• aidan@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Except there is exactly that: socialism is where the working class owns the means of production.

    No that’s Marxism. Socialism existed before Marx. Generally socialism is understood to be some form of collective ownership(in a strict form) by a community or state, but that could take the form of worker control, complete democratic control, or what it is in a lot of cases which is technocratic beuracrat control. In a less strict form it could even include voluntary cooperation.

    • Trek@union.place
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      8 months ago

      that’s just various examples of the working class owning (and managing) the means of production

      • aidan@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        So the USSR was socialist? And so is North Korea? The state controls the means of production.

        • Trek@union.place
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          8 months ago

          Did I say they were? I was referring to “collective ownership (in a strict form) by a community or state [which]…take[s] the form of worker control, complete democratic control” as an example of the working class owning the means of production, and challenging the idea that “collective ownership” and “working class ownership of the means of production” are mutually exclusive.

          • aidan@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I didn’t say “which”, I said “could”. While what I said does include what you said, it also includes “collective ownership (in a strict form) by a community or state…which is technocratic beuracrat control”