flere-imsaho 🇺🇦 (@mawhrin@circumstances.run)
circumstances.run
folks, i'm sorry to inform you that justin m. keyes, the core dev of @neovim@hachyderm.io absolutely *hated* the idea of removing an endorsement by a bona fide fascist from the main webpage of the neovim editor. what happened: i've opened a ticket asking to remove the heinemeier hansson quote; keyes responded to the ticket a few times, first with simply “don't care”, then [with more angry elucidation](https://social.orva.fi/@orva/statuses/01M11PG7BASVGM95BM4A2ZAE0S), then closed as not planned, and finally the issue was removed altogether. unfortunately i have only mail receipts and a screenshot, both missing the rage part of the episode. there's [another open *undeleted* issue though](https://github.com/neovim/neovim.github.io/issues/501) which presents the attitude of keyes quite well. added: another core maintainer of neovim, tj devries, is scheduled to speak during dhh's omacon. well. and thanks to a friendly dm, i can re-create the text of my ticket here: > hey > > on the main neovim's page you quote an impression/endorsement from David Heinemeier Hansson, a [white supremacionist](https://world.hey.com/dhh/as-i-remember-london-e7d38e64) who recently [called for ethnic cleansing of immigrants; specifically the roma people](https://world.hey.com/dhh/wolves-sheep-and-gypsies-ba44af6a). > > if you could reconsider quoting an endorsement from a bona fide fascist on your website, that would be very helpful. (please do note that duke's university [decided to drop basecamp in 2023](https://blogs.library.duke.edu/blog/2023/11/30/why-were-dropping-basecamp/) specifically because of heinemeier hansson's white supremacist antics.)
  • rwdf@lemmy.world
    5·
    13 days ago

    Justinmk, the lead maintainer wrote:

    You all have embarrassed and shamed yourselves.

    Most of you aren’t Neovim users, but a drive-by mob, swirling from one mindless vomit-party to another, like the pacific garbage patch.

    • ISO@lemmy.zip
      518·
      13 days ago

      Well said by the mainrainer(sic). Should probably have mentioned the reality behind some of the leaders of the mob, who target people like (infamous nazi!) Richard Stallman.

      Totally organic! And the foot soldiers are totally mentally (and hormonally) stable!

      • AVincentInSpace@pawb.socialEnglish
        51·
        12 days ago

        You haven’t made it clear what Drew DeVault’s role is in this alleged hate-mob of non-Neovim users. The article you linked (don’t use archive.ph, by the way) doesn’t prove anything more than he likes looking at drawings of children. Even if we suppose he is actually a danger to flesh-and-blood children (which is not implied by that fact), and that there is a hate mob of non-users, and that he is behind it, that’s an ad hominem attack and a non-sequitur.

        DHH is a white supremacist. He talks on his blog about how non-white people need to be purged from society. He should be politically untouchable. I’m a 5-year NeoVim user considering switching to a new editor. Racists do not deserve our platform, and I’m not going to change my mind about that just because one of the people who agrees with me is a pedophile. Two things can be bad at once (and again, that’s if he is).

        • tatterdemalion@programming.dev
          2·
          12 days ago

          Even if we suppose he is actually a danger to flesh-and-blood children (which is not implied by that fact), and that there is a hate mob of non-users, and that he is behind it, that’s an ad hominem attack and a non-sequitur.

          Sorry for playing devil’s advocate, but I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s a non-sequitur to mention DeVault’s lolicon proclivities, and certainly not if we’re supposing he actually were a dangerous pedophile. If the point of attacking DHH’s politics – and by extension anyone associated – is to create a more inclusive software community, you can’t ignore that DeVault (a supposed ally in the fight against DHH) is at the same time hurting the inclusivity initiative by being publicly misogynistic (at best).

          I wouldn’t claim to know where DeVault sits in the balance between net positive or negative on the inclusivity front, considering he seems to have otherwise agreeable politics, but I just think you’ve weakened your argument by dismissing the reasonable criticism of DeVault’s behavior.

          That said, obviously I would rather be on the side of the likes of DeVault than DHH. With DeVault, you need to go digging to find his dark side. DHH just screams his nonsense from the mountain tops.

          • AVincentInSpace@pawb.socialEnglish
            2·
            11 days ago

            I agree with this, and I should have clarified. What I meant was that, in the event that DeVault is, in fact, a danger to children (which, given many of the quotes about pedophilia screenshotted in that very blog post, I sincerely doubt), we should be going after both him and DHH, and not abandon our campaign against DHH simply because DeVault was a part of it.

            I believe that there is a difference between a pedophile (person with urges they did not ask for and cannot choose to stop having) and a child molester (weak-willed menace to society who deserves, at minimum, a life sentence). Child molestation is, I would argue, in a close race with genocide for the most despicable evil. Many, if not most, people who are attracted to children also believe this, and seek treatment including therapy and, in extreme cases, medical intervention that eliminates all sexual desire, if they believe they may offend. If DeVault is in the former camp, and it sounds like he may be, he deserves our help getting these resources (and our reminders of what will happen if he does not make use of them and his willpower subsequently fails). If he is in the second camp, which I doubt, he deserves every ounce of ire currently aimed at DHH and then some. But even in that case, we have plenty of ire to go around, and just because a child molester hates a racist doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also hate the racist.