- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@beehaw.org
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Hybrid > BEV
isn’t hybrid a big broad? mild-hybrid, hybrid and plug-in hybrid?
Not really, in the US excluding a few trucks we basically only have full hybrids and other than Honda they’re basically all using the same Toyota/Paice technology.
There has been sooooooo much misreporting and misdiscussion because of people accounting the types and categories differently. For example, does “electric vehicles” and “electrification” include or exclude electric hybridization? Includes, of course. I see, now, why people started using the HEV / PHEV / BEV nomenclature.
Well yeah but the point of the article title was to make it look like EVs are booming even though it’s barely putting a dent even with the government putting unreasonably strict emissions on manufacturers and throwing money at buyers in the form of rebates.
If EV sales were booming, Subaru wouldn’t offer 0.0% financing on their EV only. One dealer had -$13000 off the Soltera. Not to mention tax credits to push them off the lot.
EVs hanging on the coat tails of Hybrids for this stat.
why?
Test drove a CR-V hybrid today and what a great driving car. I can see why it’s popular. Hybrid is great for most people until charging infrastructure gets better
The presumption that BEV is better was the fallacy that was tripping people up. It was like one of those speed seduction fast-talking slight-of-hand kindof things.
We all should have gotten psyched up about the ingeniousness of the newest Hybrids/HEV tech instead of being derailed by the BEV dead end and the con men it rode in on.
We don’t need more chargers all over. More people should adopt Hybrids/HEVs when the time comes for them to replace their car, and they shouldn’t be negative about internal combustion generally. It’s possible that a liquid gasoline replacement comes out in the next hundred years thats got more performance and is better for the environment that’d work excellently with internal combustion engines, so people shouldn’t be so dang hostile to it. The BEV (and to a lesser degree, PHEV too) distraction was a distraction from the bigger picture, and it became a bit of a fixation for some people. Economy-wise, HEVs justify themselves through their lifetime of cost savings. BEVs don’t, so some greedy men lobbied governments for taxpayer moneys and have been mooching since. Environment-wise, China’s and India’s and the U.S.'s coal plants and garbage incineration pollute tremendously more than the global transportation segment does. Transportation-caused pollution is relatively small potatoes. The huge quantity of toxic waste from dead BEV batteries is going to be a lasting reminder of humanity’s foolishness.
This is misinformation. Why combine all types of hybrids with EVs. It’s a fact that EVs are piling up on dealer lots. They can’t move them.
Hybrids on the other hand are still trading like hotcakes. Go try to buy a RAV4 Hybrid right now. Spoiler: you can’t.
It turns out that Toyota was right all along and hybrids are the correct answer at the present time. Most people don’t need more than 50-100 miles of range on their electric motor. You get that with a hybrid and then have the gas option for long road trips. It’s truly the perfect solution. And it’s also the most environmentally friendly option as Toyota has said they can produce 8 hybrid units for the same amount of battery materials as 1 BRZ4XG&.
Toyota was right.
EVs piling up on dealer lots is technically correct but conveniently misleading. Tesla, who still sells roughly 50% of EVs in the US, and who have the most compelling value in the EV space due to their pricing, range, and charging infrastructure, doesn’t have dealerships. There is still plenty of EV demand, just not for shitty EVs and especially shitty EVs that dealerships put markups on.
I won’t argue the merit of hybrids with you (they are great), but the “EVs piling up on dealer lots = no demand” trope is logically incorrect.
As consumers become more informed and the true lifetime costs of BEVs becomes more known, more and more people will choose to go with HEVs for their preference and vehicles of choice.
BEV mania was a wrong turn for humanity. People didn’t do due diligence.
Internal Combustion lifted mankind from poverty and isolation. It doesn’t deserve to be shamed by any combination of plug fetishists or rare earth mineral gluttons or 3rd world plunderers or toxic battery waste producing miscreants or greedy charlatans.
With Hybrid tech, IC has gotten way way better. Now about those coal plants…
It’s a fact that EVs are piling up on dealer lots.
the ones from lazy OEM’s that are $80k+ for only 200 miles of range, definitely.
Did you bother to open the link? There’s nothing misleading, they give data for hybrids and EVs and they’re almost exactly the same percentage.
Toyota was right all along about HEV. HEV is actually better than PHEV. HEV is significantly lighter, cheaper, and more efficient than PHEV. Toyota _made_ a PHEV, but the HEV version is better. Estimations of PHEV tend not to account for enough factors. The Pruis (HEV) - Prius Prime (PHEV) comparison is an ideal example.
In an metaphor: Requiring yourself to sustain a ritual of plugging in your car to make up for having to lug around a big fat 364 lb ghost sitting in the back seat of your car for the lifetime of the vehicle, even when you’re running on gas and even when you’re running on electric.
Kindof a funny metaphor, right?
it goes to show how much electric vehicle sales have increased since around 2020 pandemic
Should be no surprise to anyone who has looked at EV prices lately. I can walk into a EV Jag for the price of a RAV4. And given the lack of issues EV’s tend to have, I can see why people might spring for that.
Toyota is enjoying a really nice profit right now, with money that the BEV charlatan had hoped to win through deception and disinformation bombardment. Tesla got a lot of people riled up and excited about vehicles, and when people did their shopping research, flocks and droves of them found themselves deciding that it was wiser and better to go with a Toyota, and they were right.
You might be tempted to believe that BEVs would be less prone to problems as they have fewer parts, but in reality many BEV owners have an inordinate multitude of problems with their vehicles, including premature catastrophic major component failures. Another grief that they’ve had is the huge expense of repairs in the case of minor accidents and rapid depreciation of resale value.
Yup a Jaguar EV, I’m sure there will be no issues…
British auto companies have a long history of supremely reliable engineering, especially in electrical systems. I’m certain that a Jaguar EV will be the pinnacle of reliability and longevity. It might even rival the quality of the old British Leyland cars.
Is Lucas going to supply the electronics? God help us all!
Is this sarcasm? What British auto company?
But have you considered that it’s a Jaaaaaaag
Lmfaooo fr
that’s a used EV jag for 44k… very misleading lol
Please don’t post articles that threaten this subs out of touch takes
If it weren’t for fuel economy regulations by the nagging government most families would buy Corvettes instead of Grand Highlander hybrids smh.
How much are EVs vs Hybrids tho
If you bothered to click the link you’d see that they’re almost exactly even.
toyOTa WaS riGht, HYDroGeN iS ThE fuTuRe
But I thought demand for EVs was cratering?! 🙄
HEVs are booming, BEVs are slumping
Sure, that’s why BEV sales are up something like 50% year over year
Easier to do when the starting number is lower. 50% of 1m is easier than 50% of 100m (dramatic example only, not real numbers). I think the best number to use is the overall take rate of a BEV of the total sales. Example, fortune magazine posted an article 6 days ago about BEVs having a 9% take rate so far in 2023 in the US, and quick search shows about 7.3% take rate for 2022. Still a decent increase.
That said, BEVs in some sectors are selling like hot cakes, others seem to a bit slower to sell, coming from the manufacturers.
The truth is getting around faster than suckers are being born.
That’s the real reason for the BEV slump and HEVs taking off.
That’s what Toyota and Big Oil want you to believe.
This sub loves hybrids…
I love pure engines.
Only as a cudgel against EVs. As a long time Prius fan and fan of hybrids in general, I remember how vehemently they hated it until they needed something to counter the EV wave.
Hybrids have come a long way including the Prius itself tbf
If anyone drove a modern EV versus a modern hybrid, they’d never suggest a hybrid with a straight face. Hybrids are an absolute snooze to drive, loud comparatively, and about as refined as a mid century tractor
Have you ever driven a Lexus hybrid?
this is the most exaggerated take on hybrids I’ve ever seen lol not biased at all given your flair.
Or it’s just an accurate take of someone who also owns a hybrid?
their flair checks out though, Tesla fanboys are one of the most pretentious out there lol
Evs also got this sub to love public transit too as a cudgel against EVs lmao. I guess it’s proof a rising tide lifts all ships.
But the hybrid rhetoric here is hilarious.
Before ev: “too complicated, too expensive, going to break”
After ev push: “hybrids are the actual best option for everyone, complexity is good actually”
This sub should love public transport though. Less cars on the road means driving is more enjoyable, less accidents, safer roads, etc.
Haha, you are so right. The amount of support for hybrids and public transit on this sub has never been so high. It’s hilarious.
I’m very happy with my Lexus
Found the EV throater
Don’t lump EVs and hybrids together. Hybrids have been popular for a long time, don’t change the ownership experience from any other ICE vehicle, and are an organic way to transition from fossil to electric power.
EVs, despite all the subsidies and being pushed hard worldwide with threatened ICE bans and other punitive government regulations against ICE, are still unpopular. Toyota was right to put out that EV ecosystem is immature and that hybrids are the answer and would NOT go all in on EVs, and that connect with reality is why they are the number one largest automotive manufacturer and are likely to remain so, while others like Ford are having big time regret as they lose a huge amount of money on every EV they sell.
are still unpopular
According to the article their market share percentage are already about the same as hybrids, a much more mature and well adopted technology.
Like… why don’t you at least open the article and read first before sharing opinions?
He’s spewing Toyota bullshit. No way Toyota would shit their own brand. They’ve under invested in EV so their only card is to over invest in hybrids to delay the inevitable EV transition. They don’t have enough battery factories and they have too many supplier and not enough vertical integration. China is supposed to be a big market for them, but BYD and Tesla are just killing it there. VW is in a similar boat, any market where BYD/Tesla can enter, the legacy automakers are losing market share fast.
By lumping in EVs with non-EVs, the first glance impression is that they are more popular than they are, as people will remember the 18% figure instead of 7%. And even 7% sounds better than saying that 93% of vehicles sold are not EVs.
And imagine what the EV sales figures would be without the $7.5K discount, or conversely, imagine how much higher non-EV sales would be if they also enjoyed a $7.5K discount.
Imagine if gas RAV4s were sold instead of $30K for only $22.5K.… a little common sense goes a long way to see how even with Ford losing $33.5K on every EV they sell and the government forcing Americans to pay for EVs with their tax dollars whether they buy one or not, that they are remarkably unpopular.
even 7% sounds better
First of all it’s 7.9%, and hard numbers are hard numbers, how it sounds “good” or “bad” is entirely subjective. I personally think 1 out of every 12 cars being EV is great.
and imagine
What’s the point in imagine an alternative reality?
Imagine how many EVs would be sold if gas price goes up 50% without all the oil company subsidies? Imagine how many EVs would be sold if we tax engines by displacement like all civilized countries do?
But that’s not the case, so you can’t choose and pick what alternative reality you wanna live in.
Imagine how many EVs would be sold if gas price goes up 50% without all the oil company subsidies?
Why would gas prices go up 50% overnight without government interference to cause that? The fossil fuel industry is also heavily net taxed, not net subsidized, so you seem very confused. For example, if a banker makes $10 million and gets various subsidies (such as buying some EVs and taking advantage of other government programs) that amount to $90K tax discount but still pays $2.8 million in taxes, that is not a net subsidy. By contrast, lets say there is a fast food employee that makes $20K, but receives various subsidies that add up to $9K, this person receives more from the government than is paid and is a net subsidy. The fact that the banker received ten times the “subsidy” doesn’t mean he was net subsidized, and in fact if the government didn’t interfere he would be millions richer, whereas the fast food employee would be $9K poorer.
Sorry to ELI5 this, but I hear this a lot about fossil fuel subsidies which is laughable, and defies common sense since regions with a lot of fossil fuels often get most of their income from the heavy net taxation of those industries (like Alaska for example).
the fact that ICE is still so much more popular,
No kidding. For years Nokia was more popular than iPhones too… And everyone was buying Kodak film camera as well…
shows that EV sales are ENTIRELY a product of government interference in the free market.
So you are saying without $7500, EV sale would be zero? Ok.
I mean what do I even say to people like you? LMAO.
For years Nokia was more popular than iPhones too
Great example, and yet somehow the masses transitioned to iPhones from Nokia when they found that the product was superior, without any government mandates or subsidies on iPhones required!
Imagine! Consumer choice can create market changes!
So you are saying without $7500, EV sale would be zero? Ok.
Without massive government interference, EV sales would be zero. I think we can all agree, Tesla wouldn’t even exist, right? Musk says that, so why shouldn’t we trust him? And if major manufacturers like Ford tell us that they are losing $33.5K on every EV they sell, and they have all the numbers to back that up in their earnings reports that are scrutinized by law, why should we believe they are lying?
Lets say, just for the sake of argument, that vehicle manufacturers actually make cars because they want profit (crazy, but hear me out). So if Ford increased their EV prices by say $40K to get the same profits they enjoy on ICE vehicles and then consumers had to add another $7.5K to the price, do you still think they would spend nearly $48K more for the electric version of a vehicle?
My guess is nuh-uh, and if nobody is buying them then no one would be making them, and sales would be zero.
But texasgascompanydotcom told me that EV sales were dead and that a battery charge was equivalent to $17 per gallon.
buying an EV is stupid if you don’t have home charging and will be that way for the foreseeable future. hybrid makes sense for a lot of people right now.
Still I’m not convinced buying a new EV is saving shit, it’s just shifting the source of emissions. nor do I think it’s that much more economical compared to ice in the long run. I think it’s a wash so I’m sticking with ice
I love how many arguments against EVs start with “I think.” Don’t let facts get in your way, my guy.