- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@gearhead.town
- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@gearhead.town
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Idk how it looks in china, but I still do not see an EV as practical. Between charging times, and unknown dependability, im going to stay gas for the time being. One day, im sure, il be in an ev. But probably not for 10 to 20 years considering my current car is 20 years old
Not everyone’s use case is the same, so YMMV, but for most people it works just fine.
charging times
You plug in when you get home and leave it overnight. In the morning you’re full. This takes less effort than ever going to a gas station. Since it charges while you sleep, who cares if it takes 2 hours or 8. For fast charging, most modern EVs can go 20 to 80% full in about 30 minutes - and that will get you another 200-300 km (120-180mi) of driving. By the time you go poop and get a coffee - you’re ready to go for another 3 hours until your next poop/coffee break. It’s not THAT bad for that once a year roadie you do.
and unknown dependability
Theoretically, it’s better. Fewer moving parts to go wrong. A regular Lithium ion battery is good for around 800 cycles, give or take. An LFP battery will do 2000. Assuming 1 full charge will get you through a week of commutes, maybe another charge for your sunday funday, and let’s throw in 4 more for a regional road trip. That’s 110 charges per year – that’s 18 years. Most manufacturers will also give you an 8 year warranty on the battery, just in case. That is quite reasonable. Everything else is exactly the same as your old car.
VW watching VW sales plummet is probably the norm at this point. They have nothing worth buying in the VW lineup.
The Golf used to be such a leader in its segment. When I traveled Eastern Europe, sometimes every 4th or 5th car was a Mk1-Mk7 Golf. The Mk8 is a huge failure & in its basic form cannot compete with other cars like Honda,Toyota,Hyundai,etc
Tesla handed the car industry to China on a silver platter. Not just did they dumb down interiors so that any material and quality advantage Europe has to China was gone, they also got rid of the technicalities of an ICE.
And then the world decided to give these cars subsidies so that China could take this advantage further. Crazy
No one should be surprised that BYD is dominating. Doug Demuro did a review of the Han and its nice. A $43k EV with stitched leather interior and is intended to compete with vehicles that are priced above $60k.
Also, China is where the US probably should be with EV adoption, but to say that we aren’t committed is an understatement.
That’s what happens when there’s no bureaucracy and regulations standing in the way of progress. But there’s a cost
Bureaucracy and regulation that help corporate greed are bad, sure, but bureaucracy and regulations that help the consumer are good things for progress.
For example, the usa homeownership rate was in the 40% range until programs post ww2 boosted it up into the 60% range. Great Britain was even worse. Some economist somewhere decided homeownership was good, and now usa/canada/aus/gb all put programs in place that boosted their numbers to the 60-70 range we see today.
Compared to china’s 90% it is not as high, but there were some costs to that as well.
No bureaucracy in China? Source ?
If they dont want bureaucracy there wont be any
I think he means that in China, if the government decides something happens, it happens. For example, with China’s rapid expansion of their high speed rail network, environmental concerns were often ignored and consultation with local residents near the proposed tracks often did not take place or was brushed aside to get the project underway as quickly as possible. Compare this to a western country where a project like a high speed train line would spend years getting bogged down in environmental consultations and feedback loops from stakeholders.
Which is hilarious because Chinese provincial bureaucracy is legendary for its pettiness and slow movement
Honestly, what’s funny is that American and Chinese online bitching about their governments’ bureaucracies are practically identical. People call them lazy, low paid and relient on good benefits, too obsessed with affirmative action, etc
it’s so legendary it’s a major point of chinese theology LMAOOO
I feel like car culture in the US is really hurting adoption rates. Just about every man over 40 that I know hates EVs, not all, but the vast majority.
But so many of them are known as their circles “car guy” so people seek out their opinions. Then they say the stupidest shit. You see it in this sub all the time. And they’ll always push those goalposts back when their prediction is wrong. Hell according to “car guys” from 10 years ago, I should have had to replace the battery 3+ times for $10k a pop in my volt because “they use the same batteries and cell phones and those things are garbage after 2 or 3 years”
They also pretend that you can’t charge at home. Or that the range is terrible. Hell you even hear the claim that they are all unreliable and impossible to fix.
So sick of people that hold on to the past with an iron grip
It’s not really men over 40 who are buying cars. The majority of consumer spending is done by women, so you have to market towards them to sell anything. And right now they’re into large SUVs.
I’m not being a dick, I think you just missed my point. In most friends groups, men over 40 are often asked what they think is best, and because of our car culture they often give shitty advise.
Its always the same kind of knuckle dragging idiot too, they vote conservative and don’t have a single original thought on EVs.
Everything they know comes from talk radio, Fox or some fringe media outlet bankrolled by big oil.
They also love Elon Musk, but they used to hate him until he opened his mouth
Big Oil ran an incredibly successful campaign against EVs, to the point that people will ad nauseum repeat nonsense like the battery thing till the cows come home.
If anyone is trying to get you to hate or fear something, you should really ask why, and these people just don’t.
but to say that we aren’t committed is an understatement.
We have huge anti-progress politics (SUVs hualing nothing) right now combined with a mix of fake progress politics (touch screen everything). It’s created dividing lines everywhere, where as it used to not be so bad.
It’s bad, divisive leadership. Elon could have had the world, Tesla could be far bigger than it is.
China doesnt have fossil fuel lobbyists to worry about. When the government sets a goal, it happens or heads will roll. It’s why china’s so good at building infrastructure as well. No hoops to jump through when one group controls all the hoops.
It’s a lot easier when all of the domestic automakers are state owned and there is no political opposition to anything. Also the fact they are fully industrializing and building up many cities due to their economic boom, it’s reasonable they’d made all née infrastructure modernized and future proof. Much easier than having to replace old infrastructure and build new ones on top of them
Also, China is where the US probably should be with EV adoption
Also, the adoption is thanks in part to the super cheap EVs China is building, but that would never make it past our safety standards in the US.
China’s leading the way (along with several US startups such as Tesla, Rivian, Lucid).
Drove VW’s ID.4 and was extremely disappointed given the price point. Nearly $50k, manual seats, smallish screens for an EV, sunroof optional, power liftgate optional, etc. plus the whole crappy dealer experience. The game has changed and I’m not sure that most of the traditional automakers have figured it out.
Can’t even play Cuphead on the infotainment system
I meam most of them are starting to pull out of the ev game. Plus its peoples preference, like i couldnt stand getting a tesla. I hate touchscreens in cars, its asinine.
Typical German car nickel and diming for every feature.
the launch edition ID3 only had speakers in the front, none in the back. This is a 40,000+ eur vehicle and it was the special edition launch model.
The last car I saw with that in the states was my college roommate’s base model 1996 Civic CX hatchback with manual steering
So much for “the people’s car”
Nationalism and country disputes are also most reason why Japanese automakers and Hyundai sales only going worse, so they seem very difficult to stay in China.
VW still has chances to stay in China, but they really need to push harder in their EV effort.
Nationalism and country disputes are also most reason
If that’s the case Tesla wouldn’t be doing so well there.
It really is just because the Japanese and Koreans don’t have any value proposition in the Chinese market anymore.
They have neither the prestige of the European/American luxury brands nor the value and technology of domestic Chinese OEMs.
is it though? BYD will soon overtake Tesla at least in China. The OP’s nationalism arguement still stands
BYD is overtaking Tesla because they sell cars in every segment going up to entry level luxury while Tesla only sells entry level luxury and up cars.
Ford F-series is the best selling car in the US but that doesn’t mean Americans are nationalistic when it comes to cars.
BYDs are cheaper and are designed for the Chinese market, it’s a matter of time before they over take Tesla, a premium brand.
There are just no other non-premium EV brand on the planet that’s competitive.
If you wanna talk about pick-ups Ford F-series, Silverdoe and Ram all comfortably outsell Tundra and Tacoma
China is making a lot of super cheap EVs.
The EV market is very saturated in China, too saturated in fact, hence why they are affordable. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers outside of the big players like BYD are losing money. In the US, there is lack of variety of models and Tesla dominates the market share.
There are several key factors why EV adoption in China is high. First, China actually invested in charging infrastructure, which is something the US is still significantly behind. The cost of charging in China is very cheap compared to fueling up. And one point that most people don’t realize is that the biggest hurdle to buying a car in China isn’t the car, but the license plate, which is obtained either through lottery or auction. A license plate from a first tier city can costs 5 figures in USD, and may also come with driving restrictions. Meanwhile, if you buy a EV, you get a special green license plate that doesn’t require lottery and has no special restrictions.
It’s weird how luxury brand like Audi and Mercedes now feel like old and unmodern. I know it’s not like that but their ev is lacking design. I love Mercedes c and e class design but their ev is straight up ugly.
The infotainment system needs to be bigger so you can’t see out the window. The more distractions the better.
VW is so slow to react. Since the moment the id3 and id4 were released buyers said they hated the capacitive controls, but it took VW a year to acknowledge the issue and then it’ll take another two for them to fix it, rather than just swapping the capacitive steering wheel controls for the button controls from the lower trims right away.
Amazing what can happen when politicians don’t make everything a battleground. China is more forward thinking and progressive than the US has been since the 70s.
The gap only continues to widen as many politicians love dumbing down their voter bases.
I’m interested in what sort of car culture is in China. Private car ownership wasn’t allowed for regular citizens until 1994, so I would not expect as much cultural significance or heritage for cars in the public conscience. I’m sure there are plenty car enthusiasts in China who enjoy engaging ICE cars but I would imagine there are also many more EV enthusiasts.
You are right, there are so little “car people” in China, cars are seen as transportation tool instead of something that is fun to drive or whatever, car guys are a rare breed in china
Brands come and go and even the big chinese brands make up little brands to sell specific models.
Cars after certain number of years are required to be scrapped or go through annual inspections. All EVs designated for transport use (taxis, p2p car share, etc.) must be “recycled” after 7 years and are not allowed on the road after.
Wow, companies without an inside line to the Chinese government are caught off-guard when the government changes its policies on private vehicle acquisition. Who’d have thought…
Lol. Few car companies have as long standing and deep a relationship with the Chinese government than VW. They were literally the first Western car company approached as part of China’s economic reforms starting in the 80’s and VW and Audi’s were official government vehicles for more than 3 decades. Like imagine if US government vehicles were all Toyota’s instead of GM’s and Ford’s.
when the government changes its policies on private vehicle acquisition
What specific policies are you referring to here that was aimed at screwing VW?
melts to death in chinese car lithium explosion
Lots of BYD and MG4 here in Australia. Never heard of such incident here.
Makes you wonder how much is real and how much is keyboard warriors shitting their pants at China’s rise and need to find excuses to make them feel better.
Note that ALL BYDs and the 51kwh MG battery pack are LFP - which is a much more stable chemistry. Has more recharge cycles. But also substantially less prone to catching fire in a crash.