that said, criminalizing drug use barely helps anyone - but the distribution must remain illegal.
Making distribution illegal just leads to people getting a bad supply that leads to overdoses and poisoning.
You are acting like a helicopter parent. Stop it. People have the right to make decisions about their own bodies and health.
Also you really want to ban all recreational drugs? Congrats you just removed one of people’s only outlets and caused more suicide, self-harm, and mental health issues.
Furthermore not even all drugs are addictive. Classical psychedelics actually are used to cure addictions, it’s highly unlikely you become addicted to one. It’s also one of the least dangerous forms of addiction you can have, and is better than whatever other addiction you would develop instead of if it weren’t there.
People have right to make decisions about their own bodies and health
Drugs are one of people’s only outlets
Don’t you see the issue on the intersection of these two points? People usually don’t make a free choice to go for drugs, they do it to make their life feel more bearable.
Solution? Don’t rally for drugs, rally for improving life conditions so that people wouldn’t try to escape reality.
Why not both?
If we legalize recreational drugs (start w/ weed and shrooms, expand later), here’s what we get:
- consistent dosage, so far fewer ODs and no risk of laced drugs
- history of purchases, so warning signs if pattern of use changes
- ability to tax in order to fund rehab programs
- ability to refuse service and call for professional help if someone is displaying warning signs
- fewer cartels, because why would you risk buying illegally if you can get it legally at a store?
Banning it just pushes the sale and distribution underground. I honestly don’t see the benefits there, especially for the less harmful drugs.
We should also be rallying to improve living conditions. Banning drugs doesn’t help anyone but the cartels.
Not really plenty of people take up drugs for fun rather than as a coping mechanism. A lot is just because of curiosity too. The motives are diverse.
Solution? Don’t rally for drugs, rally for improving life conditions so that people wouldn’t try to escape reality.
That doesn’t remove the other, more sensible reasons people do drugs. See above statement.
It’s not always possible to improve the quality of life. We should definitely try though, don’t get me wrong. There will always be heartache, sorrow, mental health issues and disabilities though. That’s just the human condition. Sometimes drugs are actually the less self destructive coping mechanism, especially with psychedelics. In some cases something that’s recreational for one person, is a medicine for a second person, and an addiction for a third. See amphetamine/adderall for an example.
Half this country wants the other half to hurt because fox news said they should. Your last sentence is literally impossible.
More like a third, but a third of people are dumbasses and don’t vote.
The fact that you say “drug use” as a blanket statement proves that you don’t know what you’re on about. There are a lot of drugs with a lot of effects, and even most controlled substances have approved medical applications (opiates for example).
You should look at drug scheduling in the US, which mostly captures if drugs have a medical application.
On a personal note, I hope you never have to face the kind of pain that makes you consider legal or illegal drugs as an outlet.
I know many drugs are used for medical purposes, but this is normally a “lesser evil” kind of situation where drugs are prescribed under heavy control to mitigate the effects of bad diseases and terrible symptoms.
US is actually quite lax at times on their regulation in that particular sphere.
On a personal note, I reciprocate yours.
distribution must remain illegal.
The cost of criminalization consistently outweighs the benefit, particularly when criminalization is paired with a dysfunctional criminal justice and incarceration system.
Courts disproportionately punish the young, poor, and colored, which is why you’ll never see a Sackler behind bars. Prisons harden younger people into more professional and organized crooks while they break older people and rapidly transform them into invalids. And criminalization of distribution without curtailing consumption just drives up prices and encourages cartelization and police corruption.
Sheriff’s gangs in California and Texas work hand in glove with the military police in Mexico and the CIA/DEA to transport protected cargo over the border, fattening everyone’s wallets under the pretext of drug prevention.
Sounds like more of a criminal justice issue than anything. It’s important enough to work on it instead of admitting defeat.
No one is admitting defeat, they are just telling you to stop focusing in on the symptoms and start focusing in the problem. You want to address drug misuse problems in western society? Start by addressing the problems that actually highly correlated with it. Help for unhoused persons. Better mental health systems. Those two things alone could curb a huge majority of drug misuse. If you take care of the symptoms then the problem will be mostly solved without need for any criminalization, be it criminalizing supply or demand. For the rest of people I think more funding of rehabilitation and drug education (and no, just telling people to abstain from drugs is not good education, just like abstinence is not good sex education).
With that I can agree, while still holding to the position that drug supply should be criminalized.
This simply shouldn’t be considered as a solution in and of itself.
Absolutely a criminal justice issue. Its an economic issue (“unemployable” people gravitate towards black market labor roles). Its a health care issue (street drugs often stand in for prescription medication, particularly pain relievers and psyche meds). Its a color-line issue (drug use becomes an ethnic stereotype which is used as an excuse to segregate).
All these tail effects make explicit prohibition more of a problem than a solution. Tackling the associated problems - health care needs, jobs program, desegregation - goes a long way towards reducing the incentives to consume (and therefore distribute) harmful substances.
So this machine is driving at high speeds and is incredibly dangerous and if it crashes while you are in it or riding it you’ll probably die.
Why are people using cars and motorcycles? I don’t get it!
me neither, but probably because public transport is expensive and not at all optimised
Not a great analogy honestly, you can drive a car your whole life and your odds of dying in a car accident are probably like 1%. Meanwhile your odds of dying, or at the very least having very serious health effects, from using hard drugs your whole life are basically guaranteed.
It isn’t guaranteed. Like that old lady that became 120 years old smoking a pack a day.
Both of you are somewhat right. Drug abuse causes an increased risk in getting a bad medical condition. However, if you always drive faster than you should and don’t give a fuck about road laws(which is kinda the equivalent to abusing hard drugs) you might also end up in the hospital one day.
Hey now, some of us can handle our drugs just fine. Don’t judge the entire world because a fraction can’t tell themselves no.
very much doubt that it’s a “fraction”
Here there’s roughly 200,000 people who use amphetamines recretionally and about 20,000 people who according to doctors have a problem with their usage. I.e. 90% can use them occasionally without an issue. For alcohol the number here is closer to 85%.
some of us can handle our drugs just fine
This attitude is what gets many people addicted to dangerous drugs. “I’m different, I can control it”. I’ve seen it a few times around me.
Well, I seem to be doing fine. In fact my life by all metrics right now is better than it’s ever been.
It is true that many drug users never actually get their lives ruined over it.
But drugs are still negatively impacting their health, and there is always a risk of addiction forming and getting out of control.
I live in a country where drugs are illegal, but alcohol is “alright”. Should I say people fuck up their health big time, and many, especially among men, do face issues with alcohol addiction? And those that go for drugs anyway rarely actually recover?
My take: people don’t need drugs. People need an improvement in material and mental wellbeing, and drugs (and alcohol) are there as a form of escaping a poor reality. Drugs are just the way to make the world more bearable and “fun”, to try to squeeze happiness from a grim reality, without thinking much of what it costs in the long run.
You’re right. Poor living conditions(whatever this means) may bring you to use drugs to feel good. After the high ended you might want to feel good again(even if it maybe is just 5 days later) so you get high again. Once you start getting high periodically you’re fucked. Eventually the time between each high shrinks. If you use Alcohol(which is a depressant) you will start drinking after it ended, because it make you feel like shit.
People who have a good living condition don’t get addicted to drugs as easy as people with poor living conditions do.
Op has never felt so desperate to feel anything else
“Don’t do drugs” Hot take.
Say perhaps to drugs
Apparently it is a hot take nowadays.
Guys, drugs are dangerous, unhealthy and you may not be able to recognize deep addiction and stop when you absolutely should.
That’s it. There are better ways to have fun, I promise.
Arrogance, social pressure, and sometimes just plain low IQ.
That is indeed a description for those that widespread demonise drug users.
I suppose there is also slow suicide and self medication.
I’m overweight… I guess that means sugar destroys people’s lives. Why haven’t they banned sugar?
$
The UK taxed sugar (to try and curb soft drink consumption, thanks Jamie Oliver) and it just resulted in the non-diet/zero versions of everything containing both sugar AND sweetners. They managed to stay the same price and now all taste like shite, but I guess it’s cheaper for the poor corporations who had to comply (by changing their drinks entirely rather than paying the tax).
But… most places have banned these drugs. I’m not following your logic. Are you saying they should be legal because we’re free to ruin our health in other ways?
I’m an advocate of actual freedom and personal choice. Meth is obviously a downward spiral for most. However, the issue is most drugs don’t start out that way. My point is that criminalizing drugs is the wrong approach. That is all.
