Anyone have data on how ICE and EVs compare on actual breakdowns?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/First-true-EV-reliability-report-shows-30-less-breakdowns-as-ADAC-pegs-low-voltage-batteries-a-weak-point.718821.0.html

Electric cars like the 2020 Tesla Model 3 experienced only 4.9 mechanical breakdowns per 1,000 vehicles on the road, while gas-powered cars from the same model year had a failure rate of 6.9 such incidents in a first of its kind EV reliability study that doesn’t rely on subjective owners’ reports. Both are very low numbers as the cars in the comparison are practically new, yet the simpler construction of EVs put them at a 30% lower chance for a significant breakdown even in this favorable scenario.

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ADAC tried to compare apples to apples by picking 3-year old cars as that’s when EVs started to meet their registration quantity criteria for inclusion in the reliability report. As can be expected, electric cars had six times less drivertrain problems than internal combustion engines with their numerous moving parts.

What car with this shape has better efficiency in real world conditions? The only cars that are significantly better have a fastback roof line.

The cheapest has fallen from $100k to $70k over three years of ownership, do people expect such an expensive car to hold its value better than that?

Most of the comparisons in this video are to a year ago, which was the peak of the supply crunch. You can see in one of the charts that a 2020 Taycan had risen in value above the original sale price after two years of ownership, in 2022, and then crashed afterwards, now it’s 40% below the sale price. The media is full of stories of EV’s depreciating, but they are just reverting to the normal outcome. A car losing 40% of its value over 4 years of ownership does not seem high to me.

All of this generation of EVs will depreciate like crazy as battery technologies will improve a lot over the next few years and become somewhat more affordable.

Batteries and the tech becoming obsolete is one reason for EVs depreciating a lot

The Taycan gets 260 miles at 75mph in summer and recharges in just over 20 minutes, it’s not obsolete, that’s still one of the best available on the market.

According to the AA, the average car doing 10k miles a year loses 60% of its value after 3 years, battery improvements do not happen quickly enough to make a big difference, and even if the battery halved in cost, it’s not as if the price of a Porsche is suddenly going to be cheap, the new price might drop from £85k to £75k, that is not enough to make a big impact on used car prices.

It’s just the same as always, new cars lose value quickly.

Batteries and the tech becoming obsolete is one reason for EVs depreciating a lot

The Taycan gets 260 miles at 75mph in summer and recharges in just over 20 minutes, it’s not obsolete, that’s still one of the best available on the market.

That seems like really good depreciation for a newish expensive car like this.

On Bjorn’s test the old one got 205 miles in summer at 75mph, so add ten miles to that with the range increase. The Model Y got about 220 miles on the same test under similar conditions. That’s about the limit for these battery sizes, you have to go up to 100kWh batteries to get significantly more range.

New software, backlit sliders, faster acceleration, additional range, faster charging, there aren’t many problems left with the car. It’s the ordinary/boring option, but many people don’t want a car that stands out.

Yes, but it’s not about manufacturers making batteries, it’s about China’s dominance of the supply chain as a country. China refines 95% of the battery materials and makes 75% of the batteries. Much of that is because the Chinese government has subsidised battery manufacturing to put themselves in a dominant position, on average Chinese battery factories are running at half utilisation which is not viable for western companies. Also, they have much reduced labour and environmental protections and they ignore IP (the LFP patents which just expired).

There are quite a few companies that provide this service in Europe. Usually it works by putting a device in the OBD port and then measuring the amount of energy which is used as the car is driven over time. There are also second hand EV dealers that provide this information as standard, for instance DriveGreen in the UK provides Moba battery reports for all the cars it sells:

https://drive-green.co.uk/dg_blog/battery-soh-certificates/

It isn’t more popular looking at the sales figures. ID.4 and Ioniq 5 both sold 10-11k units last quarter in the US, in Europe the ID.4 is the third best selling EV this year, the Ioniq 5 is about the 15th.

There are plenty of good reasons to prefer the Ioniq 5 to the ID.4, but the ID.4 gets excessive criticism online and by reviewers, I think because it is a less exciting design and appeals to ordinary people, because people dislike VW because of dieselgate, and because VW were seen as challenging Tesla, so Tesla fans got defensive. The software also was not very good, and these perceptions remain even though the issues seem to have been solved. The new version of the ID.4 actually has software features that I’d like to see others adopt, like an ability to manually precondition the battery, and an ability to see the car’s current maximum charge speed potential.

If you’re looking at the ID.4 I’d make sure to get the new version with the v4 software. The worst issues with the ID.4 are that the OTA system hasn’t worked, and the old cars can’t get the new software.

The new MEB cars have backlit temperature sliders, including the new ID.4.