cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17617609

They supposedly can be disabled in settings- but we all know that won’t last. They’re going full Microsoft Skype mode and it’s only a matter of time.

  • Zworf@beehaw.org
    99·
    6 个月前

    Good. I hope people will move away from it soon. I hate Discord for banning third-party clients and datamining my system for installed apps. So I’ve never really used it.

    It does mean I’m excluded from some FOSS projects’ support like Home Assistant but to hell with that :P

    • Zetta@mander.xyz
      32·
      6 个月前

      Hopefully those FOSS projects will gain some sense as discord becomes more shit and will leave. One can hope.

      • ErilElidor@feddit.de
        21·
        6 个月前

        I never understood how a chatroom took off as a tool to document stuff. Who seriously thinks this is a good idea? 😵

        • dan@upvote.au
          4·
          6 个月前

          If a project only has Discord for support (no docs, no bug tracker), I’m not using it. Don’t want to deal with trying to find anything in Discord.

    • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      18·
      6 个月前

      ideally such changes to advertising and the ToS arbitration clause removing consumer rights will help give a lot of the open-source communities a gentle push to get off of discord. It’s become far too central to too many communities and is impossible to search for knowledge.

    • Ms. ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml
      5·
      6 个月前

      I’ve only ever used it in browser to limit what it can see on my machine. I was told by one of my coding professors that one of the signs of a virus is if it monitors what apps you’re running, I’ve been cautious ever since of anything that does that (obviously it isn’t the only sign and isn’t instant virus bin, like I have an app that monitors GPU usage and throttles apps to keep from cooking my machine)

    • dan@upvote.au
      1·
      6 个月前

      People will move away, sure, but to another proprietary service that’ll do the same thing in a year or two.

    • Kaldo@beehaw.org
      14·
      6 个月前

      Hope we get some comparable options yet, I only know of matrix and that one allegedly has tons of security and performance issues.

      • baseless_discourse@mander.xyz
        10·
        6 个月前

        Can you list some security/performance/feature comparison between matrix and discord? I don’t have the need for these class of product, but I am trying to get the hype behind discord.

        • Kaldo@beehaw.org
          8·
          6 个月前

          I don’t know about discord issues, the hype behind is it mostly that it’s free, very convenient, feature rich and can easily integrate bots. Its the go-to place to build communities nowadays.

          Matrix issues that I read about can be seen here https://telegra.ph/why-not-matrix-08-07 . I haven’t done my own research tho so I don’t know if all of this is (still) true

          • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
            7·
            6 个月前

            Almost all of those issues are due to federation. Lemmy shares most of them. Considering that we’re on Lemmy, I’d say it’s mostly a non-issue for us. Maybe use something else for encryption-required communications, but other than that it sounds fine to me.

            • Kaldo@beehaw.org
              6·
              6 个月前

              Lemmy is a public forum, discord servers are usually for invite-only, more closed-off communities, and we’re not talking about a lemmy replacement but rather how this is inadequate as a discord replacement.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                5·
                6 个月前

                That’s true, but the vast majority of the issues aren’t related to that. The majority of the issues in the article (if you read them you’d know) are about replication. They’re about whether the timing of posts, deletions, bans, and things like that possibly not being replicated perfectly across all instances. Lemmy has the same issues, but I haven’t noticed them causing problems yet. They would be even less of a problem in a private discord-like environment.

            • tlf@feddit.de
              2·
              6 个月前

              Just because I use Lemmy doesn’t mean I was able to convince anyone of my social circle to join (with lack of content as the primary reason). Building communities requires users and a lack of those is an issue with many FOSS projects.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                2·
                6 个月前

                That’s true. Unrelated to the issues in the article, but it is something that makes it hard to switch over.

      • Red@reddthat.comEnglish
        10·
        6 个月前

        Mattermost does most of the required discord features. (Pun intended)

        Is open source and is selfhost-able. I think there are some SaaS hosters if you need them too.

    • GadgeteerZA@beehaw.orgEnglish
      8·
      6 个月前

      It’s often not the cost of the software, but the hosting costs, especially on a growing platform.

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
        6·
        6 个月前

        platforms can be peer to peer too, with maybe a cheaper to host tracker. i think its viable for a chat app, like matrix, for example.

        overall yes though, i wonder when lemmy is gonna start having these issues, its still mostly run by unpaid volunteers…

        • GadgeteerZA@beehaw.orgEnglish
          6·
          6 个月前

          I think it’s why many decentralised platforms don’t want very big instances, and prefer them to split off into smaller federated sites.

      • rinze@infosec.pub
        15·
        6 个月前

        If you mean that in some channels only some people can actually “talk”, I think it depends on the configuration of the channel, but it’s a possibility.

        I thought people used Discord because you could have video / audio chats (not sure about this, I’ve used it very sparsely.)

        And then there are Open Source projects that use Discord as the documentation repository. Hell is a place on the Internet, apparently.

        • jarfil@beehaw.org
          36·
          6 个月前

          Discord became popular because it’s a more convenient integration of audio chat for gaming, with text chat: no need to set up a server (like TeamSpeak or Mumble).

          People using Discord for official documentation, or bug reporting, are in a circle of hell just slightly below the ones doing the same on Reddit. Community support… they may get a pass.

          • rinze@infosec.pub
            9·
            6 个月前

            You’re right, I completely misinterpreted the comment. The thing is that “voice” is a very specific term within IRC, and I got confused :D

            • NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de
              6·
              6 个月前

              Yup, I realized that :) I do believe discord has just about all the features IRC can offer. And then some, of course. But that isn’t saying much, considering IRC is one of the earliest uses of the internet.

        • Vodulas [they/them]@beehaw.org
          3·
          6 个月前

          Yeah, I mean audio chats (voice is short for voice chat). I think the video calls are not used as much, but are still a good feature. I’ll probably try Revolt (someone linked it below)

      • ezchili@iusearchlinux.fyi
        12·
        6 个月前

        You mean does the 80s-based protocol that doesn’t even support encryption support voice?

        It doesn’t support having messages received while you were offline

        IRC supports one and one thing only: N-wise chats to connected clients. That and delusional nerds who like to think they’re better than everyone else. Huge support for that too.

        People who actually have sane standards for their instant messaging use the Matrix decentralized chat protocol when they need non-proprietary coms, or revolt

        • Vodulas [they/them]@beehaw.org
          4·
          6 个月前

          I figured that was still the case, but would have been pleasantly surprised if it wasn’t. I don’t really keep up on IRC these days

    • jarfil@beehaw.org
      27·
      6 个月前

      Compared to Matrix, or any E2EE chat, this doesn’t sound good:

      we take your privacy very seriously. And with end-to-end encryption coming to DMs and group chats soon

      Compared to Discord, or other established voice chat systems like Mumble, this doesn’t sound great either:

      We are currently rebuilding the client and the voice server from scratch. The old voice should work in most cases, but it may inexplicably not connect in some scenarios and / or exhibit weird behaviour.

      The “app” on Android seems to be just the webapp running in a standalone window.

      I’ll concede them the OpenSource and self-hosted factors, and it does look like Discord, but it doesn’t seem like a suitable replacement for average users… yet. Then again, the ads might push them over.

      Guess it’s worth to keep an eye on it.

    • Political Custard@beehaw.org
      15·
      6 个月前

      Oh, this looks great. Honestly, I am very happy when closed-source apps become worse, these are all just opportunities for open source to move in and take over.

    • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      12·
      6 个月前

      so this Revolt project is open source, which is nice, but still seems to rely on centralized servers. Does it use P2P for voice+video+fileshare so that the original devs aren’t on the hook for insane bandwidth requirements? I can’t see anything about their networking systems in the FAQ or info pages.

      I may consider getting my friends to switch sooner or later if it’s more P2P based. But I don’t really want something that runs ALL traffic through central servers, because the bandwidth costs will inevitably just lead to the same situation that Discord is now in.

    • Segab 👻@beehaw.orgEnglish
      6·
      6 个月前

      Oh cool there’s an Android app, that’s gonna make it so much easier to recommend!

      Edit: I just read about how it’s centralized and not encrypted, I’m not sure how this can become anything but Discord except open source and less popular. Matrix + Element seems to cover my use case for a project a bit better, I’ll give that a try.

      • jarfil@beehaw.org
        5·
        6 个月前

        Just tried it… it says “Running in Chrome”. Seems to be a repackaged webapp.

        • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
          5·
          6 个月前

          well that’s no different than Discord already, so net zero change

          running webapps in chrome or Electron containers simplifies a lot of development, i don’t like their resource requirements or dependency on Chromium, but I do understand needing to streamline development so devs can work on more important backend stuff.

          • jarfil@beehaw.org
            9·
            6 个月前

            The difference is:

            • Discord: Electron app, 156 MB, works offline
            • Revolt: webapp, 635 kB, doesn’t work offline

            The “works offline” is not much of a bonus for a chat app, but you can access cached chats on Discord, while Revolt… just doesn’t run.

            There seem to be other clients for it, though. Haven’t checked those out.

            • SteveTech@programming.devEnglish
              4·
              6 个月前

              In theory PWAs can be configured to run offline, whether they’re doing that I don’t know.

              The desktop app looks like it’s electron though.

              • jarfil@beehaw.org
                5·
                6 个月前

                I know, one of the best PWAs I’ve seen is Draw.io, fully usable offline, with both device and browser storage.

                The Revolt’s one however, even though delivered as a PWA, seems to be only the login page. If already logged in, it throws a “Network error.” dialog. Haven’t checked the desktop one.

  • Megaman_EXE@beehaw.org
    12·
    6 个月前

    I’m so tired man. I just want it to stop. It feels like everything nice is slowly being squeezed in all aspects of life.

    Anything that capitalism touches or influences has begun to choke us out. It just seems to continue and doesn’t seem to ease up or improve. Maybe I’m just noticing it more, but the past 4 years felt like things accelerated quickly

    • anachronist@midwest.socialEnglish
      8·
      6 个月前

      This is the definition of late-stage capitalism. Capitalism starts out by finding useful things that improve lives for at least some people (potentially by ruining it for others). For instance, it invents assembly lines to make manufactured goods cheaper but in so doing makes the worker’s job dull, repetitive, stressful, and robs him of his agency. This is early stage capitalism. Things are getting worse for some people but broadly better for many.

      But then later on capitalism runs out of things to improve. You can only invent the assembly line once. You only get that boost when you implement it. So you have to come up with something else. Maybe you computerize things. But eventually you can’t wring any more profits out of production and profits must go up, so you have to take them out of the customers. You roll up all the competing firms into a monopoly and then start jacking up the price, slashing the quality, etc. This is late-stage. It becomes more and more parasitic and the snake eats its own tail.

    • smb@lemmy.mlEnglish
      22·
      6 个月前

      usually at first you can do such, and later on, when a ceo wants more money, you then can buy that together with the new “pro” features actually nobody needs nor wants.

      maybe better look for more stable solutions before they start acting like a broadcom ;-)

    • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      12·
      6 个月前

      Sure, but you really expect that option to stay available for very long after 90% of users turn it off and ruin it’s profitability?

    • FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi
      10·
      6 个月前

      For now. I’m quite sure that option will disappear at some point in the not too distant future.

  • Nora@lemmy.ml
    4·
    6 个月前

    We need a Federated FOSS Discord alternative built to work with the activity pub protocol. I’m currently setting up an XMPP server, but I hope something like XMPP but works with activitypub gets made some day.

      • dan@upvote.au
        2·
        6 个月前

        It’s not designed for real-time communication at all. ActivityPub is fine for things where it takes a little bit of time to sync everything, but a chat that worked that way would feel very slow. XMPP is a better fit.