- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
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Ocean freight can also use sodium batteries. That would be huge for climate.
Would be nice if we could get some cheap sodium batteries for home solar installations. I have panels but still no affordable batteries.
I just want them as cheap solar battery…
Sodium ion’s biggest issue is it’s energy density by volume. It takes up about twice the space compared to to li-ion cells. I’m pretty sure that’s why they usually only mention the energy density by weight. By weight sodium’s density isn’t great but it’s not terribly behind LFP cells. (120-160 wh/kg mentioned by CATL and other companies) Later in the decade, CATL has announced improving their energy density to 200 wh/kg. (Not sure about volumetric improvements.)
Hopefully this doesn’t sound negative. Sodium ion has huge potential. Other areas where sodium ion could be a good fit are: lawn mower batteries, home equipment like snow blowers, golf carts or 12 volt batteries for cars. I can see all 12 volt batteries for all EVs going to sodium ion due to extended life and weight savings over lead acid. (Huge disruption risk for lead acid batteries.) it might even work for 12 volt ICE vehicle batteries as well. (Not sure if sodium ion power capabilities compared to lead acid.)
What are the benefits of Sodium Ion batteries then?
Much cheaper, more abundant base resources, potentially 3x more charge cycles for similar degradation, much safer, higher temperature efficiency range, faster charging.
I’m wondering what the cranking amps are for the sodium battery? IIRC most of the lithium 12v batteries are not able to provide the amps needed to crank the engine
Any news on how it handles the cold?
Any guesses here on what the anode material is going to be? I read the entire article and all it says is no cobalt. So far so good but I’d like to know more… carbon nanotubes perhaps?
No idea about BYD, but CATLs anode is as follows…
https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html
“In terms of anode materials, CATL has developed a hard carbon material that features a unique porous structure, which enables the abundant storage and fast movement of sodium ions, and also an outstanding cycle performance.”
Sodium ion is the most exciting battery chemistry for the future. It’s great for stationary storage and effectively kills the need for gas peaker plants.
There are so many stories you can tell about this.
A story about technology (is it Layered-Oxide SIB or Polyanion SIB, what Anode materials will they use, what energy density will they reach, etc.?).
Or a story about Xuzhou.
Or a story about BYD coming into its role as a true national champion, powering an entire industry and raising up with itself other companies (startups, mature conglomerates, even state-owned companies).
I’m thinking of this recent news for example: https://autonews.gasgoo.com/new_energy/70028867.html
Can brine from desalination be processed and used in sodium ion batteries?
Sodium-ion is not as good as lithium-ion for almost every application, but there are particular niches for which it will be amazing. Grid storage is one, but also short-range e-mobility like cheap cars with sub-400km of range, and things like that.
The real advantages of Na-ion batteries is they are cheap and safe. Mass production of them will basically allow China to “electrify all the things.”
Sodium-ion will only be use in hybrid packs for cars i.e. 30%-nickel & 70%-sodium. BYD has mentioned this.
The comments on this post have a very American bias. Most folks don’t drive anywhere near as much as you guys and their cars aren’t as huge as yours. Sodium ion batteries have plenty of potential for automotive applications.
Things are getting very interesting with Sodium-ion tech. CATL and BYD are the players you really want behind a battery technology in China in order for it to succeed.
It will be nice for almost every country to gain supply chain independence with this tech, to be honest.
Imagine if Japan had invested in this rather than hydrogen…
I still think they will be used in stationary storage more than EVs but they are very good as stationary storage applications
Why not paired with lithium ion in cars? They have extreme power density so they can provide the large power needs for acceleration and deceleration and switch over to lithium ion for the energy density for cruising speed.
Generally SIBs actually don’t win on discharge, it’s only in cold weather where that becomes a win for them. However, there are still plenty of benefits in pairing LIBs/SIBs together — see CATL’s so-called ‘AB’ packs.
I don’t know. Ford made a bad ass sodium car in the 90s
Agreed. This will completely take over stationary storage quite quickly. That frees up lithium for automotive use.
I think the first generation Sodium-Ion batteries will be better suited to stationary storage - but from memory CATL predicts second generation cells to reach a similar density to their current LFP packs - surely this will make them more suited to cars? Either way it’s good to see a new cell chemistry coming to the market, even if it isn’t used much in cars, it’ll free up lithium supply.
I feel like LFP batteries are/will continue to improve as well. So we might see sodium at the low end of the market like the mini-evs and micro-cars but I think LFP will be the main material used in the mass market EVs we will see in the west.
Agreed, I actually think LFP might become the dominant chemistry in most EVs, not just mid market cars. The energy density and charging speed improvements for LFP batteries coming to market in the next 2-3 years look very promising, especially combined with the perceived increased safety and life span of LFP. I’ll be interesting to see if ‘AB’ mixed chemistry packs become common, i.e a mix of Sodium-Ion and Ternary or LFP cells in the one pack 🤔
The article mentions that BYD’s partner for this plant is Huaihai Group, a manufacturer of motorcycles, kick scooters, and tuktuks. So this will be used almost exclusively for those verticals.
Especially with the modular systems for home & commercial use that are already on the market.