- cross-posted to:
- map_enthusiasts@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- map_enthusiasts@sopuli.xyz
You must log in or register to comment.
Please note that in Germany you get 2 votes in the federal election. 1st is for a candidate to directly represent your district, 2nd is for a party nation wide. The map only shows the election result for the 2nd vote.
Here’s another map to show the party affiliation of winners of the 1st vote:
Colors are the same, except blue. Blue represents CSU, essentially the Bavarian version of the CDU (Christian Democratic Union).
I’m shocked AFD is eastern
I’m not. Populism thrives when people are dissatisfied and angry. East Germany is economically not as strong as the west, despite decades of reunion.
Sounds like it’s following in America’s footsteps, where rural and rust belt regions were kinda left behind by the federal government. The south is more complex but similar.
As a mexican… U right and u right
Soviet brain damage lingers on.
Taking the ex-communist countries as a whole, my impression is that forced social progress gets in the way of real social progress. Add a shitty economy on top of that, and you have fertile ground for fascists.
Many East Germans long for the DDR. It’s not surprising they vote for a party that wants to undermine democracy.
I read a long time ago that the divide was quire real in germany, the esteners had bad education (thank you Soviet Union) and were generally way poorer than the rich west germans, which lead to all kind of problems and the east germans felt like slave workers for the rich BMW drivers.
I don’t know how much that played a role in the election but I sure think it’s a breeding ground for a populistic party …
Unfortunately capitalism completely exploited the remains of the DDR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treuhandanstalt
“Bad education”? WTF are you talking about? The east experienced a full-on brain-drain after the borders were dissolved and the people who stayed got screwed by the Treuhand.
You’re talking about scientists I guess, I was referring to the global population that learned state planned economy and russian instead of English for example.
But I’m not here to lecture anyone, thanks for the feedback.
… so you’re saying that learning russian, instead of english makes you dumb? O.o
And don’t get me started on economic education. If I’d judge the intellect of a person based on their understanding of economy, then I’d never stop to wonder how so many people were able to put their pants on in the morning.
If you’re wondering what the AfD districts in the West were: Gelsenkirchen in the north and Kaiserslautern in the south.
The most notable thing in Kaiserslautern is Ramstein air base and friends. I guess the military votes far-right.
I have no idea what’s up with Gelsenkirchen. SPD came second with CDU just behind, so maybe it’s what would be vote splitting in a dumber electoral system. As it is, the map is just a map.
You can find an interactive version here.
Gelsenkirchen is a traditional working class area, which used to be secure SPD heartland. SPD has lost voters massively to AfD among workers over the years, including among the immigrant working class.
Soldiers in Germany tend to vote CDU. The last couple of years the head of the Bundestag’s defense commission Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann from the FDP was super popular. In the past SPD was also really strong. These two polls on the Bundeswehr subreddit have FDP and CDU together with a supermajority. Now that’s of course not representative, but gives you an idea that the military doesn’t vote far right.
including among the immigrant working class.
Really?? That doesn’t seem possible, since people tend not to vote for candidates that openly hate them. Do you have a source?
Soldiers in Germany tend to vote CDU. The last couple of years the head of the Bundestag’s defense commission Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann from the FDP was super popular. In the past SPD was also really strong. These two polls on the Bundeswehr subreddit have FDP and CDU together with a supermajority.
That makes sense. CDU is (by German standards) strong on defence, even I know that.
Now that’s of course not representative, but gives you an idea that the military doesn’t vote far right.
I was reminded of the scandals relating to Wehrmacht idolisation, but I have no idea how how widespread a problem that is, so I’ll defer to you.
https://taz.de/Tuerken-fuer-die-AfD/!5449750/
This is about Germans with Turkish background. It’s the same as in other countries: We came here legally and are law abiding taxpayers. These illegal newcomers are criminals and ruin the image of all immigrants. It’s about law and order and strong leadership. If you vote Erdogan in Turkey, AfD is closest in Germany. The Grey Wolves are the biggest right wing extremist organizations in Germany as well, so keep that in mind.
German-Turks are also specifically targeted like in this video by Krah appealing to nationalist sentiments and referring back to German-Turkish alliance going back to WW1.
scandals relating to Wehrmacht idolisation
Yes, this happens from time to time as does other crap. The severity of these cases varies.
In 2023 the Bundeswehr let go of 62 soldiers, among them 10 officers, for extremism. It’s not just nazis, but also for example anti-vax conspiracy nutters. I don’t have any comparisons of these numbers to other armed forces.
The Bundeswehr emphasizes democratic values and educates people along their principles of Innere Führung and Staatsbürger in Uniform. For example that soldiers are ultimately serving their conscience is stressed. Structurally the Bundeswehr also has differences to other militaries. There are no separate military courts for example. Crimes involving soldiers get dealt with by regular courts.
In 2019 about 15% of soldiers have immigrant parents or immigrated themselves. Of course they can be extremists just as well.
Interesting! I found this study with an actual table of migrant political support by origin: https://www.dezim-institut.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Demo_FIS/publikation_pdf/FA-6235.pdf
Unfortunately Turks get lumped in with MENA in this one, and it comes out to around the the same as for other groups - probably because support from those derived from the rest of the Islamic world is low.
I can’t actually read German, but from the percentages not adding up I assume this is some kind of favourability rather than voting intention, and it still comes out to just 20% or so.
US Military can’t vote in German elections. The only voting population involved with the military would be NATO Aircom and even that German population would be small compared to the 80%+ turnout.
Lippe which includes GFM-Rommel-Kaserne voted CDU with 27%.
Even in Grafenwöhr CDU was around 27%.
I kind of assumed there’d be lots of German servicepeople on those bases too. Interesting that it doesn’t work that way.
So why do you think Kaiserslautern went AfD?
I want to say the anti American sentiment but also Kaiserslautern is the 2nd stop in Germany from France (first being Saarbrücken). So there may be anti immigration influence.
Additionally Kaiserslautern has lost a ton of manufacturing capabilities with the withdraw of Pfaff and Opel in the area may have caused many loss of jobs and general upset of the population.
I think it’s time to unreunite Germany.
Reuters has an interactive map where you can see the percentages for each district
Shows a bit more of a positive view in the sense if your looking at this as an American and think AFD got a majority in all east Germany, they didn’t, the bluest areas are 40-44% percent while most are at around the 32-36%, but they got the plurality. A bit depressing though in that all of west Germany they’re taking 15-20% which this map doesn’t show well
Sad to see 1/3 of german voted for nazi in both local and federal vote.
20% is 1/5. It is still too much but not the end. 80% did not vote for them. And the left go stronger too and keeps growing. This is the beginn of the fight, not the end.
Edit: I take it back. FUCK THE CDU!
Get vicious with nazis early on, if you are truly sure they’re nazis. Don’t want Germany becoming the next Nazi America.
We are on it. There are several efforts, including high-profile ones, to ban the AfD. At the same time, we are fighting fascism on all fronts, online and offline.
It’s funny to see Berlin, a Linke haven, lost in a huge sea of nazis.
Leipzig similarly
“Extremes” both sides, ie. the Nazis and the Left party, are more popular in the east, no doubt because it is poorer, so people are less satisfied with the status quo.
It looks like it’s just West-Berlin + a suburb of West-Berlin, while the rest of old East-Germany went fascist.
Edit: I had misread the map when I made the above comment. The CDU in West-Berlin are not the only non fascists, East-Berlin has not gone fascist, but mostly went for Die Linke.
CDU is not fascist, it’s center left.
Edit: I meant center right. Still, not fascist.
?
I said East-Germany went fascist. On the map CDU rules the roost in West-Germany and west-berlin, so I never said that I consider CDU to be fascist.
I thought you meant the rest of Berlin went fascist too?
Sorry, I apparently had misread the map, I thought east-berlin had mostly gone afd as well. The color of Die Linke had blended in with the color of afd, so it had seemed like it was just an island of black colored west-berlin in a sea of afd.
And yes, I’m partially color blind, which isn’t an excuse, but might explain it a little.
The eastern most district did go fascist, but that’s not surprising.
“The planet is fine - the people are fucked.” George Carlin
It looks dramatic, but afaik the old GDR states have much lower pop and density. Unless germany starts some funny business with electors and whatnot, i daresay this is not that bad of a result.
It is so striking where AfD is popular thought.
A long time ago I visited one of my parents’ friends in East Germany with them, and I said something about how it was good that Germany reunified after the wall fell.
My parent’s friend said, people here don’t think it was a good thing. People here felt like they lost the war.
I never realized that was a thing.
When you grow up in west Germany, you kinda never realize that the GDR was basically annexed by west Germany.
The majority of people in the GDR actually didn’t want to turn capitalist, but they rather wanted another, more liberal form of socialism. Also, the Treuhand basically destroyed the east German industry which was then bought up by the West.
So, actually the “finally reunited” narrative is the one that’s overly romantic, not (only) nostalgia for the GDR.
wanted another, more liberal form of socialism
How is AfD helping?
That’s a very distant phenomenon and more a result of the economic misery the east Germans have been experiencing for the last 35 years than a yearning for socialism.
Also, the east was targeted for neonazi agitation by westerners after the wall fell.
Credibility to forward east german interests
That all makes sense.
Another “story” I’ve heard is that the East German factories were basically years behind in safety and efficiency and environment harm, and so a lot of them were shuttered after unification. Was this the Treuhand?
The job of the Treuhand was it to check if a business were able to survive the transition to capitalism; most weren’t so they were closed. The problem is that many people in the GDR believe that they were scammed by the west, when in reality they were scammed by their own government for decades.
They were scammed. The exchange rate of the Ostmark to the DMark was great for consumption, but made etern businesses unsustainable. They were then bought up by sleazy investors for a pittance.
You can say about political liberties in the GDR what you want, but domestic production was actually really good over there.
On top of that, East Germany didn’t get the investment they were promised after unification. I don’t think it is a coincidence that the people who didn’t live under Neoliberalism 40 years ago are rejecting it today.
Interesting, indeed. Maybe it’s a form of nostalgia? We still have plenty of people missing the comunists in my country, usually folk that had it better during the regime. But I never heard “we felt like we lost the war”.
Any chance that NATO skepticism is a big issue in East Germany, and the actual appeal of AfD?
There’s the 1/5 AfD and 1/4 Union. Maybe the westies start to take the socio economic discrepancies between them and their eastern counterparts serious.
Können wir bitte die Mauer wieder aufbauen?
Um jede Großstadt, die nicht schwarz oder blau ist?
And people ask me why I would live in Cologne (Köln) if I had to live anywhere else.
Downvote me more please.
You can’t display a map like this on map enthusiasts that gives a false representation of the election based on land area instead of population density and not be called out on it. It’s a shit way to represent data and sows more discord than gives the proper story of what happened
Hmm, that’s true.
Actually, if this wasn’t a map community I’d be more worried. In theory people here will know maps hide heterogeneity.
I think the Elsson here is that east Germany is still very much a Russian subject tbh
Based Aachen! 💚
You caneven see the big University cities in Germany: cologne, Münster, Aachen.
Iron curtain still alive.
