Watson, founder of Sea Shepherd and co-founder of Greenpeace, has been arrested on an international warrant and is facing charges including accomplice to assault and ship trespass
Faroese have hunted whales since time basically immemorial as people with more land have hunted deer. They are also allowed to, under international law, to hunt whales just as say Inuit are. Their hunting is sustainable, always has been.
The anti-whaling convention was instituted to stop commercial exploitation of the seas, to stop the great whaling ships, it was not instituted to stop people feeding themselves.
If there were a nation that still practiced cannibalism, should everyone be fine with it because they’ve been doing it a long time and it’s part of their culture? Even if sustainable because they only ate the criminals?
Just because something has been done for a long time doesn’t mean it should still be acceptable, especially as we learn more such as the intelligence and importance to the food chain that whales have. It’s not like there are no other options.
The Faroer don’t have enough arable land for everyone to switch to a vegan diet. They could import the rest of what they need, yes, but their only notable export product is fish so that wouldn’t make much sense would it.
And with “only notable export product” I mean “stamps are on place number two”. You know, the kind you glue onto envelopes.
Just to be clear, you’re no longer saying it’s ok to kill whales because it’s cultural and they’ve been doing it a long time? You’re now saying that it’s ok because they would be economically ruined if they didn’t kill whales?
I’m not trying to be combative, just trying to clarify.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. I think both lines of reasoning have problems though:
X is ok because it’s cultural and we’ve been doing X for a long time.
Y is ok because we would be economically ruined if we didn’t do Y.
I can think of many things to fill in for X and Y that satisfy the necessary conditions, but still aren’t ok. I do, however, think this line of reasoning is valid:
Z is ok because we would literally starve if we didn’t do Z.
I don’t think any vegan would take issue with #3, since in that case Z is necessary, and vegans are only concerned with unnecessary harm.
I mean I could have gone deeper into it but then I didn’t particularly feel like arguing with a vegan. Yes, I’m speciesist, we can leave it at that.
The Faroer certainly needed whaling in the past to survive, and that necessity has engrained itself in their solidarity culture – everything about how the hunt is done and distributed is communal, closest comparison I can come up when looking at Germany would be the status of the fire department in a village: Not the inn, not the church, not even the football club, but the fire department is the core and beating heart of the community and its solidarity. They had a brief stint with commercial whaling but they stopped that before commercial whaling got outlawed, couldn’t compete with the Norwegians and their giant ships.
Faroese being as green and nature-conscious as they are they would indeed stop if the whales were endangered… but they aren’t. Dolphins are controversial, I guess they’re going to stop hunting them within the next decade or two. That, or the rest of us are going to poison the seas even more so that the meat becomes completely inedible. It’s dire.
Why do you care more about one person than your culture of murdering whales? Why do you speak up about him but not your tradition that you apparently don’t participate in??
So the person who said this rhetoric breeds racism and xenophobia is now being demanded to renounce their culture and apologize for the actions of other people (just because they’re the same ethnicity)…
Maybe they also don’t eat pigs? I eat meat (FUCK chickens), but I haven’t eaten pork for years after getting to know my neighbors pet pigs. Sure, they’re more socialized and a whole different breed from factory farm pigs, but still they’re too smart for me to be comfortable eating them. But my point here is that you’re accusing them of hypocrisy or inconsistency, without ever establishing that they actually are being hypocritical or inconsistent.
That’s not really a good take though. You don’t need to be intelligent or social to be worthy of the moral consideration to not be eaten. Otherwise we’d be eating babies.
He doesnt like being called a disgusting freak for slaughtering whales, letting them slowly die after dragging them on land to maximize their suffering. Thats the only reason i can think of for why a faroe national would be mad at him.
I dont like him either, but this level of hatred only comes from people who got caught in the act and dont want anyone to talk about it.
Faroese cuisine is generally dominated by the use of animal products, as only about 2% of the 1,393 km2 of land on the islands is at all suitable for arable crops
a 2008 paper in Australian Archaeology said conservationists find Faroese whaling particularly offensive because it does not conform to traditional Western perspectives on “primitive” tribes
So if Sea Shepherd’s attacks were all honest, there would be less vitriol?
Does he lie in a specific way that implicates innocent people? (vs. lying in a way that garners broader attention and the attention is what drives the additional hate) Curious for some examples as someone low-information on the subject.
Paul isn’t out harassing inuit communities. Do you know why? Because inuit communities practice ACTUAL sustenance hunting, not a tradition of slaughter dressed up as “culture”. Do not disgrace actual caretakers of the land to cover up your barbarism
"how dare you call us out for the horrific things we’re doing ". Like you don’t even pretend it’s fake.
Hey, you don’t like people shitting on your country? How about you make them stop slaughtering whales for no fucking reason.
Like, I’m sorry, am I supposed to feel bad that people are rightfully calling you out for that shit? Is your country not a modern, functioning society? Are you really incapable of shedding these pointless barbaric traditions, and would rather just cry about it when someone dares to call you out?
Let me guess, “I refuse to discuss this with you” or whatever. Like you response to the other person.
I’m beginning to think you have more at stake in this than just being from the same country. I’m from the US, dude, my country is shit and there’s a million things to criticize it for… And you can’t even admit the one thing your home is known for is barbaric
Is your country not a modern, functioning society? Are you really incapable of shedding these pointless barbaric traditions, and would rather just cry about it when someone dares to call you out?
Have you actually looked into the topic or are you simply assuming? The Faroese regulations on whaling are extensive, from what methods are allowed to beach the whales to how the killing is to be done so it’s quick.
I’m from the US, dude
Then you should really focus on the complete absence of any animal protection laws in the US, instead. The Faroese didn’t even blink when outlawing the traditional way to kill the whales in favour of spinal lancing, yes of course whales bleeding out in shallow bays is a gruesome sight. And they own that, while risking their lives driving the whales in small boats.
Meanwhile, US consumers are safely isolated from the absolutely abhorrent conditions their food is produced under. The bloody bays aren’t avoidable, they come (literally) with the territory. Chicken rotting while still alive because they’re so tightly packed and hygiene isn’t an issue because you’re chlorinating them anyway is avoidable.
It’s you, here, who’s alienated from how food is produced, not the Faroese.
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If you don’t want to be hated, don’t murder whales. It’s very easy, literally most people do it.
Faroese have hunted whales since time basically immemorial as people with more land have hunted deer. They are also allowed to, under international law, to hunt whales just as say Inuit are. Their hunting is sustainable, always has been.
The anti-whaling convention was instituted to stop commercial exploitation of the seas, to stop the great whaling ships, it was not instituted to stop people feeding themselves.
So kindly fuck off and I have a song for you.
If there were a nation that still practiced cannibalism, should everyone be fine with it because they’ve been doing it a long time and it’s part of their culture? Even if sustainable because they only ate the criminals?
Just because something has been done for a long time doesn’t mean it should still be acceptable, especially as we learn more such as the intelligence and importance to the food chain that whales have. It’s not like there are no other options.
Let me guess yet another vegan.
The Faroer don’t have enough arable land for everyone to switch to a vegan diet. They could import the rest of what they need, yes, but their only notable export product is fish so that wouldn’t make much sense would it.
And with “only notable export product” I mean “stamps are on place number two”. You know, the kind you glue onto envelopes.
Just to be clear, you’re no longer saying it’s ok to kill whales because it’s cultural and they’ve been doing it a long time? You’re now saying that it’s ok because they would be economically ruined if they didn’t kill whales?
I’m not trying to be combative, just trying to clarify.
Both are things that make killing whales ok. It’s just that when arguing with vegans “they’d literally starve” is a way more productive argument.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. I think both lines of reasoning have problems though:
I can think of many things to fill in for X and Y that satisfy the necessary conditions, but still aren’t ok. I do, however, think this line of reasoning is valid:
I don’t think any vegan would take issue with #3, since in that case Z is necessary, and vegans are only concerned with unnecessary harm.
I mean I could have gone deeper into it but then I didn’t particularly feel like arguing with a vegan. Yes, I’m speciesist, we can leave it at that.
The Faroer certainly needed whaling in the past to survive, and that necessity has engrained itself in their solidarity culture – everything about how the hunt is done and distributed is communal, closest comparison I can come up when looking at Germany would be the status of the fire department in a village: Not the inn, not the church, not even the football club, but the fire department is the core and beating heart of the community and its solidarity. They had a brief stint with commercial whaling but they stopped that before commercial whaling got outlawed, couldn’t compete with the Norwegians and their giant ships.
Faroese being as green and nature-conscious as they are they would indeed stop if the whales were endangered… but they aren’t. Dolphins are controversial, I guess they’re going to stop hunting them within the next decade or two. That, or the rest of us are going to poison the seas even more so that the meat becomes completely inedible. It’s dire.
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Why do you care more about one person than your culture of murdering whales? Why do you speak up about him but not your tradition that you apparently don’t participate in??
So the person who said this rhetoric breeds racism and xenophobia is now being demanded to renounce their culture and apologize for the actions of other people (just because they’re the same ethnicity)…
Sounds like they were right.
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No amount of whaling is currently sustainable, and won’t be for many generations.
Long-finned pilot whale, Atlantic white-sided dolphin. Neither are endangered, on the contrary: Both are listed as Least Concern.
Gross. Whales are intelligent, social creatures. That’s like eating chimpanzee.
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Maybe they also don’t eat pigs? I eat meat (FUCK chickens), but I haven’t eaten pork for years after getting to know my neighbors pet pigs. Sure, they’re more socialized and a whole different breed from factory farm pigs, but still they’re too smart for me to be comfortable eating them. But my point here is that you’re accusing them of hypocrisy or inconsistency, without ever establishing that they actually are being hypocritical or inconsistent.
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That’s not really a good take though. You don’t need to be intelligent or social to be worthy of the moral consideration to not be eaten. Otherwise we’d be eating babies.
Yeah, that doesn’t logically follow. Nobody said it’s the one, singular consideration.
You’re comparing a species of animal (whale) to the age of an animal (baby). Two completely different things…
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Somehow it’s still your fault. I’m very progressive.
Lemmy says “Indigenous rights” until it’s white people, I guess.
Too bad
Care to elaborate?
He doesnt like being called a disgusting freak for slaughtering whales, letting them slowly die after dragging them on land to maximize their suffering. Thats the only reason i can think of for why a faroe national would be mad at him.
I dont like him either, but this level of hatred only comes from people who got caught in the act and dont want anyone to talk about it.
As long as you’re vegan or happy with being called a disgusting freak for eating animal products I think that’s fine.
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Did this ^ guy really not get that im making fun of him for being a little crybaby?
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The hatred and racism part.
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Maybe you guys should stop slaughtering whales
Right? It’s real fucking simple.
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Then, while it’s going on, don’t be surprised that people see your country in a poor light
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Still nothing WHAT they allegedly lied about, only what the effects of said pictures were.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands
But, you see, I think my culture is superior so they should stop.
Anyway, who’s up for an ethically* slaughtered cow that I’ve raised in a box?
Wow I didn’t realize that cows were endangered. I also didn’t realize that we slaughtered cows by drowning them.
Yeah this has mad “shooting the messenger” vibes
So if Sea Shepherd’s attacks were all honest, there would be less vitriol?
Does he lie in a specific way that implicates innocent people? (vs. lying in a way that garners broader attention and the attention is what drives the additional hate) Curious for some examples as someone low-information on the subject.
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Paul isn’t out harassing inuit communities. Do you know why? Because inuit communities practice ACTUAL sustenance hunting, not a tradition of slaughter dressed up as “culture”. Do not disgrace actual caretakers of the land to cover up your barbarism
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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289731260_The_Faroes_Grindadrap_or_Pilot_Whale_Hunt_The_Importance_of_it's_'Traditional'_Status_in_Debates_with_Conservationists
"how dare you call us out for the horrific things we’re doing ". Like you don’t even pretend it’s fake.
Hey, you don’t like people shitting on your country? How about you make them stop slaughtering whales for no fucking reason.
Like, I’m sorry, am I supposed to feel bad that people are rightfully calling you out for that shit? Is your country not a modern, functioning society? Are you really incapable of shedding these pointless barbaric traditions, and would rather just cry about it when someone dares to call you out?
Let me guess, “I refuse to discuss this with you” or whatever. Like you response to the other person.
I’m beginning to think you have more at stake in this than just being from the same country. I’m from the US, dude, my country is shit and there’s a million things to criticize it for… And you can’t even admit the one thing your home is known for is barbaric
Have you actually looked into the topic or are you simply assuming? The Faroese regulations on whaling are extensive, from what methods are allowed to beach the whales to how the killing is to be done so it’s quick.
Then you should really focus on the complete absence of any animal protection laws in the US, instead. The Faroese didn’t even blink when outlawing the traditional way to kill the whales in favour of spinal lancing, yes of course whales bleeding out in shallow bays is a gruesome sight. And they own that, while risking their lives driving the whales in small boats.
Meanwhile, US consumers are safely isolated from the absolutely abhorrent conditions their food is produced under. The bloody bays aren’t avoidable, they come (literally) with the territory. Chicken rotting while still alive because they’re so tightly packed and hygiene isn’t an issue because you’re chlorinating them anyway is avoidable.
It’s you, here, who’s alienated from how food is produced, not the Faroese.
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what has he done to garner hatred against the faroe people other than condemn their whaling?
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He has done more harm for his cause by insisting on being front and center in wale wars. The Japonese wale hunters were more appealing than him.
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