Elon Musk has until the end of Wednesday to respond to demands from Brussels to remove graphic images and disinformation linked to the violence in Israel from his social network X — or face the full force of Europe’s new social media rules.
Thierry Breton, the European Union commissioner who oversees the bloc’s Digital Services Act (DSA) rules, wrote to the owner of X, formerly Twitter, to warn Musk of his obligations under the bloc’s content rules.
If Musk fails to comply, the EU’s rules state X could face fines of up to 6 percent of its revenue for potential wrongdoing. Under the regulations, social media companies are obliged to remove all forms of hate speech, incitement to violence and other gruesome images or propaganda that promote terrorist organizations.
Since Hamas launched its violent attacks on Israel on October 7, X has been flooded with images, videos and hashtags depicting — in graphic detail — how hundreds of Israelis have been murdered or kidnapped. Under X’s own policies, such material should also be removed immediately.
Getting rid of misinformation is great.
Getting rid of accurately reported, gruesome images because of a government mandate flies in the face of the core principles of free speech. And it would cause real damage to the world.
Remember that it was only when the world actually saw images of the Nazi concentration camps that the world actually believed it. They’d heard about it for years, but it was largely ignored.
Getting rid of misinformation is great.
That is the goal. The OP article and especially the headline here is misleading.
This is what is in the original letter regarding violent images: „repurposed old images of unrelated armed conflicts or military footage that actually originated from video games“.
The issue is not violent images per se. The issue is misinformation through violent images that are unrelated to the current events.
and other gruesome images or propaganda that promote terrorist organizations.
Seems to me like this is a sly way to remove any videos where Hamas is successful.
Which is weird, because seeing those videos usually gives more support for Israel.
This whole law is fucked. Leave freedom of speech alone.
Freedom of speech is mostly an American concept. In most European states we „only“ have freedom of expression and opinion (a human right). Deliberately spreading propaganda, agitation and fake news is not covered by freedom of expression and opinion. On the contrary, it can be a criminal offense.
This is not the first time Musk thinks US laws apply to the whole world or that he is above the law of the countries his businesses operate in. A part of me hopes that he gets fined and then ignores the fine. He might just be stupid enough.
See? I called him stupid. That is an expression of my opinion. Using images of violence from 2010 and claiming that they are from 2023 is not an opinion.
I think he should just take X out of the EU and watch the uproar when EU citizens can’t get their fix.
Would really show who wears the pants in the relationship.
Using images of violence from 2010 and claiming that they are from 2023 is not an opinion.
I’m specifically referring to real videos accurately described in my previous comment.
EU citizens would grumble a bit, but then just switch over to other services like Treads and Mastodon. Many of our governments already did.
We aren’t loyal to a specific company, we use what is the most convenient and doesn’t spit right in our faces.
I think the EU would change its rules to appease its citizens who are addicted to X.
Same reason why the US would never ban tiktok. There would be an uproar of average people who don’t pay attention to these things wondering where their fix went.
I think the EU would change its rules to appease its citizens who are addicted to X.
It would not. The EU has funded Matrix/Element, Mastodon, even Lemmy has been developed using EU funding.
Facebook, 𝕏, Google, and similar US mega corps, can play by the rules or GTFO, the EU has alternatives.
I respect that but the images presented to the public were selected to denounce and illustrate horrendous acts commited.
Here, I’d risk there is a very high risk/probability whatever may be leaked/posted is for pure shock value, with no intention to inform or contextualize.
Intent doesn’t matter. People should be allowed to document and post crimes committed against humanity
The pictures are old and don’t relate to what’s happening currently.
Also, what do you think the differences between pre-meditated murder and manslaughter are? Intent absolutely matters.
Intent does matter. It is so inportant it is even relevant in courts of law.
You want the images of the barbarism raging in Israel as we speak to be known to the world and that is a good thing. People need to see the acts being commited there.
Yet twitter is not, in any way, the platform for it, as those same images are very easily twisted out of context and thrown out in a fashion that will only serve to further entrench extreme positions and used for sheer shock value.
These are human lives being laid to waste, not a social media circus for browny points.
I’m not sure, but I believe this is only for social media sites. You can still document it, but social media isn’t the place. I assume you’d be able to link to that, but not to the images directly, but I’m just guessing.
Yeah, I see denouncing and illustrating terrorist attacks as a good thing.
Yes, which requires an unbiase position, supplying all possible information.
Nowadays, and even more when considering twitter, that is hardly the case.
The pictures are old and unrelated to what’s happening currently.
Which makes it even worse, I’d risk? If the said pictures are unrelated, why are those being pushed forward? Are we voluntarily trying to dumb ourselves?
I should have replied to the person you responded to, you are clearly on the same page I am.
You should read before you post.
You’re speaking against the propaganda fueled groupthink, that’s a bannable offense.
Or what lol. Rich people are above the law.
I’m glad to see for once the fines are proportional to revenue, and not a fixed amount. 6% hurts.
Will it hurt though? How are they going to collect the 6%? Do US based banks cooperate with the EU on this kind of thing? What happens if Musk just tells them to go fuck themselves?
I assume EU-based ISPs will be forced to ban access to the website for noncompliance, otherwise it would have literally no teeth whatsoever
That’s actually pretty scary for the Internet.
Nah it’s pretty good for the internet. We also blocked Russian propaganda outlets and shit in the EU. It’s much nicer.
Oh right, I forgot you Europeans didn’t have a first amendment
Guess what
We don’t even have the american constitutionOur laws are older and much more robust than the ones in the US.
They also adapt with the times.
But that just might have to do with the fact that EU politics don’t cater that much to corporations but instead to the people that elected them.
Probably a lot of Xi tter customers headquatered in EU. They can say to their own banks to not send money.
how can settle for that?
when normal people spend years in single cell rooms for small offenses Lmao 🇺🇸🦅😎
This is in the EU, so your emojis don’t make sense. But you are right, rich people get off way too easy the world over.
Xitter is a corporation that doesn’t live in the EU
Sorry, completely off topic and not the place, but …
your comment is perfectly complemented by your username above it.
Is 6% of X revenue enough to disincentivize him? Is X even making positive net profit? EU needs to get its teeth on and begin doing things like blocking their apps in the regional app stores.
You’re thinking of profit. Revenue is all money coming in before expenses. Revenue is still a big number even if they’re losing money.
Also it’s 6% of turnover, not revenue. And world-wide, not just the EU.
I’m thinking of both. 6% of X revenue is too little, and X not making a positive net profit suggests that Musk wouldn’t even care about it because it ends up requiring just a fraction of his wealth to maintain it for the objective he has for it. That it might not be profitable and he’s still twerking around with it heavily suggests that he doesn’t care about revenue either.
This is not toothless…well it is a bit in that they constantly warn instead of imposing the fines but 6% of revenue has fuck all to do with net profit(which is always positive or else it would be a loss).
I mean, twitter is at the risk of bankruptcy so…
EU can only penalize him on revenue (not profit) in the EU. So likely small fries compared to the billions of dollars of devaluation and advertiser revenue he’s already squandered on his crusade.
He’s gonna fuck this up, too.
He won’t, we all know he won’t. He’d sooner get Twitter banned from Europe than actually try to improve his platform.
That is such a win though.
Although the powers that manipulate Elmo won’t like it when they can’t manipulate the politics in the EU anymore.
The intent is to ruin twitter. That was why he used $22B of Saudi money to buy it.
Has it been 24 hrs yet?
End of Wednesday in Brussels was ~7h ago. So, yes.
So, what is the followup?
Is his goal to get the app banned from Europe?
I could see that being the business plan.
A porn actress was made accountable for similar actions in less time and with more impact.
It’s almost as if billionaires are untouchable?
If that is Net Revenue, I have some bad news for the EU. 🤣🤣🤣
The “brilliance” of Elon’s plan: he is impervious to EU fines because he doesn’t make any money.
He makes a lot ofmoney - he just loses more.
If that is gross revenue, I have bad news for the EU. “X” is, IIRC, operating in the red since Musk bought it.
It’s revenue, not profit. “X, formerly Twitter” still gets paid by advertisers, even if the amount is much lower than it used to be.
Ah. Alright, fair enough, thanks for correcting my mistake.
Any phrase, request or threat in the from of “do X or be subject to the rules” is inherently flawed.
Why not skip the asking part and go straight to the enforcing the rules part because they’re, you know; the fucking rules.
^ sue em n block em
Is this the thing that finally makes Musk feel some pain? You can’t wiggle out of this one, EU law is pretty tight on this stuff.
Is this the thing that finally makes Musk feel some pain?
Not if his goal is to run Twitter into the ground. (And I’m about 3 months or so into believing it is.)
Although I can understand that perspective, I honestly think that he’s actually just very, very dumb and completely clueless about how money actually works and how businesses function. He’s rich enough to never have had to learn any of that and spend his way through failure after failure. I am absolutely certain that he believed that he’d run in there, steer the ship right, and all would be well.
steer the ship right
That was his goal but not the “right” that is usually referred to by this.
Yeah absolutely, be thought that it was easy because he didn’t pause to consider any of the confounding factors - the same mistake he always makes, self drive to Mars bases he gets fixated on the fact it’s possible and doesn’t really consider the many things making it difficult.
I think he thought that he’d go in and don’ta big lever that turns it from biasing the left and amplifying people hating billionaires then when he turned it off everyone would cheer and clap. He’s the typical idiot that has shitty political options and thinks everyone else secretly agrees bit only he’s breve enough to say it.
No he’s very smart in that he’s using Xitter to increase his influence, and thereby his wealth in the long term. Gonna cost him but he’ll probably come out net-positive, even if Xitter doesn’t.
Either you’re oblivious, or you’re being paid to prop up this “Elon’s just a big dummy” idea.
You know he had a fair bit of involvement in some other businesses, right? His destructive behaviour has been on an entirely different level from the moment he acquired Twitter.
The investors that gave him money to buy Twitter aren’t going to be happy if he intentionally squanders their money.
On the one hand, you insult me. Then you make a comment that supports my position. Very odd.
Fine, I’ll bite. How am I supporting your position?
Purging the images off social media will make it easier to deny that the atrocities ever happened. Keep them there in all their gory uglyness , perhaps put a spoiler tag over them to prevent someone with a feeble constitution from accidentally stumbling onto them and accidentally being triggered , but leave them there as evidence of the evil that happened.
It should be archived and put somewhere people can go and access it for historical and educational purposes, but that’s it. It’s horrible, and even knowing what’s happening is ALREADY bad enough.
There are already people denying it ever happened , this why it is needed.
The better would have been to ban Twitter. People and politics have to understand you can’t talk with irrational people.
Nationalize it.
Governments use twitter, a private, for-profit system, far too much for official communications. Governments should run their own communications systems that the public can interface with.
Poop emoji incoming
Or else what? Small fine? You’ll never see him.
Did you even read the text post? 6% of revenue, because some places have reasonable laws that charge percentages of revenue.
I read it. I was asking a rhetorical question. 6% of X revenue is not 6% of elon revenue, fwiw. Impact is still limited.
They don’t have the legal right to take money directly from Musk as nice as that would be.
Of course impact is going to be limited. The alternative being unlimited? I don’t think Musk deserves most of his wealth, but for the penelty of something like this to be taking literally all of it away would be insane. It’s always going to be limited. That’s basically what laws do. They should be proportional.
The alternative? What alternative?
My only point here is this isn’t going to have any major impact on his day to day operations regardless of how you try to spin my comments. Not sure why this is such an argument for you.
6% of revenue is apparently 300 million. IRC last year, twitter had 1.2 billion in interest payments, but only 1.1 billion in cash flow. Unless twitter has suddenly increased cash flow or repaid loans, a 300 million dollar fine may mean it’s impossible for twitter to repay interest payments. It’s potentially an existential threat and could tip twitter into bankrupcy.
It’s not nothing and it’s certainly better than nothing. And that 6%? That’s just the tip of the shit berg.
For example, Germany NetzDG fines can be as high as 50 million euros… PER CASE. Tech Crunch:
Obviously Musk is a top tier genius with a full legal department, and I’m sure twitter clamped down on illegal hate speech in the past half year so that only 600 cases are reported to German authorities, but that 300 million may just be the trickle of shit before the pipe fully bursts.
In Musk’s defense:
Twitter’s press office auto-replied with a poop emoji in response to an emailed request for comment.
The alternative to them being limited is unlimited. There’s no in between for those words. It’s either limited or it isn’t and is unlimited.
I get wanting more, but what percentage is “right” for you. There has to be a percent that’s acceptable, and anyone can always say it isn’t enough, unless it’s unlimited which would be rediculous.
The alternative to them being limited is unlimited. There’s no in between for those words. It’s either limited or it isn’t and is unlimited.
Mind… blown
Well, it’s revenue not profit, so theoretically it could be money out of his pocket that the social media platform formerly known as Twitter perhaps wouldn’t be able to pay by itself.
