The letter, which was spammed on Lemmy and deleted multiple times, just linked to other SubStack blogs as “evidence”. Come on, people
I was disappointed in the lack of critical thinking skills in those threads. I thought Lemmy users were smarter than that. Hopefully we can put all these conspiracies to bed.
There’s a sizable number of people intentionally looking the other way because they think they can fight fire with fire, utilizing the same conspiracy theory thinking that the Right routinely gets away to shape public discourse.
I have to say, the thought crossed my mind. But Dems could never pull it off.
I have to say, the thought crossed my mind. But Dems could never pull it off.
I would hope that’s because we won’t stand for it. All I could think reading one of the previous threads on this letter was “these people are just as dumb as MAGAs but in the other direction”.
It’s no different than playing by the rules (or lack thereof) of the game like Bannon or Stone play in their strategizing with Trump: Perception is Reality. Ends Justify Means.
Maybe not along this issue, but yes Democrats must realize just how poorly educated and gullible the electorate is and start catering their message accordingly. In spite of moral reservations, fear & anger are powerful motivators.
Yes, Dems couldn’t pull it off because the coalition consists of a large number of ethically-bound and higher educated individuals who aren’t willing to play dirty as a means to an end… Even when that end is far superior than what the opposition seeks.
People are idiots everywhere.
Everybody is an idiot sometimes.
Even you.
Not me tho. Thankfully I’m flawless and don’t have to deal with the same nonsense of ever being wrong.
All I see is the poster on Fox Mulder’s wall that said “I want to believe.”
There is always a foreign backed clown trying to challenge every presidential election. Some will always fall for that garbage. Not enough to… You know try to hang the vice president or anything. The left just isn’t that gullible.
Ha, imagine how incredibly easy it is to be a Republican politician.
I don’t think the conspiracies are going to go away. I remember when Trump got shot that there were threads with quite a few people convinced it was all staged to get him sympathy votes. I still occasionally see it brought up all this time later.
I wanted it to be true so bad, and sure there were some illegal actions taken (Elmo), it’s not enough to overturn anything. It’s okay to feel defeated, but not to ignore facts. We lost.
Side note, watch Veritasium’s video on “smarter people get this question wrong”, it talks about how your political position can blind your critical thinking skills and is important to remember. You can take nothing at face value, even your own thoughts.
Anyone convinced they’re immune to propaganda, bias or plain human error is extremely vulnerable to being wrong and never realising it.
Relatedly: One of the easiest mistakes to make regarding fields you’re no expert in is to underestimate just how much there is to know that you don’t (or maybe nobody does). I’m very prone to that one, personally.
That was a really interesting video!
I just watched the first question in that video and the actual correct answer was incredibly obvious within about 2 seconds of seeing the chart, does that mean I’m an idiot?
What the fuck is this stroke of a title?
The claims made in a ‘duty to warn’ letter addressed to presidential nominee Kamala Harris are - according to our research - misleading.
Sorry, but this is standard journalistic practice. The sentence is correct english, even in its unedited form, albeit in the same way that buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo is correct english.
I do think it’s a practice that needs to be reconsidered in the interest of making journalism more accessible to everyone, but for now you just gotta learn how to read it.
Have to disagree with you here. I’m not a journalist, but I read easily digestible headlines all day. I had to go back and carefully parse this sentence one word at a time. It’s just a bad headline.
Nope sorry. The style, in the case of this sentence & that famous Buffalo cow-pie, has pushed both sentences beyond people’s ability to understand it without additional processing time. Therefore the style is bad, and should feel bad.
That journalistic style is really only to lower word count anyway, so that headlines could fit onto printed newspaper pages, & maybe to save on ink. I don’t fuckin’ care about a 100 year old practice, nor the editors who sacrificed my understanding so that they could save a buck or 5 seconds. I care about understanding a goddamn sentence.
Yes, it’s almost like I said exactly the same thing in my second paragraph.
But the reality is that it is the standard practice right now, and no matter how much you and I may agree that it needs to be reconsidered, your current options are a) Learn how to read it, or b) Throw a tantrum like a big baby and refuse to ever engage with any mainstream journalism until industry practices change.
Your call, doesn’t affect me either way.
The whole article does read as a google translate from another language. Is so hard to follow. Still the article only cites Spoonamore had wrong numbers cause later came more accurate ones. It does not address the main issue that the bullet votes are higher than other elections. Still I’m taking everyone involved with a grain of salt.I guess that sadly we’ll never know the truth.
There’s nothing confusing about it IMO.
This is the difference. Both the right and the left have their cranks, but the ones on the left never get mainstream acceptance. While on the right, they make the crank president.
Because the left is, for the most part, intellectually honest enough to be skeptical of broad claims that seem too good to be true. Even ones that ostensibly benefit them.
While the right just grabs hold with both hands at anything they read immediately and start plastering it all over social media.
One side has the most basic critical thinking skills, and one side is lacking in that.
Seems like intellectual honesty is a weakness…
Saying intellectually honest makes it sound like they are better people. But it is just the platform they run on. The two parties essentially pick sides on any possibly divisive issue that gains some traction, because polarization benefits them. Covid for example, 30 years ago, both side were provax. But a vaccine mandate wouldn’t happened. As soon as the whole mask thing came up, one side saw people unhappy about wearing masks as an opportunity to divide the populace. So both sides moved to the extremes that already fit thier platforms.
Saying intellectually honest makes it sound like they are better people
That’s because they are. And I’m tired of pretending that they aren’t. Treating anti-vax anti-mask idiots as though their opinion is as valid as scientific fact just emboldens them and leads to the kind of shit that is going on in America right now. These people need to be mocked, harshly and repeatedly until their children are so embarrassed by them that their bullshit gets stamped out in a generation or two.
I quote the great Isaac Asimov:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
That cult of ignorance needs to be stamped the fuck out, and the way to do that isn’t by caring about their feelings and pretending that their flat-earth, anti-vax opinions have any merit.
I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I am saying that the majority of poloticians personal beliefs no longer mirror what they politically project. They could litterally take either side on any subject and spew it’s support just as vehemently. Which side gets them the most votes is where they go.
I don’t have any numbers, but we know that many anti-vax politicians and pundents actually got the vaccine and continue to do so. The same is true on both sides. Being on the right side of an issue doesn’t make them a better person. They are still just someone who will support whatever gets them elected. That’s the job.
I support the platform, not the person. I despise how the person makes a living. And based on how they must leave thier morals at home to be sucsessful, I am pretty sure I would despise the person to.Ah yes. I misunderstood. I agree with your explanation.
People need to accept who we are, collectively, as a country. We chose this shit. It’ll be a wild ride.
Perhaps people would choose something else if third parties had equal access and we changed how we vote to get rid of the spoiler effect.
People need to accept who we are, collectively,
To do what?
To avoid immediately resorting to denial and conspiracy theories like some kind of smooth brained conservative, I reckon.
Um… I guess.
I was thinking of this phrase as being a little thought terminating. Like, instead of addressing the problems democrats have with outreach and mass appeal, etc., we just kind of sulk in the bed we’ve supposedly made ourselves.
I hadn’t thought of the quelling conspiracies angle, though.
Yeah, it’s definitely a “¿Por Qué No Los Dos?” situation. The Democrats need to figure out how to not come across as Republican Lite, and avoid that thought terminating stuff like you said, but damn is our culture also deeply flawed.
Spoonamore doesn’t have shit and has admitted as much when pressed. The guy basically contests results that he does not like. He also does not know what a bullet ballot is. That term deals with ranked choice elections where someone only picks top candidates. The term he is looking for is undervoting.
I get it. When you are shown the enthusiasm at Harris’ rallies and how absolutely batshit Trump is, it’s pretty easy to conclude that the election must have been tampered with. But there is no evidence that it was directly tampered with. Republicans do a lot of shit to mess with votes but that is all known shit like making voting more difficult in certain areas, gerrymandering, voter roll purges, etc. They are not directly tampering with the presidential election on a mass scale nor are they competent enough to.
I was expecting it to look like a close race where Trump would cheat using the courts.
That didn’t happen.
North Carolina
Spoonamore alleged that the purported hacking and fraud in North Carolina proved to be “the most extreme” and that “the public results indicate over 350,000 voters cast a ballot for Trump and no other race.” However, this is false.
According to the North Carolina State Board of Elections’ website, as of Nov. 21, 5,722,556 voters cast ballots. Of those, 5,699,152 ballots displayed votes in the race for president. The website also reported that 5,592,243 ballots bore votes for the state’s governor’s race. A comparison of the numbers for total votes and the gubernatorial race would reveal the maximum number of possible “bullet vote” ballots for all presidential candidates. The difference between the two numbers is 130,313 votes — a count nowhere near the 350,000 votes stated by Spoonamore. Trump received 183,048 more of North Carolinian’s votes than Harris.
Welp.
That’s not how this works folks. You are supposed to ignore all evidence to the contrary, then spend the next 4 years claiming the election was stolen and whining like a spoiled toddler
He told a good, plausible story. The count claims were the first thing I was going to verify, and Snopes pointed right to the actual source.
Thank you! I just needed someone to check that dudes math, very happy they did.
I’ve been peaking back on Reddit to a few sub reddits, r/somethingiswrong2024 is the main one. There’s r/verify2024 and r/houstonwade as well that have some interesting ideas and points brought up about all this. They simply dismissed this snopes report, stating snopes had lost credibility over the past years but not sure how true that is. I don’t know if I was just getting a contact high from the copium over there, I have hope still, I want to believe there is something in the works but ultimately without concrete, indisputable, outright blatant cheating thoroughly documented, there’s not chance of overturning the election. Especially without stirring up the magats nest and causing civil unrest. So do we just stick it out for the next two years and hope we can freely vote and try to gain some sanity back into this country?
There isn’t. The numbers don’t add up correctly anymore. You can look yourself by checking any other race in a state with the highest number of votes and then the presidential race in that state. If the difference is less than Trump’s margin of victory then there cannot be enough bullet ballots to have made a difference.
This is the case in the crucial state of Pennsylvania. There are about 70,000 less votes in the Senate race than the Presidential race. Trump’s margin over Harris is about 100,000 votes. That means there’s at least 30,000 votes in the margin of victory that voted for Senator and thus are not Bullet Ballots.
The math doesn’t math. And the cyber security stuff was always highly suspect. They basically asserted the machines were online with no evidence that was the case and no credible theory for how they would be reprogrammed to be online.
two years? I’m afraid it’s four
Four with Trump, but in two years we might be able to flip the house and senate and make sure Donald’s last 2 years in office are miserable.
That’s what I’m sayin, hopefully in two years things are not better unfortunately, that’s what needs to happen to have the average American voter pay attention and they again vote out those in power. If this thing isn’t already fixed
I feel like the folks who felt super justified in not voting are now obsessive on this. but. but. other people were supposed to get us the democrat against our will…
That is not my experience at all. I’m mostly seeing people the, “Harris ran a perfect campaign,” crowd buying in on this one.
who is like ran a pefect campaign? no politician runs a perfect campaign any more than anything else is perfect in the world. It was fine relative to any other, but elections should not be determined by how well campaigns are run. If politicians put up a an accurate list of their accomplishments and platform online and participate in debates that should all that be needed for an electorate to vote in the modern age.
who is like ran a pefect campaign?
Joy Reid. She was very impressed that Queen Latifah endorsed her. It’s made her into a sort of a poster child for liberals who are delusional about the Democrats flaws.
So your saying Joy Reid ran a PERFECT campaign. No flaws, no errors, of any kind. She is some kind of automaton or divine being. No one does anything perfect.
…no. I’m saying Joy Reid, an MSNBC pundit, believes Kamala Harris ran a perfect campaign.
Well yeah and all sorts of fox news pundits think trumps campaign and everything he does is perfect. Pundits gonna pundit (lie)
…OK. Did you think I was agreeing with her when I called her the poster child for liberal delusion?
Why are you okay with your fellow citizens being under represented by First-past-the-post voting?
Do you still beat your wife (or husband)? Seriously where the hell did your question come from in relation to the chain. I don’t believe I have seen anyone, anywhere on here or even way back on reddit and shit that has ever defended first past the post or said it was preferable. Its like citizens united. No one ever seem to defend it or recognize it as legit except the folks that made the ruling yet it does not get changed.
Yeah, we’re the people that always love to talk about evidence. So, let’s make sure we’re applying that principle evenly and demanding and looking at evidence for claims we like the sound and feeling of.
Well there are irregularitiea and a manual recount would either provide evidence or it would prove that no such thing happened.
You need evidence to justify a recount when they’re normally only expected to shift the results by less than a percentage point. They’re not cheap, you don’t just do them whenever people feel like it.
I think that’s enough evidence to warrant such recount.
There’s a irregularity that, did not happen in prior elections and only in swing states, not even neighboring ones. It could be nothing or could be valid.
You are saying that there’s no evidence, but with electronic voting machines the only time you get evidence is if you verify it.
The most mind-blowing thing to me is that the less people are familiar with software engineering the more trusting they are of electronic voting machines and when there are irregularities just dismissing it.
Tell me, what evidence you would need to say “ok, I think we should recount these machine counted votes”.
What specific irregularities? I haven’t heard anything credible yet. This article is about how some of the irregularities being claimed are actually falsehoods people made up, the numbers they use are incorrect.
Evidence could really be anything, a witness, a whistleblower, a report of some sort. A shift in voting patterns doesn’t really qualify is all, since that happens all the time, and is very normal.
Well it says in the article. Large number of bullet votes that didn’t happen in the past and only happened in the swing states.
With electronic voting machines how there could be witness if fraud happens inside, you need to recount to verify this. That’s the only way.
The article specifies that the bullet votes claim used incorrect numbers. The man lied, or was misinformed or something.
Witness was just one example of one type of evidence I would accept. Many forms of fraud can happen that can be witnessed. I also listed others.
“Bullet votes” completely jibe with the narrative that a small but significant percentage of Trump voters are willfully low-information, so un-invested in the democratic process that they can’t be bothered to take the time even to vote a straight party ticket, and think that voting for a single strong-man will fix all their problems. The non-electoral factors behind all this are deeply troubling, and many of them are criminal, but for the actual voting there’s no need to invent a conspiracy when simple shittiness will do.
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The bullet ballot nonsense was started by a Republican kook that’s made fake election claims about every election going all the way back to 2008.
Definitely something to ignore.
So we upgraded from blaming minority voters to literally Trump’s own 2020 election mouthpiece lmao.
Just saying, with that orange turd, every accusation is a confession
It seems people just aren’t going to accept elections any more. Yeah trump was the most blatant and harmful but the democrats were pushing russiagate until it hit its dead end and now this.
Starting to think democracy may not be able to survive the internet
How do you define Russiagate?
Are you saying Russia didn’t/does not meddle in elections? Or that Trump and his team didn’t have ties to it? Or that Russian influence didn’t actually tip the scales? Or something else?
- Yeah they at least tried to
- Probably but those ties seem very loose. From what I can tell there wasn’t much organization at all in the trump campaign , much less effective coordination with Russia. It wasn’t Kissinger coordinating with south Vietnam to keep the war going or Reagan talking to Iran to not free the hostages.
- Maybe but that’s only because the scales were so even. It may be a reason she lost, we can’t know because we don’t know how many people it actually flipped but my guess is very small compared to the other reasons clinton lost. I don’t think it invalidates the election though as fundamentally it was still Americans freely choosing Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton through the broken electoral college. This happens quite often, like the examples above, even in this election it looks like netanyahu was holding off on a ceasefire in Lebanon to keep Biden from getting a win, that doesn’t invalidates the election though.
Also I think democrats used it as a cope and scape goat for there electoral problems instead of addressing the actual major reasons people voted for trump. They failed to learn there lesson in 2016 and now here we are.
Loose? Are you uninformed or purposefully spreading disinformation?
I have no idea if it tipped the scales either and I agree we’ll never know. But it seems important to point out the fact that the Trump campaign consistently cooperated with a hostile foreign government. If you want to call that “pushing russiagate”… Sure? I guess?
They failed to learn there lesson in 2016 and now here we are.
You realize they won in 2020, right? So, did Dems learn a lesson which won them 2020 and then forget this time around? It kinda seems like you’re just spewing nonsense.
Kind of burying the lead on that quote:
The investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities
So trump didn’t try and punish a foreign power that helped him get in, and instead talked to them after the fact. I guarantee he’s talking to netanyahu right now, but no one cares about that. There’s nothing in that quote proving he was coordinating during the election.
2016 was lost because the democrats are losing the working class because they didnt offer them anything and were just pointing to the horror of trump and hoping it would scare voters to there side. In 2020 Biden was pushing a fairly progressive program with build back better plus people wanted an adult at the wheel to handle covid. Then kamala ran the same campaign as Clinton running on minor iterative improvements that most people won’t see while pointing to the boogie man of trump and hoping that will scare people, and it failed again, even worse this time.
Democrats need to listen there base and try and win the working class back. Biden did, he opened his doors to Bernie and Warren and gave them a place in the party. He was rewarded for that with record voter turnout. This time we didn’t have a primary and dissent was stifled due to the threat of trump.
At least that’s my view of it, why do you think we lost?, we can at least say this time it’s not Russian interference.
