Hi everyone,
As the owner of an ID.4, I’ve been watching the news closely for any information on whether or not Volkswagen will switch from CCS to NACS.
It seems improbable that they wouldn’t, especially since Electrify America is installing NACS on it’s chargers, but what do you think is likely to happen?
Thanks!
You must log in or register to comment.
It’s at least partly because the US is the only market where this is even a question, and it’s a smaller EV market than either China or the EU.
US, Canada, Mexico, and probably most of central America…
Ah, yes, fair enough. Even the US is probably big enough to justify it, frankly. I just mean to point out that it isn’t actually weird that companies go CCS by default.
it isn’t actually weird that companies go CCS by default.
VWs in China use GB/T and CCSv2 in Europe isn’t the same as CCSv1 in North America. The Charge port has always needed to be manufactured specifically for each region.
It made sense to default to CCSv1 in N.A. when most of the industry was doing the same. It doesn’t anymore.
Why is everyone so hung up on a handle? The issue with anyone dealing with Tesla isn’t about the handle. It’s about the access.
A required NACS communication protocol is CCS. That means that any vehicle that speaks CCS, such as VW and Stellantis, can use a NACS handle with an adapter. So, that’s the issue.
The issue is whether or not Tesla will give authorization to use SuperChargers that communicate using NACS to vehicles that don’t have a deal. There’s already a dribble of that with Magic Docks where access is given through the Tesla app. The unknown question is what happens when v3 stations that speak NACS are released to other manufacturers like Chevy or Ford. Will that access be exclusively through the GM or Ford app? Or can the Tesla app be used to access those stations with an adapter? If it’s the latter, then a VW or a Dodge can access SuperChargers through an adapter just as easily a a Chevy Bolt will be able to.
There’s a perfect example of this right now in the Atlanta area. A brand spanking new v4 Supercharger has opened in East Point GA last week. 16 stations with Magic Docks. However, the station doesn’t yet show on the “Charge my non-Tesla” portion of the Tesla app. It has the adapter. It has the protocol. The app is set up to authorize a non-Tesla. But the station isn’t there yet. And no one seems to know when that authorization may come.
NACS is an open standard according to Tesla. No one needs Tesla permission to install A NACS connector on their car. Again, it’s only about access to the SuperCharging network. And since NACS speaks CCS, once that access is granted, then it doesn’t matter which handle or connector is on the car.
ga2500ev
It’s not that handle at all. It’s the network attached to the handle.
Tesla has done a much better job at building their network. People want to use their chargers instead of other chargers. So, Tesla used that most-desired position to make their handle the standard. Everyone else has to spend money to switch over while they don’t.
Why is everyone so hung up on a handle?
Because it’s a nice handle that doesn’t suck? Adding an adapter to an already terrible handle just makes it terribler[sic].
That would be the other way around. It’s Teslas that would have to add the chunky CCS adapter to the CCS handle.
I finally figured out that many people are fascinated with aesthetics. Personally I could care less how something looks. I’m only concerned with functionality. The functionality I’d like to see is to pull my Bolt or my ID4 into a SuperCharger and get some electrons. Be that with a NACS handle, or a Magic Dock, or an external adapter really doesn’t matter much. But getting the access to those electrons are extremely important.
Like for example, why do we need to wait until 2024 to get access? Why can’t Ford and GM send out adapters now and Tesla grant access now? Why are the Magic Docks in v4 stations in operation that cannot be used now?
What’s the hold up?
ga2500ev
None of the chargers support it. It will take them until next year to get enough upgraded to support the CCS protocol. I have two CCS1 cars and the charging plug is by far the worst part of the charging experience. I’m a strong guy and I can’t one-hand the plug into place and the latch is broken frequently at chargers.
I suspect VW absolutely will, but they probably don’t want to Osborne effect themselves by announcing it 2 years before it happens.
Except Ford/GM/Rivian/etc have already done that - adapters in 2024, full changeover in 2025. I think it will be more of sales driver than a detriment for them.
At this point, VW is probably hurting themselves more by being the laggards.
Sorry is this related question is dumb… will the future NACS stations have a CCS adapter like I’ve seen on some Tesla stations, or will I need to carry my own CCS adapter for a few years until I get my next EV?
It is likely that an adapter will be needed at many locations. Tesla can quickly retrofit magicdock but is mostly doing that to increase revenue at rural Superchargers with low utilization.
The manufacturers that have said they are switching to NACS and getting Supercharger access have said they will make adapters available to their existing customers.
Seems like Tesla is going to be adding more built-in adapters going forward, but they probably aren’t going to go back and add them to the 15,000 existing chargers, or if they do it will take a few years.
Yes, certainly once it’s standardized as SAE J3400. Maybe sooner, maybe not.
At the moment it’s all vapor announcements; no car maker that has announced it’s switching to NACS has shown a car with a NACS connector on it, even a mock-up; no OEM has committed to anything beyond “2024” for when you’ll see an adapter; no non-Tesla has been demonstrated charging on a U.S. Supercharger without a Magic Dock. We’re even still waiting on a single NACS connector on anything that isn’t a Supercharger at a public charging site—and, no, the janky captive CHAdeMO to Tesla 50 kW adapters on some EVgo stations don’t count. Will that change? Probably. Until then there’s no hurry.
Ideally the remaining OEMs waiting Tesla out will force their hand and make them do the sensible thing: retrofitting Magic Dock everywhere rather than making non-Tesla drivers live the dongle life for the next decade. Magic Dock gets rid of the safety and theft concerns associated with adapters without harming the charging experience for anyone using NACS natively.
Or perhaps VW has something else up its sleeve; if they could get Tesla to take a stake in EA and use their V4 hardware (something admittedly I didn’t think was likely to happen, but now they’ve done deals in North America and Europe to share V4, perhaps it’s possible), they’d have a virtually insurmountable combined network against the upstart OEM alliance. That’d certainly be worth dragging out the negotiations to both sides.
It will take time, years, to update all existing US Superchargers with magic docks.
That may yet be part of the plan, but vehicle adapters will let CCS vehicle drivers start using all of the existing V3 chargers in 2024 instead of waiting until 2026 or beyond.
Ford has said their customers will be able to use 15,000 Superchargers (basically all the V3 chargers) starting in “early 2024”
No, they are moving to Chadmo
Stellantis doesn’t currently sell any fast charging EVs in North America.
They would be dumb not to introduce new EVs(and the Ramcharger) as NACS at production start.
CCS confirmed to be on launch RamChargers… for some reason. I think it’s confirmed for the 1500 REV but I’m not sure. Yes it’s dumb. No, I don’t understand it either
Well, I would not expect a NACS Version soon. Nobody outside the US uses it in the moment. Not even Tesla. Maybe in a few years the market is big to develop a custom version for your niche market.
I’m predicting VW will finalize everything by the end of the year and announce they are adopting NACS.
My personal guess is they are waiting for SAE J3400 standardisation to officially complete and then announce. While this whole time having been doing preparations silently.
Everyone’s plans are about 2025 mostly anyway, so until other makers actual actions start they aren’t late as long as when they finally announce they are in position to tell “Yeah, we are on same time table”.
IMO NA will go NACS, EU will stay CCS for all brands.
they have to.
J3400 yes.
They have no choice
If they don’t, they take a Betamax/HDDVD ride.
Really there is no option, the entire rest of the automotive industry has agreed to go NACS. The Leaf has seen what happens when you’re on the wrong side of a charging standard.