Hi all,
I thought maybe this would be the place to go to see what can be done about my mom’s situation. For context, last year, in Nov 2022, my mom bought a used, 2018 Smart ForTwo EQ for around 20k. Just a week or two ago, she calls me to tell me her car won’t start, so I ask her to show me what it says, she video calls, and I see something similar to a High Voltage battery error. So we get it towed to her house, and she makes an appt with the Mercedes dealership she bought it from. FF to today, they tell her that it’ll be 23k to replace the battery. Anyone here who might be able to help me figure out what her next steps are? She doesn’t have anywhere near that kind of money on hand, and neither do I.
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I really wanted to get a smart eq as a second fun car, but these stories are making me too nervous to own one. I used to have an ice smart, and getting that repaired was a nightmare.
What’s the best option for a used small car EV? A golf or mini?
Bolt.
C40.
Fiat 500e
Threads like these make me extremely nervous about driving an EV. I see such threads and news articles pop up every once in a while and everytime I get a twitch.
It is the same as an engine blowing up in an ICE vehicle. It happens, it is expensive, and usually the dealership will just give you a ridiculous quote. But here and there, you have both warranties and alternatives.
Honestly it’s not so bad, I recently had a recall on my I-Pace and the dealer was nothing short of exceptional.
Outside of that, EVs as I’m sure you know are great, I relish the fact I don’t need to spend loads of money on gas all the time! And the driving dynamics are awesome!
What country is this in? In the US, all EV’s have an 8 year/ 120k mile warranty or more on the motor(s) and battery.
Mercedes claims otherwise.. 8 years/62,000 miles.
California says no (allegedly).
Hybrid and EV battery warranties last at least eight years or 100,000 miles, which is longer than most manufacturer powertrain warranties.
Even better, state of California (where OP lives) says 10 years / 150k miles.
Wow that’s a good way to force manufacturers to build their cars to last longer and extend planned obsolescence.
You have an actual source? Some law, some FTC statement, or something in the federal register?
I just did a search, and found nothing, and honestly, the top result was me doing the search and finding that federal law does NOT require it, and California doesn’t require it either (and california hasn’t changed their statements on either).
From my most recent search, I actually see many sites that claim it’s federal law now, but absolutely none cite any source. I’m sure it wasn’t the case for the 2018 MY (as has been pointed out), did the IRA change it and it’s not a new 2023 warranty? That would make sense, but I can’t find the text.
US, California. I had a feeling the car had an 8 year warranty, I have the same on my EV and thought it was ridiculous that they are charging her for something under warranty.
In my experience many dealers and manufacturers tend to be really crappy when it comes to honoring their EV warranties.
I would still double check the 12v battery first, as it’s possible that this is just a super simple easy fix.
Mercedes dealership probably won’t help but hopefully Kia will.
Look to see if there’s a local Electrified Garage or other independent EV repair shop.
Instead of replacing the entire battery, they can usually identify the bad module and replace just that at a fraction of the cost. (and also a much less labor rate)
Sadly these repair shops are still scarce. But worth looking into.
Other options are refurb pack and junkyard pack.
Looks like that one isn’t really serviceable, so you can do the junkyard route. I can get a EV fortwo on copart with some crash damage for a buy it now of $2500…that may be a reasonable way to get a replacement battery.
This is just a guess, but did you check the 12V battery? My 500e had a 12V battery go out in the middle of the night and did something similar. Then, my 2017 Bolt did the same thing while I was at work. Both cars would give me a ton of errors and not turn on. 2018-2023 is about 5 years, close to the age of both my 12V batteries when they died on me. I am now going to be replacing the batteries every 3 years to prevent me from getting stranded somewhere like the time with my Bolt. Neither car warned me the 12V batteries were going bad, it just happened.
The day we get this manufactures to stick in a 20,000 cycle lithium iron battery is the day we get to say good bye to this utter annoyance in electrical systems where lead acid is such a poor choice as they don’t need high current draw.
IIRC the majority of EVs sold today come with a lithium 12V battery.
Ya the 12v is common problem. Happened to my model 3
Happened to our Honda e. They’re cheap to replace and worth a go.
This recently happened to my 2015 e-golf. No warning. I spent some time on subs for battery sizing and watched battery replacement videos. Flawless victory! I feel very lucky that it 1. I had just returned home from work when the alerts lit up, 2. my OBD dongle was still good (did I really need it?), 3. I had the tools and there are no ICE parts to work around, and 4. I’m competent enough to do this.
A bad 12V battery on an EV shouldn’t kill the car if it’s already running. It’s just like an ICE where it’s needed to start the car and then the alternator/traction battery is supposed to charge the battery and maintain a voltage for the 12V system. In an ICE, it turns the starter. In an EV, it engages the contactors for the traction battery.
I did have a car die once while driving. If I turned on the headlights it would die. That’s because the alternator was bad and not charging the battery.
true. it didn’t die, per se, but i def didn’t want to drive/tow it until i made an attempt to fix it.
Yeah there was a recall on the BMS for an issue where it would drain the pack. You should see if that recall work was performed.
I believe that work was done a month or two after she initially got the car.
OP, if you somewhere in Cali(I’m in LA county), I can take a look on a battery pack. Fixed few fortwos. As well we can make it bigger.
I’m not falling for that ad…again.
hold up, you can make them BIGGER? is it the size of a mini Cooper now?
Worse, a Countryman. Excuse me, I need to throw up.
Yeah I can make it a Forsix / Forsixandahalf if you’re very close with the other passengers.
A lot of folks are claiming the battery should be warrantied. Here is the US warranty. I do believe the federally mandated warranty was enacted within the last year. California state law as of April 2018 requires a 150k warranty. The question is, when was the vehicle originally delivered?
There is no federally mandated EV battery warranty at this time. This has been beaten to death in this sub. The California warranty you are referring to is for PZEV vehicles: partial zero emission vehicles with engines.
The beaten do death warranty wasn’t in place when the vehicle sold as new. I mentioned that a few times myself. I misspoke about the California warranty; odd that it excludes EVs though. Anyway, the buyer seems to be in the hook for repairs in this case.
California 10 year/150K mile warranty is hybrid only (for whatever reason) and not for EVs.
Doesn’t matter the vehicle is within Mercedes base warranty on time and mileage.
Sale of the vehicle was originally in California back in October of 2018 from what I can remember. Mom bought it back in November '22
Double check the warranty. If that doesn’t work, look for a used battery. Do not under any circumstances follow any online battery ‘repair’ advice. She would then own a serious fire hazard.
I’ll double check the warranty, I’m sure it’s 8 years and they’re trying to pull one over on her, or they’re woefully uneducated on their own vehicle warranties.
I would guess this is a case where Hanlon’s razor applies and it’s the latter.
Ask a different dealer, too.
Some like warranty work, others don’t.
Federal minimum is 8 years/100k. Some states adopted the California warranty of 10 years/150k. The length of the legally required warranty depends in which state the car was originally sold. Mercedes have been less than clear about their legal obligations to customers.
Tesla actually made those batteries as part of a deal with Mercedes for their help in the beginning when Tesla was starting up. Electrified garage has helped people with those before and for a lot less money than 23k!
Even if the EV battery is dead, your mom can go to a company who will refresh the battery for way less than replacement.
If it isn’t warranty just call a hybrid doctor (that’s what my local company is called)
They replace the cells in the battery instead of having to buy a whole new one if it’s the EV battery causing a fault.
Significantly cheaper. I work at a dealer on the parts side and yeah just those batteries alone is like 18K
The owners manual will tell you warranty coverage. If you don’t have it’s probably the manufacturer website. Most brands have it available for download there