Was it not the American people who voted democraticly to put Ronald Reagan into that position. American people have to own up to their own decisions, having a constitutional democracy makes citizens responsible for the government they elect, good or bad. Just like then, just like now, American people are responsible for the government they elected. Democracy unfortunately requires active citizenry
And current voting age Americans have now lost the respect of the rest of the world and many future generations. You have allowed Trump, just as the Boomers allowed Regan.
Let’s not forget that both Bush 2000 and Trump 2016 lost the popular vote. The US system is so screwed up it produces outcomes counter to the majority desires.
It’s even more fucked up he was the most voted for candidate in 2024, in 2016 he was a joke and nobody truly knew what he’d do.
In 2024 however… He wasn’t any longer a finger to the establishment, he was the establishment, MAGA had become the most powerful branch of the Republicans and representing the most vile billionaires in the US
The US system is so screwed up it produces outcomes counter to the majority desires.
Very true.
But many tens of millions of Americans voted for a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, literal traitor (insurrection), and probable pedophile in 2024, giving him the popular vote.
Americans are very, very, very fucked up.
Our system is also fucked up and allows for minority rule, but if more Americans had their heads screwed on straight, that brain damaged minority would never have power.
You have allowed Trump, just as the Boomers allowed Regan
I allowed Trump?
…looks at demographics… 60%-65%+ of votes in each election came from boomers and old Gen X…
I dunno Bob, seems like the exact same Reagan generation is at fault here. Same people that elected every GOP candidate for the last 50 years. For all the talk of “young people elected Trump/big MAGA swing”, there was a whopping +4% change in under-50 Republican voters from 2016-2024. And even after that, under-50 Democrat votes still had a net +9% advantage over the GOP. Compare that to -8% for the over-50 crowd.
Unless you think I should be bootstrapping my own billion dollar super PAC to counter multiple decades of targeted suppression of the progressive vote, I have no idea why I’m at fault here. When I bring up that both-sidesing and anti-voting narratives literally only help the fascist takeover of America I’m shouted down. And on the flip side “[my generation has] allowed Trump” when the basic facts disavow any support for him.
“It’s my fault” that old fucks keep falling for billionaire propaganda? It’s literally their votes getting him elected. What exactly should I be doing about that? Campaigning for political euthanasia?
Well you are part of the electorate that voted for Trump. Just like any ‘old’ person is part of whatever demographic you group them with. Boomers are getting into 80yo now, starting to drop like flies. So you can’t keep blaming them. A lot of the boomers were hippies and communist wannabes in their youth. As they got older many of them became only concerned about their own comfort and security. Do you think your generation will do better?
So they can keep electing fascists but they can’t have any blame assigned to them because they’ll die shortly… And even though my peers and age cohort shows measurable opposition and we have to live through this coming hell, we’ve got blood on our hands?
A lot of the boomers were hippies and communist wannabes in their youth.
Boomer whitewashing and not true at all. The hippie counterculture was a minority that got outsized publicity. Nixon got the majority of the youth vote; many anti war protesters just didn’t want to be personally affected by drafts. Hell, a lot of those involved in the hippie movement didn’t have any strong moral/political stance, they just wanted to do drugs and listen to music.
Do you think your generation will do better?
To extend the Reagan analogy, my cohort is already opposed to this administration by a significant margin, which couldn’t be said of the boomers. If we go from that starting point to somehow electing Mecha Trump 2.0 in 40 years… They must have brought back the lead paint chips.
For a more material answer: no, my cohort won’t slip into the lure of comfort and security because that was already sold off to the boomers. There’s nothing left for us. Look at the dream they’re selling us now, if we’re good peasants we might inherit scraps from boomers or buy a 4 bedroom house from a multi-million scratch off. Wow what an offer.
Its not that they will die, its that they are dieing now and voting less. Your cohort doesn’t vote very much, and as they get older they’ll fall into the same trap. The poor with little think everyone should share. As they acquire wealth, they start to feel they should keep what they earned. They always think it’s different for them for all the particular hardships they had to endure at youth/poor. Yes people will inherit houses. Jobs will be finally passed to the next generation as people retire. There will still be plenty of poor elders, just as there are now. The following generation will have it worse in some respects - so you’ll have something to lose, so you’ll think you should be have the right the keep your own and not share. And you’ll get frightened as you become physically weaker and less mentally capable - you’ll value your security over the notion of change. You’ll start to see how those protests that sometimes get violent) should be made to go away so you can keep your status quo.
I really wish it wasn’t the case - I had high hopes for my Gen X cohort. We seemed to care about the environment, feeding the starving, being flexible regarding sexual orientation, etc. But now we’re becoming part of the problem. I see it in myself. I want a better society for everyone still, but I like my house, and I want lower property taxes. I don’t want our capitalist system to collapse as I’ve managed to save up money for retirement and can no longer ‘rough it’ as easily if I lost that. I don’t want fascism and I’ve voted left my whole life, but I can still see the shift in myself - and I recognize it in others more. So don’t throw spun stats at me. The fact that as boomers are voting less, we still have right wing governments means the trend is continuing.
Ok, let’s just put aside the stats and look at it from this perspective:
What generation in the last century was born into the high water mark for voter power in America? Put another way, who had the power to steer the country toward progressive policies with the least effort?
What generation of voters approved the corporate capture of their government (by action/inaction)? Who removed guardrails on corporate taxes, monopolies, political spending, political transparency, etc…
What generation is responsible for the narratives around voter apathy and political disengagement of Millennials, Zoomers and Alpha? Who was setting the example, who was responsible for teaching civic engagement? Who should have been pushing back?
Who was supposed to be pushing back on the erosion of voting rights? How did extreme gerrymandering and regressive schemes to disenfranchise voters get in place?
What generation had the most accessible education, the least debt, the strongest community support networks, the best access to healthcare, etc.? Put another way, who had the strongest personal security and least dependance on the system?
What generation was up against the weakest right wing establishment? Who was in the landscape least flooded by disinformation and fox news style propaganda?
I’ll give you a hint, my cohort is 0/6 on those questions.
Are there material reasons boomers made those decisions? Sure. And I’m not saying that anyone else born into that time period would have magically done anything different. But I am saying that there is very scant blame left for anyone who comes after.
No other group of people in history has been born into such incredible political advantages and steered the plane directly into fascism in one lifetime. Hell, the people in Nazi Germany had just experienced the largest war in human history and were burning money for warmth.
So nah, I don’t want want to hear anyone lumping my generation with the people who spent a lifetime actively laying out the red carpet for fascists.
I agree, and it should never be forgotten. Past generations need to shit on us as much as it takes so they don’t forget the mistakes we made.
We need so much more awareness of these evil bastards and the tools they use to control us and turn us against each other. Trump voters sided with billionaires and hate, and that shouldn’t be forgiven.
Explain to me what sense it makes for me to blame myself for trump, Reagan, or any other Republican.
Other than to say “America bad” I am not seeing any point in “taking responsibility” for people’s actions that I’ve strongly opposed. It’s such a weird thing to see this sentiment constantly, because again “America bad” is the only way it actually leads anywhere.
One of these dipshits called me out recently on saying there are a third of a billion of us so we’re not a monolith, like they thought I was coming in high because of my American egotism or some shit. I looked up the estimated current US population and it was actually higher than I’d estimated.
I mean you don’t deserve it, regardless of how many people your country has instilled that exact sentiment in around the world, it’s a clear mistake to conflate the ruled with their rulers.
That said, the vast majority of USAmericans didn’t care until it started happening around them, and many still bury their heads and won’t step beyond the most passive possible resistance (voting for a new ruler or set thereof, leaving the fundamental issues unaddressed; largely because of how closely they relate to the concentrations of power that rulers both require and personally benefit from; and the cycle continues). This isn’t unique to the US, similar is well documented during worse circumstances in Germany for example (Meet the Germans is a good book on the topic), but I can understand why some people arrive at being frustrated with you en masse.
Let’s just ignore the fact that Reagan actively conspired with Iran holding American diplomats hostage because them being freed before the election would have been a huge win for Carter and the economy, which would have tanked Reagan’s chances.
Was it not the American people who voted democraticly to put Ronald Reagan into that position. American people have to own up to their own decisions, having a constitutional democracy makes citizens responsible for the government they elect, good or bad. Just like then, just like now, American people are responsible for the government they elected. Democracy unfortunately requires active citizenry
This post completely misunderstands how the US is ran and who calls the shots. No wonder people are confused.
You’re aware of how much Americans shit on boomers, right? This is why. Boomers voted for Regan, and because of that they don’t have our respect.
And current voting age Americans have now lost the respect of the rest of the world and many future generations. You have allowed Trump, just as the Boomers allowed Regan.
Let’s not forget that both Bush 2000 and Trump 2016 lost the popular vote. The US system is so screwed up it produces outcomes counter to the majority desires.
It’s even more fucked up he was the most voted for candidate in 2024, in 2016 he was a joke and nobody truly knew what he’d do.
In 2024 however… He wasn’t any longer a finger to the establishment, he was the establishment, MAGA had become the most powerful branch of the Republicans and representing the most vile billionaires in the US
Very true.
But many tens of millions of Americans voted for a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, literal traitor (insurrection), and probable pedophile in 2024, giving him the popular vote.
Americans are very, very, very fucked up.
Our system is also fucked up and allows for minority rule, but if more Americans had their heads screwed on straight, that brain damaged minority would never have power.
I allowed Trump? …looks at demographics… 60%-65%+ of votes in each election came from boomers and old Gen X…
I dunno Bob, seems like the exact same Reagan generation is at fault here. Same people that elected every GOP candidate for the last 50 years. For all the talk of “young people elected Trump/big MAGA swing”, there was a whopping +4% change in under-50 Republican voters from 2016-2024. And even after that, under-50 Democrat votes still had a net +9% advantage over the GOP. Compare that to -8% for the over-50 crowd.
Unless you think I should be bootstrapping my own billion dollar super PAC to counter multiple decades of targeted suppression of the progressive vote, I have no idea why I’m at fault here. When I bring up that both-sidesing and anti-voting narratives literally only help the fascist takeover of America I’m shouted down. And on the flip side “[my generation has] allowed Trump” when the basic facts disavow any support for him.
“It’s my fault” that old fucks keep falling for billionaire propaganda? It’s literally their votes getting him elected. What exactly should I be doing about that? Campaigning for political euthanasia?
Well you are part of the electorate that voted for Trump. Just like any ‘old’ person is part of whatever demographic you group them with. Boomers are getting into 80yo now, starting to drop like flies. So you can’t keep blaming them. A lot of the boomers were hippies and communist wannabes in their youth. As they got older many of them became only concerned about their own comfort and security. Do you think your generation will do better?
So they can keep electing fascists but they can’t have any blame assigned to them because they’ll die shortly… And even though my peers and age cohort shows measurable opposition and we have to live through this coming hell, we’ve got blood on our hands?
Boomer whitewashing and not true at all. The hippie counterculture was a minority that got outsized publicity. Nixon got the majority of the youth vote; many anti war protesters just didn’t want to be personally affected by drafts. Hell, a lot of those involved in the hippie movement didn’t have any strong moral/political stance, they just wanted to do drugs and listen to music.
To extend the Reagan analogy, my cohort is already opposed to this administration by a significant margin, which couldn’t be said of the boomers. If we go from that starting point to somehow electing Mecha Trump 2.0 in 40 years… They must have brought back the lead paint chips.
For a more material answer: no, my cohort won’t slip into the lure of comfort and security because that was already sold off to the boomers. There’s nothing left for us. Look at the dream they’re selling us now, if we’re good peasants we might inherit scraps from boomers or buy a 4 bedroom house from a multi-million scratch off. Wow what an offer.
Its not that they will die, its that they are dieing now and voting less. Your cohort doesn’t vote very much, and as they get older they’ll fall into the same trap. The poor with little think everyone should share. As they acquire wealth, they start to feel they should keep what they earned. They always think it’s different for them for all the particular hardships they had to endure at youth/poor. Yes people will inherit houses. Jobs will be finally passed to the next generation as people retire. There will still be plenty of poor elders, just as there are now. The following generation will have it worse in some respects - so you’ll have something to lose, so you’ll think you should be have the right the keep your own and not share. And you’ll get frightened as you become physically weaker and less mentally capable - you’ll value your security over the notion of change. You’ll start to see how those protests that sometimes get violent) should be made to go away so you can keep your status quo.
I really wish it wasn’t the case - I had high hopes for my Gen X cohort. We seemed to care about the environment, feeding the starving, being flexible regarding sexual orientation, etc. But now we’re becoming part of the problem. I see it in myself. I want a better society for everyone still, but I like my house, and I want lower property taxes. I don’t want our capitalist system to collapse as I’ve managed to save up money for retirement and can no longer ‘rough it’ as easily if I lost that. I don’t want fascism and I’ve voted left my whole life, but I can still see the shift in myself - and I recognize it in others more. So don’t throw spun stats at me. The fact that as boomers are voting less, we still have right wing governments means the trend is continuing.
Ok, let’s just put aside the stats and look at it from this perspective:
I’ll give you a hint, my cohort is 0/6 on those questions.
Are there material reasons boomers made those decisions? Sure. And I’m not saying that anyone else born into that time period would have magically done anything different. But I am saying that there is very scant blame left for anyone who comes after.
No other group of people in history has been born into such incredible political advantages and steered the plane directly into fascism in one lifetime. Hell, the people in Nazi Germany had just experienced the largest war in human history and were burning money for warmth.
So nah, I don’t want want to hear anyone lumping my generation with the people who spent a lifetime actively laying out the red carpet for fascists.
I agree, and it should never be forgotten. Past generations need to shit on us as much as it takes so they don’t forget the mistakes we made.
We need so much more awareness of these evil bastards and the tools they use to control us and turn us against each other. Trump voters sided with billionaires and hate, and that shouldn’t be forgiven.
Explain to me what sense it makes for me to blame myself for trump, Reagan, or any other Republican.
Other than to say “America bad” I am not seeing any point in “taking responsibility” for people’s actions that I’ve strongly opposed. It’s such a weird thing to see this sentiment constantly, because again “America bad” is the only way it actually leads anywhere.
One of these dipshits called me out recently on saying there are a third of a billion of us so we’re not a monolith, like they thought I was coming in high because of my American egotism or some shit. I looked up the estimated current US population and it was actually higher than I’d estimated.
I get so tired of this shit. Our future is fucked and so many people out there want us to know that we “deserve” it.
I mean you don’t deserve it, regardless of how many people your country has instilled that exact sentiment in around the world, it’s a clear mistake to conflate the ruled with their rulers.
That said, the vast majority of USAmericans didn’t care until it started happening around them, and many still bury their heads and won’t step beyond the most passive possible resistance (voting for a new ruler or set thereof, leaving the fundamental issues unaddressed; largely because of how closely they relate to the concentrations of power that rulers both require and personally benefit from; and the cycle continues). This isn’t unique to the US, similar is well documented during worse circumstances in Germany for example (Meet the Germans is a good book on the topic), but I can understand why some people arrive at being frustrated with you en masse.
You act like the American people are a single entity. Do you know how many people who voted for Reagan are still even alive?
Yep. Weird how so many users do this with every other comment in their history too…
Let’s just ignore the fact that Reagan actively conspired with Iran holding American diplomats hostage because them being freed before the election would have been a huge win for Carter and the economy, which would have tanked Reagan’s chances.