I don’t tip as well. But I live in a civilised country where everyone gets at least a tolerable minimum wage. No one is paying me extra money just for doing my job. So I won’t either. If they want more, they need to talk to their employer. It’s not my responsibility.
Would I live in the United States of Idiots though, where a severe lack of ethical economic behaviour is observable, I indeed would tip the waiters, as that’s sadly their financial lifeline.
I’d like to add that in the US people rarely think of it as extra either. In most places in the US we also don’t include taxes on the menu listed prices, but you know they will be on the final bill going in. The semantics of whether there should be tipping or not is hardly the line people should be arguing. What should be argued when discussing tipping is management abuses around tipping (like paying out others, stealing tips, or forced tip sharing), mandated minimum tipping, what items should be tipped and how much.
There is a ton of room to debate tipping culture in the US, but complaining about doing so isn’t the right place.
-Anon comes from cuntry half the size of average American state.
-Anon fails to realize the ezy button ruling a nation of 3rd cousins.
Totally. Everyone being different is the reason we’re okay with unnecessary poverty in this country.
Replace waiter with “CEO” and you begin to understand why socialists believe what they do
Except instead of 25%, it’s 250%.
And the company owners do not walk or have to deal with customers.
Of course they don’t walk, they ride pelotons
It must be hard not knowing even the most basic math. How is this CEO getting more money than I pay for the meal?
Sorry, I probably should have explained better, it’s a bit of intentionally misusing the meaning of the term “value” for a joke - the original greentext said “25% of the value of the food”, so if you think of the amount of money required to purchase the raw ingredients and the labour required to create the final meal, that could be considered 100% of the food’s value. So if the food cost $5 to make, the company would sell it at $12.50 to get 250% of the “value” of the food.
But the term “value” usually refers to whatever the customer is willing to pay in exchange for a product, so the joke has an extra meaning - the CEO demands to be paid 2.5x more than anyone is actually willing to pay for it.
Ironically though, CEOs getting paid more than the value of any of the actual sales they generate isn’t uncommon, especially in tech. There are a number of economic sectors (like tech) that function effectively as ponzi schemes. “Venture capitalist” firms invest in tech companies which never actually generate a profit, in the hopes that they will at some point hit it big and make a shitload of profit - which does happen, every now and again: Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.
Eventually, most tech companies reach a point where they’re pretty much about to collapse, then they’re bought out by some other company - either a larger tech company that wants to acquire their intellectual property, or some other company to strip them of assets or just hold onto the company for some other purpose.
The majority of the VC-funded tech sector is completely unprofitable and held up entirely by investment. For example, OpenAI has billions of dollars worth of debt and has never made any kind of profit.
We are well overdue for this bubble bursting and having another crash akin to the .com bubble
Hey, that’s fair, and I obviously didn’t get the play on meaning.
And as for the rest, I was flabbergasted when Amazon only had losses of $400 million one year and their stocks went up. Amazon went on to produce some value, and profits, and then screw over a number of businesses and employees with their market dominance in the online store business before completely abandoning any standards for the sake of profits. So the only thing I’m certain of in the stock market or industry values in general is that I’m woefully unqualified to determine what’s valuable or not.
*Manages the business, pretty sure that is their actual job, but…
I believe in socialism because the lions share of value should be returned to those who exerted the majority of effort, not the inverse, which is the stupid system we have now
Yeah. Co-ops of sufficient size have CEOs it’s just that the workers are the board
banger of a comment, you deserve some sort of compensation for this contribution
They missed a step. "Waiter is paid below the already sad minimum wage because tips are somehow factored into their paycheck. "
Also don’t forget the folks working in the back of the house. Tip if you’re able, despite our shitty system.
Some parts of the US, not all
I’m sorry, but is “tipping out” no longer a thing, where the servers are expected to give a percentage of the tips to the hosts, bussers, food runners, kitchen staff, and anyone else who supported them that night?
I’ve never worked in the service industry, so that might still be a thing, but even if it is, that shouldn’t have to exist.
Then, are tips included in the waiters taxable income, or is it more like extra money not contributing to the common thnijgs ? (genuine auestion)
Fully agree with this but the problem is that restaurant owners pay their staff shit
Give proper wages to servers and the tipping can be history
MA had a ballot initiative that would have gradually brought the minimum tipped wage in line with the state’s minimum wage over the next 5 years or something.
Restaurants posted signs at their door to vote NO and that 90 percent of tipped workers opposed the bill.
A bartender I know told me that I should vote no because if it passed then restaurants would have to reduce headcount and servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
So it seems like the restaurants just threatened people with losing their jobs and so they voted NO and convinced others to do the same.
The measure didn’t pass.
I waited tables for years. (I was good at it, and even helped train everyone at a new restaurant.) Hourly pay would have definitely lowered my wage, but it’s still better than tipping. It’d be cool to get hourly wage, or even commission, so that your pay isn’t based on people’s whims.
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
(Note: I use the general “you” a lot. You’re just repeating what someone else said, I assume you don’t have any wait staff working for you personally.) You can fire people for being bad at their jobs. Why do you have bad staff working for you, tips or no? How about: Unattractive people will get paid just as well as traditionally attractive people. Minorities will get paid just as well as whites. Your salary doesn’t hinge on whether you can sneak extra stuff to your tables without your boss finding out or putting up with sexual harassment. Salary means that my paycheck comes from the restaurant and I don’t have to try to balance the interests of the people paying me against the restaurant.
servers who were bad at their jobs would get paid just as well as servers that offer good service.
Black servers would be paid as well as white servers, servers whose chefs fucked up would be paid as well as lucky servers, mice would chase cats and the world would turn inside out!
yes and if you think this comment is off base, question your privelage and motives because you are empirically incorrect!
This study examined the effects of server race, customer race, and their interaction on restaurant tips while statistically controlling for customers’ perceptions of service quality and other variables. The findings indicate that consumers of both races discriminated against Black service providers by tipping them less than White service providers. Journal of Applied Psychology 2008
Yeah all of that is what is known in the business as propaganda. The more money you have the more propaganda you can put out and restaurant businesses have a lot of spare money because they don’t pay their workers shit.
Reminds me of when I worked at Wal-Mart and everyone was horrified at the idea of getting raises because it meant prices would go up…
No, it’s because their manager who manages the business(hypothetically) isn’t paying them.
I also don’t tip
Because I don’t go to restaurants with servers
I vote with my wallet that the whole concept is stupid, I hate paying 20% for someone to be fake nice and move food 10 feet
This is the way. By going but not tipping you’re just fucking over the server, not the business. To hurt the business’ bottom line you have to not go. Or dine and dash, but that then fucks the server harder while also affecting the business.
That why they said they don’t go to restaurants with servers. Either go to a restaurant where you buy food at a counter and bus yourself, or go to a tipless resturant with servers. Obviously don’t just screw over the server.
Though, on a large scale, if everyone just stopped tipping all at once, nobody would be willing to work for server wages anymore, and restaurants would have to increase pay or get fucked. Too bad our economy is based on fighting for survival, and not the profit motive, because the reality is that it would just fuck people’s lives up really bad.
And I was agreeing, thus starting the comment with “that is the way,” which I’m assuming you missed.
And sure, and I’m assuming you mean more than $7.25, but there’d be a lot of missed rent and power bills along the way until they catch up.
What about dine and dash, while leaving a cash tip?
9/10 chance that goes to cover part of your bill and the waiter gets fucked, but if you could guarantee they pocket it that’d work.
Hmm, maybe slip it to them when asking for the bill?
Sure, that might work, or give it to them up front (protip btw, you want GREAT service? Frontload that tip, your server will break the law for you if you do that lol).
That’ll get them fired for looking like they conspired with you
There’s a good chance the restaurant will take it all since they were “owed”.
It’s not exactly legal, but a lot of places will charge the server for a done and dash.
Hmm, what about fake checks? Surely there’s an angle here where the server isn’t punished, I don’t go to jail, and the restaurant takes a hit.
They should be replaced with automated mechanical food shuttles. I would tip those.
Why would you tip those?
How else do you plan to knock them over?
he tips his fedora
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How would you know that, they didn’t say what their income is. They said they were voting with their wallet, not that they couldn’t afford to do it.
I’d pay people to fuck off and not talk to me.
I see “personal service” as an annoyance.
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Not me who goes around assuming everybody’s poor, mate.
Here in Europe, waiters actually get a living wage, and still we’re expected to tip??? Like yo fuck that! I never go to regular restaurants unless it’s with a work colleague that refuses to go to the canteen. Oh my sweet canteen, so cheap yet plentiful, satisfying my stomach, mind and wallet, a true blessing.
As a European. What are you talking about? That’s certainly not the case in my part of Europe. And we don’t even have a minimum wage. (Officially)
Really? Holy shit… I’m in Czechia. And we have both living wages for waiters (it’s been driving our restaurant prices unusually high lately) and a minimum wage. Altho the minimum wage is quite low. Roughly 650€ of full-time when converted. Thankfully I haven’t seen jobs listed that low, I only know it because I managed to negotiate a payed internship and that’s what they gave me before my raise.
Oh don’t get me wrong. We got living wages for all full time jobs. Including waiters. We just don’t have a minimum wage (officially). It’s sorted out by the unions.
tipping should be illegal because it leads to underpaid workers. but until tipping becomes illegal, you are a fucking asshole if you don’t tip. you’re not sticking it to the man, you’re just shitting on a minimum wage worker because m-muh principles. grow up or move to a country where they don’t tip
I hate that argument though. “You shouldn’t enjoy things because you should pay more than the advertised, because that’s just how things are”. Change doesn’t happen unless change happens. Basically, if you want tipping culture to change, you actually have to start changing tipping culture.
And you think the best way to do that is by stopping waitresses from being able to feed their kids? Because that’s the only thing that will happen if you don’t tip
Overwhelmingly when polled, waits staff much prefer to keep tipping over a living wage. They make far more from tips. Trust me, me not giving a waitress a tip isn’t the line that keeps he kids from dying of hunger.
You alone won’t, but you would definitely be directly contributing to her being closer to said line
Ultimately, the restaurant industry’s management tier collectively agreeing with wait staff that wait staff doesn’t require a working wage and depending on handouts from customers is a fine solution is the problem.
Quite honestly, that isn’t my problem. I’m there for some food, not to be guilted into running a charity function to make up for greedy management and a staff that prefers this bullshit.
If they had to pay their staff more, prices would be higher. If prices are higher, not as many people can afford to go, resulting in prices going up even more. When waiters can rely on tips instead of just the hourly wage, they are given the chance of getting a really nice tip from someone who is generous, resulting in more money than without the tips. By not tipping, you are relying on the generosity of others to keep the workers you aren’t tipping above the line. If you think they don’t deserve to be tipped, don’t go there, otherwise you’re being a mooch in the society you live in, even if it’s in a minor way.
Sorry, but I pay for the food and if I feel its deserved, the service. Being a mooch would be not paying g for the food.
Do away with tipping and food prices go up by the cost of paying workers a fair wage. To the consumer it ends up being an even trade. Ultimately, the only group getting hurt is the owners.
It works fine in other countries but can’t in the US because…?
We could start paying the entire bill as a tip to mess with the restaurant owner. Keep the same amount, just let it go to the waiter instead.
Just state that the food wasn’t good enough, but the service was great!
Would this be illegal? You are still paying for your food.
I believe I’m a somewhat generous tipper.
Just today I rounded up a 23 up to 25. Euros that is. And I’m in Finland.
This is considered a generous tip, most don’t tip at all.
When I drove a taxi basically if I had a shift on Christmas eve, then I’d get tips. Otherwise it was like at most 3-5% of riders who gave tips. And this was back in oughts, when people actually used cash. (I literally never had someone tip me on a card when driving a taxi.)
Makes me glad I live in a state that got rid of the tipped minimun and just has one across the board minimum wage.
I’m so sad we voted against it. Legalizing magic mushrooms had more support than making tipped minimum wage the same as normal minimum wage.
Fellow mass-hole! Felt the same way, even our allegedly liberal Governor came out against both. I talked to servers and bartenders who thought they’d make a lot less money, or their restaurant would go out of business if it passed. Presumably because the owners told them so.
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price. the system is designed to screw us over.
Just like groceries don’t include tax in the advertised price.
Nah, that’s just in America, because Americans are dumb. Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic and why would we do that.
(if Americans aren’t dumb, why did they vote for Trump twice?)
(I finally found an upside to the Trump presidency!)
Almost 70 million people voted against him, myself included. We’re not a monolith. Also, only 11 states tax groceries.
Americans are dumb af. Source: am American
Tipping doesn’t exist here BTW, because it’s idiotic
Idk where “here” is, but I’ve seen plenty of foreign countries’s restaurants adopting tipping, particularly at higher end establishments, as business owners realize they can just ask for extra and get it.
American culture is still seen as something to emulate in many parts of the world. Hopefully less so after the next four years. We’ve had the same stupid tipping culture emerge here as well - seems like a sign that taxes aren’t high enough at the top end.
American culture is still seen as something to emulate in many parts of the world. Hopefully less so after the next four years.
We used to export our culture to our satraps in Mexico and Germany and Japan and Korea. But now we tend to import more than we export.
I don’t see this as cultural though. It’s just a money thing. People ask because they know their customers will say yes. That’s all there is to if
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Australians don’t tip, and Canadians are just Americans with a French accent.
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It pits the well being of the customer against the well being of the server. It’s a pretty evil system. Pay everyone a living wage. Everybody deserves to live.
To be fair, no products sold (that I’m aware of) include tax on the sticker price, and here in TX groceries (unprepared food) are not subject to state sales tax.
Exactly.
The reason, from my understanding, is that taxes on products can vary from region to region, so it’s impractical to expect the store to have the price listed with the sales tax included, especially on advertisements. The sales tax in my state can vary by 1% or so between cities/counties, and advertisements are frequently at the state level, if not national level. My next door city has a 0.10% lower sales tax rate vs my city, and the resort area in the county has 1.5% higher sales tax than the rest of the county.
Food is taxed at a different rate, and the tax is split about 50/50 between state and local. Our state has been discussing ending the tax on food, but that would only end the state portion (1.75%), so the local tax (1.25% pretty much everywhere) would remain.
AFAIK, Europe includes it because it’s imposed at the government level (I think EU?), not the local level.
I still think it’s dumb, and it should at least be on the price stickers in the store so I can have a chance at estimating the final bill before I get to the register.
Waiter deals with the general public. They deserve it
I mean, they deserve to make a liveable wage regardless of whether someone tips.
Their (livable) wage is supposed to be payed by their employer. The customer is not their employer.
It’s a tax thing. If tips aren’t part of the food price, they’re not part of revenue and not taxable. If they are, assuming same compensation as tips would generate, taxes would be higher.
I say put that on the food price. It’s a few cents to the dollar difference. Plus, variations in revenue shouldn’t be a thing an employee should worry about. And obviously it would do away with the whole bartering at the checkout.
I always leave a tip, but asking ME to pay more for someone ELSE’s rudeness is insane.
I work with multi million dollar companies in an office. Companies are people.
Why no tip? I do job
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can’t you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
I’d rather eat a frozen pizza and drink beer in the basement for 1/6th the price.
Ya’ll are all wrong. Tipping is to compensate the 2 dollars they make an hour. It’s a shitty system, but that’s the deal. If you don’t want to tip then don’t go eat at a restaurant that supports that system. It’s not some luxury add-on for excellent service (though it can be). It is purely to make up for the extremely low wages. Does anyone remember the rest of the dialog in this scene?
That only applies in shit states that allow that wage fuckery. There are several states where the minimum doesnt change based on whether the job receives tips.
This is one of the problems with the argument online. Too many off us have different realities around them. Where I’m at they get a pretty healthy minimum (~$17/h) + tips.
Being a waiter at a decent restaurant is quite lucrative in my area. I don’t want to change that for the person, after all, the waiter is getting a cut off every check. It’s like a form of profit sharing! However, I’d rather just have the prices on the menu reflect reality and the business handle all the dispersion of pay without me and my feelings getting manipulated for an extra 5% (after the previously established 18% tip standard was deemed too low by people who get tipped that for decades.)
this would be cool info to have. do you think there is a state by state or municipality breakdown that shows the degree to which me not tipping is a burden to the staff? /gen would be slay to have in my bookmarks!
Doesn’t get paid properly to deliver a service you’re relying on.
Tipping culture is stupid, but that doesn’t mean you get to fuck over workers by refusing the tips they rely on. If you want to fight that fight, take it up with the business or your legislator, ya cheap asshole.
Restaurant owners everywhere would be so happy to know you think the customers are the ones fucking over the workers
Do you imagine that the people refusing to pay tips aren’t fucking over the workers, or do you believe that because customers are fucking over workers, the restaurant owners can’t be fucking over the workers too?
It doesn’t matter - either take is transparently stupid.
I believe it is on the owners to provide fair wages to workers. When the plumber, electrician, mechanic, sales rep, or whoever else tells you they don’t make a livable wage, you’re going to feel it is your responsibility to tip them too?
If you don’t want to tip people that can’t otherwise make minimum wage, use restaurants that pay minimum wage. You don’t get to steal those workers’ labour because the restaurateurs and legislators have failed them.
Others industries have to pay minimum wage - your contribution isn’t factored into their base requirements for survival. This is a silly comparison. Do I support an increase in minimum wages? Abso-fucking-lutely - but electricians aren’t routinely being paid less than $3/hr.
You recognize that restauratuers and legislators are the ones failing workers, yet you attribute the lost wages to the paying customer. What can we as paying customers do to fail the workers so that you recognize restauratuers and legislators as being responsible for their fair wages?
If you fail to tip them, you’ve failed them too. It’s not complex.
You argument absolves the restaurateurs if consistently applied because the legislators failed them upstream (that’s not to speak of absolving the legislators because of the voters) - I’m saying the legislators failed them, then the restaurateurs failed them, then the people that refused to tip them failed them. There’s not a single point of failure, but that doesn’t mean it’s OK for you to decide to be the ultimate point of failure.
are you allergic to believing that two things can be true at once
oof another internet user who thinks two things can’t be true at once 💔
“yeah i know i slashed your tires but at least i’m not as bad as the oil and motor lobbies that make it so you’re reliant on your car to fucking commute to work and not starve, you should be grateful next time” — that’s how you sound 🫶
