There are ethical lines some people actually won’t cross, e.g. voting for the Ds who make anthropogenic climate change worse and so are causing a mass extinction, sell weapons to people actively committing a genocide, further an economic system that rewards narcissistic sociopaths and punishes ethical people, …
Go look at the linked graph above again. You may not agree, but understand that there are people who do, and to get these people to vote for the Ds, you need to convince them why voting for omnicidal, genocidal, greedy sociopaths is the right thing to do. The “lesser evil” argument doesn’t work on them, because if you look at the linked graph above and compare the distances between the parties, and understand there are ethical lines between the Ds and leftists/socialists/Greens/etc. they won’t cross; then it means vastly better arguments need to be put forth. Yes the Rs are psychopaths and openly racist, but compared to the slightly less (compare the distances on the graph) sociopathic Ds, then
“It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13.
“Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
If there are no ethical options, then activity making the world more evil isn’t something these people will do.
To a point. At some point, lesser-evil, blue-no-matter-who people realize that they cannot prevent the right from gaining power without the help of these other people they have lost. They realize the only way to get these people to vote D is to shift D leftward. Then everything shifts to the left. This process has already started and barking at the people forcing this change won’t do a thing against the Rs. Helping the change progress faster might.
The problem is that when leftists don’t vote, the Democrats look at the data analytics and they see fewer leftists and more centrists. If you didn’t vote, they think you’re a centrist. They’re gonna go rightwards to try to get you to vote for them. So if you’re a neutral voter, you’re accountable for the rightward shift in the Overton window.
True but this process only works to a point when they’ve lost so many such voters that they keep losing elections the more centrist/right they go. I think we’re somewhere around, perhaps just past that point as of the last prez election. Once that crisis is reached, either it’s handled internally by alternative ideas - like running leftist candidates, or externally by having independent leftists candidates beat D candidates in elections.
I really don’t think you should abstain, I really think you should vote. But if you think abstaining is going to do any good, then for the love of all that is holy, do direct action.
But come on. Do everything you can do. Don’t stay home on election day. Express a preference.
i don’t think abstaining is the answer either. well not necessarily. it depends. i voted D last presidential election, with great nausia. but i will defend to the death everyone who did not vote or voted third party.
my thought is this, in order to stop this ratchet rightward, not only republicans must be stopped, but so too the democrats. and as such when there is any option for a progressive candidate(and i mean provably so) they should be voted for. but if the choice is between a republican and an establishment democrat you should vote third party. voting for less systemic harm is not good enough, voting for the status quos is not good enough.
and for the people wingeing about the spoiler vote. they get to choose one and only one:
either the progressives have so small a number that a candidate that represents them is not viable, in which case they are not responsible for the loss of the election, the democrat establishment is
OR
the progressives are numerous enough that their abstention forces the democrats to lose. in that case they are not responsible for the loss of the election, the democrat establishment is
People who won’t vote for the Democrats don’t necessarily see the world the same way as people who do vote D. Really go have a look at https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
There are ethical lines some people actually won’t cross, e.g. voting for the Ds who make anthropogenic climate change worse and so are causing a mass extinction, sell weapons to people actively committing a genocide, further an economic system that rewards narcissistic sociopaths and punishes ethical people, …
Go look at the linked graph above again. You may not agree, but understand that there are people who do, and to get these people to vote for the Ds, you need to convince them why voting for omnicidal, genocidal, greedy sociopaths is the right thing to do. The “lesser evil” argument doesn’t work on them, because if you look at the linked graph above and compare the distances between the parties, and understand there are ethical lines between the Ds and leftists/socialists/Greens/etc. they won’t cross; then it means vastly better arguments need to be put forth. Yes the Rs are psychopaths and openly racist, but compared to the slightly less (compare the distances on the graph) sociopathic Ds, then
“It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13.
“Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
If there are no ethical options, then activity making the world more evil isn’t something these people will do.
Yeah but not voting just shifts everything further right.
To a point. At some point, lesser-evil, blue-no-matter-who people realize that they cannot prevent the right from gaining power without the help of these other people they have lost. They realize the only way to get these people to vote D is to shift D leftward. Then everything shifts to the left. This process has already started and barking at the people forcing this change won’t do a thing against the Rs. Helping the change progress faster might.
The problem is that when leftists don’t vote, the Democrats look at the data analytics and they see fewer leftists and more centrists. If you didn’t vote, they think you’re a centrist. They’re gonna go rightwards to try to get you to vote for them. So if you’re a neutral voter, you’re accountable for the rightward shift in the Overton window.
True but this process only works to a point when they’ve lost so many such voters that they keep losing elections the more centrist/right they go. I think we’re somewhere around, perhaps just past that point as of the last prez election. Once that crisis is reached, either it’s handled internally by alternative ideas - like running leftist candidates, or externally by having independent leftists candidates beat D candidates in elections.
voting establishment dems… also shifts everything further right
I really don’t think you should abstain, I really think you should vote. But if you think abstaining is going to do any good, then for the love of all that is holy, do direct action.
But come on. Do everything you can do. Don’t stay home on election day. Express a preference.
i don’t think abstaining is the answer either. well not necessarily. it depends. i voted D last presidential election, with great nausia. but i will defend to the death everyone who did not vote or voted third party.
my thought is this, in order to stop this ratchet rightward, not only republicans must be stopped, but so too the democrats. and as such when there is any option for a progressive candidate(and i mean provably so) they should be voted for. but if the choice is between a republican and an establishment democrat you should vote third party. voting for less systemic harm is not good enough, voting for the status quos is not good enough.
and for the people wingeing about the spoiler vote. they get to choose one and only one:
either the progressives have so small a number that a candidate that represents them is not viable, in which case they are not responsible for the loss of the election, the democrat establishment is
OR
the progressives are numerous enough that their abstention forces the democrats to lose. in that case they are not responsible for the loss of the election, the democrat establishment is