Summary
Tesla replaced many laid-off U.S. workers with foreign H-1B visa holders after a 2024 wave of layoffs affecting 15,000 employees.
These visas, tied to employer sponsorship, often lower compensation and give employers significant leverage over workers.
Critics argue this displaces U.S. employees, as senior engineers were replaced by lower-paid junior engineers.
CEO Elon Musk, while advocating for expanding H-1B visa caps, faces backlash, especially from conservatives, for “job-stealing” concerns.
Musk contends there’s a U.S. skill shortage, but critics highlight potential exploitation tied to Tesla’s demanding work culture and visa dependence.
There is no skill shortage, the skill shortage is absolute bullshit. There is nothing you can learn in a College Classroom that they can’t teach you in the field 9 out of 10 times
It is what it has always been. A desire to fill six figure positions with people willing to do them for the minimum wage. (Protip: The exchange rate exists)
Not even just that, H1-Bs are about two steps shy of importing slave labor. Once you’re here in the US, you have to stay continually employed. If you don’t become a citizen or gain another type of visa, you get deported if you’re not working for a sponsoring company for more than 30 days. Companies continually use this to ensure compliance from workers who might otherwise complain about things like working conditions or pay or long hours.
The American Elite considers the poor lazy because we do not work for free.
I can’t really speak for other areas, but at least in Science and Engineering what a College does that you don’t get “in the field” (because it doesn’t directly lead to operational results so you don’t get the time to learn it) is the foundations for the work you do, so the Mathematics and the “why” certain things work as they work rather than merely the “how” to do it (or at least it did back when I got my degree 3 decades ago).
Mind you, in my experience your “9 out 10 times” point is probably right at least in what I do - Software Development - that kind of knowledge is only useful in a fraction of the work for a fraction of the people, generally the kind of developer who is a “tool maker” rather than just a “tool user” working in things which are stretching the envelope of what can be done and are innovative or unusual technically (so, not “innovative” business models, which are what most of Tech Startups do nowadays), which might actually be an even worse ratio than 1 in 10 for those people vs the general universe in even just Software Development (much less Tech in general).
I supposed that what I’m trying to say is that at least in Tech you’re not going to be all that great at doing work which extends the boundaries of what is possible without the kind of foundations a good Science or Engineering degree will give you - hence there is value in such education - but the vast majority of people in even the supposedly expert positions in Tech aren’t extending the boundaries of what is possible, not even close.
(In other words, I’m expanding on what you said rather than disagreeing with it)
Indeed, maybe I should try to see if I can get a better job than janitor.
Maybe it would help this country a lot if businesses were encouraged to not require college degrees for as many positions. I mean the fact that they’re trying to hire people from third world countries who aren’t exactly “Harvard Material” for these gigs, I mean I’m not calling them dumb, heavens no. But in those kinds of places I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they’re still using Windows Vista if you know what I mean, basic computer literacy isn’t as common in these regions as it is here… So that kinda gives up the game right there doesn’t it?
The problem is that what people need in the environment we live in (i.e. Capitalism) is monetisable skills, whilst often College Degrees, whilst teaching people things that are very hard, if not impossible, to learn elsewhere, do not in fact provide people with monetisable skills. A good example would be most Arts Degrees. I was lucky that my natural inclination was towards Science and Engineering and that I had a knack for Programming, but had I gone done the other direction that I had a bit of a knack for - Acting - my life would’ve been totally different (judging by some acquaintances of mine from that world, it would’ve been a way way harder life in the financial sense).
As for the hiring people from third world countries, in the case of India (if that’s one of the ones you mean), having had several colleagues from there and from talking to them it seems that whilst indeed most people don’t even have basic computer literacy (I’m not even sure if being able to read and write is something that a majority of people can do there), there are people that do have access to the same stuff as in Developed Countries (at worst they just pirate it) and even though they’re a small fraction of all people, in a country with so many people it still adds to a larger number. Companies abroad aren’t hiring the poor countryside illiterate people who can’t even speak English (I believe most people in India can’t), they’re hiring the Middle and Upper Middle class from over there and given the massive, massive inequality there, those did have access to modern computers and software.
Same thing would apply to places like South America - lots of poor people who are totally computer illiterate (often just plain illiterate in the general sense) but a minority did have access to all the same things as in Developed countries - most having maybe not as powerful computers and using mostly pirated software, but still the same stuff.
That said, I totally agree that college degrees shouldn’t be required for many positions they are required for nowadays. The degrees there aren’t really required because they teach things needed or even useful for those positions, they’re required because there’s an imbalance of offer vs demand for those jobs (too many candidates, too few jobs) so those hiring just put that requirement there because “we lose nothing from doing it and, who knows, maybe the degree will come in handy at some point” plus they’re kind of an easy way to thin the applications.
If the job market was tighter demanding degrees for jobs not requiring them would stop. And, yeah, at least in certain areas the mainstream parties helping out business interests by giving away work visas like confetti is the reason why the job market is not as tight in many areas as it would naturally be.
He was raised by parents who made their money on slave labour in an apartheid state, sooooo…
Is there any politician that actually stands up to tech? It’s like a cheat code that not even Trump is immune to. Nobody wants to be politician who says no to those nerds who use “innovation” as a weapon. Except most of the tech industry is rather useless but everyone is too afraid to be accused of being tech illiterate. We’re not losing anything by saying no to the 10000th buzzword salad tech company making yet another useless widget.
The continued disempowerment of American unions and American worker solidarity over many decades ultimately culminates with this overt power grab by American Capitalists. Others here have rightly pointed out that these foreign workers are fleeing their own capitalistic nightmares (oftentimes imposed on them long ago by an imperialistic western hegemony), and thusly are not truly to blame for wanting to come to America with the prospect of making a better life for themselves and their loved ones.
Even if some of them might be aware that their coming here and taking jobs for lower wages has a negative impact on domestic labor, their impetus remains the same: escape poverty, keep your head down, fulfill your employer mandated duties, and survive.
Let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. As George Carlin put it, American coorporate business owners want only one thing from their workers: obedience.
“Well we know what they want. They want OBEDIENT WORKERS! OBEDIENT WORKERS! Just smart enough to run all the machines, and do all the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs…”
The long term model for Capitalists across the globe has been to cripple the rights of workers over multiple generations if necessary.
This is because they think we deserve nothing. The fact that they provide us the means to survive is something they feel we should be grateful for. But for us to ask, nay demand, to survive with dignity? That is blasphemy to them.
In regards to dignity, they see that as little more than a business transaction. How much profit did you make them last quarter is directly equivalent to the amount of dignity they will afford you, as long as you also bend the knee and kiss the ring every day.
They look to places like China or India with their terrible working conditions and worker compliance and salivate at a future where American labor is no different. They look to those same places and lust after the crushing of political dissent and resistance movements that exist there.
This is the model they are now bringing to the people of America. And they know many of us won’t stand for it, but ultimately resistance movements are not preventative, but rather palliative, giving them the advantage of the aggressor. I’ve always said and truly believed, “Americans will never bend the knee for a King. Never.”
But obviously I was wrong, and naive. Trump is forming his monarchy. America was born out of hatred for monarchs. Yet through our own vile prejudices, hatreds, and other weaknesses, we have plagued the world over with our ideologies through war, imperialism, colonialism. I know a true nightmare is manifesting here now. All that is left for us now is to go to our respective hills, and die on them.
EDIT: wording.
Only this time, it’s real!
“They” being some duplicitous Capitalist.
Why the need to specify “duplicitous”?
It’s a good SAT word
They have been doing it since the 90s, at least.
If anyone has watched the first season of Squid Game, this is precisely what the show has been making a point of. Both locals and foreigners are exploited by the owner-class. That being said, does Elon watch dystopian movies and shows and actually copies them for the lols?
Google has been doing the same. Hell, I reckon most big corps have
Lol. Lmao.
So much for make America great again…
This was sarcasm if anyone was wondering
Great for billionaires. Make workers desperate, scared, docile, and cheap.
Come on now, this is all parody. No one was upset about H1Bs until two minutes ago when musk started infighting with maga.
These people and their ancestors have not paid taxes or contributed to the US in anyway. Younger people are struggling with the cost of life and now are being displaced by cheaper workers from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Africa who don’t mind living in bad conditions and get paid unfairly.
Are you purposefully playing the perfect rube? Exploited immigrants are not the bad guy here, the owning class is.
They do pay taxes while they are working under the visa program: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/taxation-of-alien-individuals-by-immigration-status-h-1b#%3A~%3Atext=If+the+H-1B+alien%2Cunder+an+income+tax+treaty.
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Huh, shocking.
As is (sadly) becoming tradition.
Capitalist doing capitalist things.
Tesla is shitty, that doesn’t mean H-1B’s are evil. Don’t be so predictable and fight just because the people you oppose support something. That’s just another form of control.
The concept of the H1B is fine, but it is way, way, way overused by large companies. They’re not evil, but the way they’re handed out is just not enforced in any reasonable way.
There are dozens of similarly-skilled US workers for almost every single H1B that’s handed out in the tech industry. People on these visas are just significantly cheaper and will never, ever complain for fear of being deported.
And why don’t they want to be deported? H1Bs, as shitty as they are, are an opportunity for many. Sure, we should regulate them better but that’s not where the fight is at. This debate you are having inside of a debate is pointless, fruitless, and is exactly what media would like you to do after having seen everyone coalesce around Luigi. This tatic is old and tired and you are tiring me out falling for it every damn time.
You are arguing part of their compensation is being allowed to be in america.
I have a different perspective. Sure, we want talent in our country. Let’s set aside that H-1B is an abusive program only a half-step away from indentured servitude. Can we agree that we actually want all nations’ citizens to be healthy, well-educated, and high functioning? If we can agree on that point, we should work to enable and empower those workers in their home countries.
This obviously requires other factors: penalties for offshoring, compulsory unions, strong unions, limiting corporate power, strong environmental protection… And while I’m dreaming, I still want an RC car for Xmas.
But seriously, brain drain is real. And pulling talent from other countries is just colonization on a smaller scale, but with serious impacts for both countries involved. If US corporations can’t compete without importing talent, all while refusing to invest in our citizens, they deserve to be consigned to the scrapheap.
Musk contends there’s a U.S. skill shortageBillionaire twat contends that he doesn’t want to pay for competent employees and prefers slave labor.
Fixed that for him.
So… Tiktok trend? Light a tesla on fire? Make owning his crap such a liability no one ever buys any of it.
No such thing as a skill shortage. Pay, and they will come or the ones you have here will learn.
Not the case for highly skilled roles that are likely the ones affected here.
Each H1B application must include a DOL certification stating that the foreign worker will be paid a DOL specified minimum salary for the role, often exceeding 100k.
In fact since no such certification is necessary for domestic workers, in theory, they could have been paid less than foreign workers.
This has more to do with laying off experienced employees in senior roles and higher salary brackets and replacing them with “junior” roles at lower salaries, with the same work expectation.
Layoffs are also a way to take back unvested stock from senior long-serving employees and granting new employees a fraction of that released stock. Just making it a requirement to automatically vest all stocks during layoffs will massively reduce the layoffs.
If it’s software engineers and such (where usually a bunch of H1B visas come into play), the domestic workers absolutely want way more than 100k.
It’s not about the 100k number. That’s just to say that we are not talking about minimum wage level salaries here. H1B requirements are very strict about equivalent pay for domestic and foreign workers. In my career, I have never been in a situation where at the same title, role responsibilities, and company tenure, there were significant differences in salary levels.
This is 100% about employers laying off workers
- hired at much higher salaries than the minimum (like 500k TC for a minimum 180k role) when the job market was competitive and now lowering them because the market has tilted to be employer friendly.
- releasing unvested stock from experienced employees so they can grant much lower stocks to new employees.
It affects both US and domestic workers equally.
However it is the case that H1B workers have no other choice but to find themselves in these exploitative situations since they were also included in earlier layoffs and now have a clock ticking for them to leave the country in 60 days or find a new job. While domestic workers can spend more time exploring options or even starting their own businesses, which is an option not available to H1B workers.
Ultimately, it’s misguided to make this a domestic vs foreign worker issue when it’s the employers who are being exploitative and taking advantage of the situation because they can.
You can easily make H1B work 80 hours a week, as they know the moment they are fired they’ll have to return to their home country.
Also while other professions might indeed have higher salaries under H1B, Software Engineering salary is way under the average.
At my first job it if college, we had one QA guy at a small company. He did everything. He worked 12+ hours a day and weekends to support a team of ~8 devs iirc.
He was an H-1B. He didn’t have a choice but to work his butt off and do anything they asked.
At one point while I was there, they honored him at some company party, thanking him for his hard work over the last 2 years. The gift was a $100 restaurant gift card.
And management had the nerve to be “shocked” when he quit immediately after getting his green card.
Double the hours, half the price.
