- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@gearhead.town
- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@gearhead.town
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It’s not ‘less reliable’. They are literally junks.
Sure they are. You cannot trust these publications
While I generally loathe consumer reports I don’t find this overly surprising.
Articles like this that deliberately distort the truth with misleading headlines is why I loathe Consumer Reports.
I loathe them because they were, on camera, seen modifying test parameters to try and push the results they wanted due to bias/being paid off. And the funny thing is they couldn’t produce the result they wanted so they just lied about it.
This can’t be right, electric cars have a lot less moving parts than gas cars. I get that a lot of electric car manufactures are new companies but mechanically they are significantly simpler. Simplicity almost always leads to reliability. As another comment stated there was a german study that showed the issues are not significant enough to leave someone stranded.
It’s also based on complaints. People unfamiliar with normal electric vehicle features will complain about them.
There’s probably a lot of growing pains. A whole ton of automakers are putting out their first generation models and some of them are going to miss things and fuck it up.
Like botching the 12v battery upkeep system.
They really should break it down by which problems are drivetrain issues, vs. build quality, software, etc…
They do that on individual models, but a lot of the overall numbers are just pretty basic averages without any useful statistical analysis behind them.
That’s kinda the point.
People have a number in their head for a new car price and disposable cars are a genius move my automakers because it will dry up the used car market.
We get screwed, but what’s new?
For all the hand-wringing about how complex hybrids are, they seem to do just fine.
I actually take issue with how that article characterized HEVs; the Toyota Synergy (planetary) drive system is frankly ingenious in how SIMPLE it is. I would argue it’s actually much simpler than a complex, 9- or 10-speed torque-converter based AT these days. I tell people if you want a gas-powered appliance, just get a (Toyota-style) hybrid nowadays.
Yeah conventional automatic transmissions are clockwork nightmares, a pair of electric motors and a single-speed overdrive gear are way simpler.
Honda’s system is basically like someone shrunk a diesel-electric train transmission and replaced the resistor bank with a battery.
For those working in electronics knows that the “fixability” of electornics depends on how the maneufacturer wants to make the componets “fixable” (example, laptops and desktops) so not a surprise really if maneufacturers wanted this.
Hello component protection, that has been in ICE cars for a decade. Want to swap the climate control unit? Need a dealer tool and dealer code to tell the ECU it’s fine (or swap the EEPROM from the old part with a soldering tool ;) )
“Less reliable” to my mind means breakdowns. But the report is actually based on drivers reporting any “issues”?
Anyone have data on how ICE and EVs compare on actual breakdowns?
EVs break down less.
Electric cars like the 2020 Tesla Model 3 experienced only 4.9 mechanical breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles on the road, while gas-powered cars from the same model year had a failure rate of 6.9 such incidents
Anecdotally speaking, having my 12V battery fail twice without warning which locks you out of your car and leaves you stranded. I think its an accurate statement. I only had an ICE car break down once on me in 20+ years and that was a bad alternator on a 10 year old car.
It’s a common problem with automakers making their first EVs.
I’ve had 12V batteries fail on ICE cars several times.
That doesn’t lock you out. You can still use a physical key to open the car…unless the car design is so poor that it can only be wirelessly unlocked.
Dude. I just want to say if you’re telling the truth about one breakdown in 20+ years that is mind boggling. In my 13 years of driving I have broken down in ICE vehicles countless times! Overheating, multiple dead alternators (twice in my truck, once in my wife’s car), snapped serpentine belt, exploded clutch. I’m sure I can think of more, I just find it hard to believe it’s once in 20+ years unless you’ve lived a very nice life with nothing but new cars.
Stop buying fords and buy Toyotas or other Japanese cars except Nissans. But even the Nissans can still drive in limp mode when the transmission fails. Only a few issues will disable a car. I’ve been a car that had the turbo stopped spooljng on a trip to Vegas but it just cut bunch of the power but was still drivable.
Here you go, by ADAC, could hardly get a more reliable source: https://www.notebookcheck.net/First-true-EV-reliability-report-shows-30-less-breakdowns-as-ADAC-pegs-low-voltage-batteries-a-weak-point.718821.0.html
The issues are weighed by severity. So being left stranded weighs more heavily than a leaky sunroof.
Pretty sure they aren’t. It’s just number of problems divided by the number of vehicles.
We weigh the severity of each type of problem to create a predicted reliability score for each vehicle, from 1 to 100. We use that information to give reliability ratings for every major mainstream vehicle. (The reliability rating is then combined with data collected from our track testing, as well as our owner satisfaction survey results and safety data, to calculate each test vehicle’s Overall Score.)
CR has been playing these word games for a long time now. It’s good people are finally catching on to their obvious biases.
Yeah, as much as I find EVs odd, I do know that proportionally, a larger amount of EV owners tend to be much more tech-savvy than ICEV owners, which can easily skew data that relies on owners posting online like this.
I find it much more plausible that folks that are not tech savvy would complain more. Just look around amazon some times. People sending back fridges because they are too loud at the same day. My rectractable car roof is broken, it will only do so when the car is in neutral. Is that a knock? Do I have to bring this back while in warranty? etc.
Anyone have data on how ICE and EVs compare on actual breakdowns?
Electric cars like the 2020 Tesla Model 3 experienced only 4.9 mechanical breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles on the road, while gas-powered cars from the same model year had a failure rate of 6.9 such incidents in a first of its kind EV reliability study that doesn’t rely on subjective owners’ reports. Both are very low numbers as the cars in the comparison are practically new, yet the simpler construction of EVs put them at a 30% lower chance for a significant breakdown even in this favorable scenario.
…
ADAC tried to compare apples to apples by picking 3-year old cars as that’s when EVs started to meet their registration quantity criteria for inclusion in the reliability report. As can be expected, electric cars had six times less drivertrain problems than internal combustion engines with their numerous moving parts.
hope this means naturally aspirated engined vehicles will retain its value
Way to go! Something that has the potential of being basically maintenance free. Turned in to a shit show of complexity and over engineering to sell to the rich pricks who don’t care about maintenance cost. Typical.
They should be more reliable since there is less shit in them that can break.
In conventional cars, there’s all kinds of bullshit that can break.
I’m guessing the electric vehicles tend to be manufactured poorly to reduce costs so people can get them cheaper.
The lesson to learn here is that cars are expensive, complicated bullshit that will break and cost you a ton of money, no matter if they’re electric or conventional.
Just like ICE cars , reliability of EV’s will improve over time and updates
Tesla with it’s continuous improvements fixed the initial horror stories about reliability , a lot of taxi drivers are using tesla’s nowadays
Every other brand will continue to improve EV reliability with every update , eventually EVs will become extremely reliable even more than ICE cars
Elon not gonna be happy with that image ha
I would like understand how/why a PHEV is less reliable than a hybrid. It’s basically a hybrid with a bigger battery.
Stellantis makes a number of popular car segments only in PHEV. The only minivan and jeep you can get that run on electricity are PHEVs from them.