the last panel would also have worked great with the “dirty commie”-part :D
Talking to an older, conservative acquaintance and he says to me “I’m glad you’re not a liberal like everyone else your age”
Me, stifling a smirk, “I am certainly not a liberal”
Certainly not a liberal…
Liberal is shorthand for economically liberal aka free market capitalists, any other definition is wrong, fuck liberals
Words can have more than one meaning. Liberalism means one thing politically and another philosophically. Arguing it means only one thing is misleading and wrong.
But yes American liberals are not helpful at best
The classical definition is actually free markets with protection from harm, which is very different
They still believe in the concept of a free market and capitalism being good. What we’ve seen with attempts to regulate is either the companies ignore it because the fines are less than what it’d cost to follow the law, skirt around it in some way, or just buy up people to then strike it.
Then you’re not regulating it properly are you?.. there are tons of regulations in play that do work.
No matter what, if you can buy and sell ownership as a shareholder, then you have a fundamental misalignment from the direct stakeholders of a firm. This is why I find unions and regulations to be band-aids.
A capitalist system is fundamentally misaligned and it will always work to undo those regulations with capital accumulation and regulatory capture. The only way to fix that is to require direct stakeholder ownership whether that be worker-consumer coöps, syndicates, public ownership, or what have you. The ownership and decision-making must needs be aligned with the people benefitting or who are otherwise impacted by the operations of a firm. That is Socialism and that is not the regulation bandaids that Liberalism trys to paste over Capitalism’s flaws and cracks.
Companies still dump untreated waste water right into water ways even with regulation. I just see it an endless chase of the capitalists one step ahead at all times at least, often more because it takes time to draft regulation. Capitalism has only brought “prosperity” to a few from the continued exploitation of others. It still believes growth infinite in a closed system.
I think punishments of anything to that degree of bad should be immediate bankruptcy with a ban on holding any C suite position for the rest of your life or face that ban in prison. We’re not harsh enough on them, and so they feel like its not a problem even if they get caught.
It will always be a fight of capital in politics that the c-suite would push to prevent this.
You’ve seen attempts to regulate that are generally company-sponsored and ineffective in preventing the harms the regulations are intended to prevent. Or you’ve seen out and out corruption which buys democracy and breaks it. Liberalism, as I understand it (as a European) allows state ownership and a free market, in different goods and dependent upon conditions in that market, to prioritise people over capital
Yeah, Liberalism doesn’t align companies with their direct stakeholders at all and so any attempt to regulate will be under tension like trying to push two magnets together.
The definition I’d go with is: “Anyone who is in favor of both free market capitalism and individual rights.”
Which, yeah, would be kind of neat if you could have both. But the former tends to erode the latter quite badly over time.
That’s called a classical liberal fyi
If the market involve buying and selling shares, then that is still capitalism, just with social safety nets.
Great! Welcome to now
Usually its the people who actually ARE liberals calling you a liberal.
No true Scotsman, eh?
Failing to see how that applies here
In the USA liberal is the term used to describe progressives. I believe that’s what they mean.
Any Joe Schmoe on the street in the USA will use it that way. They do not know the dictionary/philosophical definition of the term, that people on Lemmy beat on relentlessly.
In the USA liberal is the term used to describe progressives.
No we don’t. We use that to describe democrats who pretend to lean left while being conservative in all but name. Actual progressives get called other things like anarchists, dirty commies, or unamerican.
Don’t forget the most damning and horrific title of “socialist”
Eh. If you’re in the know, then yes, you’re correct, but your average American probably doesn’t even understand that there’s any distinction at all, and so for those people “liberal” is the catch-all term for progressives.
If someone who actually understands politics calls me a liberal, I’m gonna protest. If my dumbfuck uncle calls me a liberal, I’ll let it lie, because that’s as close as he’s reasonably going to get to understanding my political views.
progressives understand the difference, not our fault the rest of the nation is uneducated,fuck it’s their fault schools are underfunded and refuse to learn
Basically in the Midwest anyone who is not conservative/GOP is called liberal. From center to Marx himself, all libs. It is confusing being on Lemmy where classic liberalism is used.
Neo-liberalism as well. The foundation of discussion of politics is so uprooted it takes an entire other discussion to explain and use proper terminology.
Yeah, cause that’s how those on the right view anyone left of them. The Overton Window has shifted way too far right that both capitalist neoliberals and socialists get called liberal socialists by the right despite that literally being an oxymoron.
K
bullshit. I hang out in progressives circles, every single American progressive world be insulted if I they are called liberal.
K
Liberals are conservatives, they want the status quo. Progressives seek to fix broken liberal policies and structures.
There is this thing where conservatives call Democratic people liberals as a pejorative. This is nonsense though as most conservatives very much support liberal structures like the system of law.
I swear. You get on the Internet and people just want to be angry and espouse their views without understanding what they’ve read in the first place.
I explained what I believe the reasoning behind the parent comment is. Nothing more. I’m not stating my personal belief or understanding of the word.
I KNOW what a liberal is by definition. It’s NOT USED THAT WAY in the USA common discourse.
People talking about their progressive circles and how the word “liberal” gets used are missing my point too. I’m not talking about correct usage, I’m taking about common usage. The news, day to day conversation with people outside your bubble.
What you refer to as the common usage in the US is not common amongst anyone but ignorant conservatives. I clarified that for you.
Amongst many Democratic people the word is generally viewed as positive.
The people this meme is talking about typically would not consider themselves progressive either. That it is a flavor of liberal
Take it easy on him – he can’t imagine anyone being further left than a ‘progressive’.
Just because someone is using a term with its own meanings and definition horribly incorrectly doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to perpetrate it.
My god, I’m merely explaining the original comment someone else made.
I know the pedantry is expected, but maybe we can take a step back and read intent before smashing faces into our respective keyboards?
No, liberals actively fight against progressives in the US.
The term progressive was invented to literally differentiate from liberals along the conservative to progressive axis. Liberals by definition don’t want systemic change, they just want to be liberal in spending towards social services and regulations, but keep the capitalist structure underneath.
Liberals want freedom of some kind: liberalism; liberty. That may be freedom for individuals or for companies. It may be a negative “freedom from interference” or positive “freedom to achieve ones desires”. That variety is what gives it its many practical meanings
You see that explanation you gave? I’m going to assume it’s correct.
But that doesn’t change the fact that those terms get used as synonyms by a lot of people in the USA.
And besides that point… I was only trying to explain what the original comment was pointing to.
The rest of the world uses the actual dictionary definition. “America uses its own definition so that must be more correct” is pretty damn yankee
Never argued that it was more correct…
I’m merely explaining the original comment someone else made.
I know the pedantry is expected, but maybe we can take a step back and read intent before smashing faces into our respective keyboards?
Uh I’m greek?
