Heheh, this shitpost triggers me.
My mom was forcing us a macrobiotic diet back in the day. We were strictly vegan, although fish is allowed in that diet, some vegetables like patatoes and tomatoes are not. Hardcore vegans…
My school lunch was mostly sushi with a filling of fermented prune called umeboshi, or tempeh and seaweeds, pumpkin or rice balls and sesame seeds. We were underfed, yellow flaky skin because of the overdose of carotene and you see everyone around you in school eating candy, fries, meat and what not while also taking the piss at you for being different and stinking of that diet.
At dinner I use to bury my Iziki seaweed in the plant pot because I just couldn’t swallow that shit without gagging. If I did not behave mom would go…”you’re behaviour is to yang, next two weeks on a yin diet”. Disgusting.
By the age of 12, me and my sister got into stealing money from our parents real quick to buy normal or fast food, annoying the guy at the snackbar on wheels for free fries, shoplifting and shit. Yeah, good times.
Oh, and this is not a rant against vegans, everyone is welcome at my house, if you are good anybody. I even have pots and pans that never touched meat. I will serve you any grilled vegetables, beans, salads and vinaigrettes, pesto’s and bread, or baked patatoes and what not. I used to cook vegan for the homeless here in Amsterdam when I was mostly homeless and squatting myself in what we call squatting cafe’s.
You are living up to, and by my estimation exceeding, your username. Sorry to hear you had a rough childhood. Glad to hear that things are better - you sound like an awesome host.
That’s a batshit insane diet, not a vegan one. Fish allowed but potatoes and tomatoes forbidden? What is the logic here? Or is this just some weird “diet” that’s supposed to make you more “pure” or something?
Tomatoes and potatoes are both nightshades.
Some people think they exacerbate autoimmune conditions and digestive issues. Some are simply allergic or intolerant to it.Probably, OP was also not having peppers, or eggplants.
This diet just feels not worth living for lol all my favorite foods are banned
Having separate cookware is really considerate n_n
Obligatory Mitchell and Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpRmmMyNYo
that’s why i hate religious restrictions
Yes I agree.
Not only the diet, but the whole cult around it. Faith healers, homeopathy, people chewing on brown riceballs for an hour counting how many chews they had so they can show off how far they are on their macrobiotic spiritual journey. “You gotta chew your seaweed at least a 100 times”. These mf’s should not be around kids or have any (yes I would not exist). I am not on speaking terms and won’t open the door for my parents, get fucked.
That is disturbing. Cultish.
Thats cause it is, theres a link between vegan new age bullshit (and I aint talking about your average neo pagan) and cults. Basically back in the 1800s you started seeing new cults form with weird dietary restrictions, the most well known example is Mormons. As time went on you got groups like the Seventh day Adventists and also a sprouting of eugenicists who supported veganism. Then after WW2 a lot of it was repackaged and got mixed in with the holy rollers, new agers, and general woo bullshit by the late 50s going into the sixties.
The current form is a mildly modsrnized versionsof the 1950s BS going into today. There is also some random other shit having to do with prohibition for the 1800s part pf the movement hence Mormons but the links in general are odd.
Also I aint saying this about all vegans, veganism has existed for millenia im only talking about the woo woo bullshit types. Ya know the ones.
What dietary restrictions do Mormons have?
No alcohol, I was using them as an illustration of the trend. It started out with prohibition tendencies back in the 1800s and evolved from there.
Aaah ok. It’s pretty run of the mill compared to (gestures broadly) the rest of their practices and beliefs.
Don’t confuse that with veganism though
Isn’t veganism essentially a religious belief? Even if not, it is equally illogical.
No. It seems like you don’t know what veganism is. It’s a philosophical stance and therefore completely different to any religion. It’s based n logical arguments. If you don’t like the suffering of animals and when they’re harmed without any necessity, it’s very likely that your core moral beliefs are the same as of any vegan.
It is logical. That’s why nobody can argue with the logic of the core arguments.
I’m curious. how is it illogical for you?
Although I entirely agree with the spirit of your point I’d like to add a long-winded side-note (essentially “and also”, not “but”). I guess when treated as a “title” Veganism is an inherently philosophical stance, but many conflate “Veganism” with “Having A Strictly Vegan Diet/Lifestyle” so my comment is for those people. Some who identify with the latter of the two (like myself) may be as such - or at least have become as such - for various other “logical reasons”. In the early-90s I inadvertantly became “mostly vegetarian, sometimes pescaterian” due to living with a vegetarian girlfriend. Working in an extremely physically strenuous career, and also coming from a childhood littered with various unexplainable health “issues”, I noticed (with hindsight) huge and surprising physiological benefits from that change. Due to that, and reading about how fundamental human classifying parameters are at the very herbivorous end of the spectrum (nails not claws, very long intestines, low-acidity digestive system which struggles to break down harder animal cell-walls in food, sweating through skin not tongue, mostly non-canine teeth, not having predatory close-set eyes, etc), I proceeded within a year to full vegetarianism - this time consciously. It took years to overcome the n00b mistakes (lack of nutritional knowledge, cooking skills, motivation) that usually eventually turn people back off vegetarianism, and at that point as some of the “fog of war” cleared I noticed a few lingering “issues” from my youth. I had researched food intolerances so did a test to find I was moderately intolerant to 3 types of meat and a few other odd things, and more importantly strongly intolerant to milk (and milk products). The followup consultant told me such a strong reaction indicates all animal-milk would be problematic, not just cow’s. That prompted going vegan in about 2013, with such a dramatic further health-improvement I had to tell myself not to obsess with “if only I’d known this 30 years ago”. Even though I have since become increasingly “philosophically vegan” through a kind of mental osmosis, the point I want to make here is that was really post-hoc, as a side-effect. My original drivers were “purely by accident, then conscious but for functional reasons”. These days - nearly 30 years after going vegetarian and more than 10 years after going vegan - I just do some resistance/weight-training each morning yet I’m far more healthy and “built” than I ever was throughout an effectively “acrobatic” career (even when training for that career 45hrs/week and eating half-kilo mincemeat-based meals as a teenager), even though I ended that career years ago. Those are also very “logical reasons” in addition to the usual “logical ethical vegan reasons regarding treatment of animals”, as also are the “logical ecological reasons” too (particularly the extreme amount of deforestation that is done to create grazing land for livestock).
It is completly illogical and it tries to impose unnatural limitations - you know, like religions do.
I’m not a vegan - but we are omnivores, we can eat plants. There is nothing unnatural about it. Let alone if you compare it to our modern ‘normal’ food, which is chock full of extra sugar, extra fat, extra protein, extra artificial additives like preservatives, sweeteners, and what not. It’s also factual that you can get more energy out of directly consuming plant material than eating an animal that consumed said plant material. If you take the biggest offenders for that, cows. You need 8 kg of feed for them to produce a kg of meat, this is known as it’s feed conversion ratio (source). Other animals (Like chicken and fish) are better, but a ration below 1 is essentially impossible.
I like the taste of meat as much as the next (average) person, but vegans do have a factual basis for their stance. But non-vegans rebuttal to that is realistically just “I don’t want to give up meat because I like it” not “the facts aren’t on your side.” - Lets be honest about that.
but we are omnivores, we can eat plants. There is nothing unnatural about it.
Yup, precisely, there is nothing unnatural about omnivores eating plants and meat. It is an attempt to restrict part of this normal for omnivores diet which is unnatural and this is what religions do. Thus my point.
My question was how it’s illogical to you and your answer is “it’s completely illogical”?
Like, how hard is it to write down a simple sentence in which you explain why it’s illogical!?
I can do you a favour and already unfold it: The vegan argument is that unnecessary harm towards animals should be avoided when it’s “possible and practical”, like when you live in a modern society, you don’t need to buy leather clothes or eat meat, there is no necessity to do so because of the incredible amount of alternatives, where no animal needs to be killed nor harmed.
To say thats illogical therefore means that you see no logic in avoiding unnecessary harm towards animals. So please, just start your response like this:
“I don’t see how it’s logical that we should avoid unnecessary harm towards animals, because…”
It is illogical to impose limitations on what humans can it, apart from perhaps health reasons (allergies etc.).
Religions do that. You cannot eat pork/beef etc, depending on the religion. Vegans also do that and it is equally moronic.
Why the forbidden potatoes and tomatoes?
Everything in the genetic family of nightshade. Solanaceae.
“Fruits including tomatoes, tomatillos, eggplant/aubergine, bell peppers and chili peppers, all of which are closely related members of the Solanaceae.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanaceae
All the delicious plant based stuff snuffed out in a macrobiotic diet.
The nightshade family is in like half of what humans even eat that’s ridiculous
Well it is a spiritual journey, you don’t need to sin on food.
What was the so called spiritual part of abstaining from these, or in in general, on this whole thing? No need to answer if you dont feel like it or whatever, just thank you for your insights.
From what I learned a higher spiritual state is only achieved through discipline and rigoureus diet, ultimately one could live on a bowl of brown rice a day rule the earth. It is all really 1970s zen.
It is now, but it wasn’t until the Columbian Exchange. Eggplant is the only edible nightshade variety from the eastern continents, the rest being native to South and Central America.
To clarify, Native Americans are not humans.
(Joking)
Maybe it’s half of what you eat, but I’ve been “allergic” to nightshades my whole life and never felt lacking in options (I have a mast cell disorder, tomatos, potatoes etc cause anaphylaxis, it’s not a true allergy, but it functions like one)
I can eat practically anything, it’s only like 20 plants I’m allergic to out of like 700 I have available to me. And if I travelled overseas I’d find more stuff I could safely eat there too.
I just can’t eat much pre-made, packaged organic convenience foods. Most will contain potato starch, unmarked dextrose, “spices” (if it’s not specific in the ingredients list, often I avoid), etc
Even desserts aren’t safe because e160c, paprika, is what most companies here used when they swapped out the red dye 40.
So I cook from scratch, but I’ve never felt limited in my own kitchen because of the ingredients I have. (I am limited at restaurants, I usually order a black coffee and enjoy my dining friend’s company)
I also don’t live in the America’s, so that helps. I can see why they would think nightshades are everything, all the best foods from the Americas start with tomato, or capsicums, and potato is a staple carb. Meanwhile my cultural diet is based on brassicas and oats.
But at the end of the day, Beans and rice is nightshade free, it doesn’t take a genius to think of a non-nightshade vegetable to add to the mix to make a unique meal.
You refuted my point that they’re in everything by saying it’s easy to avoid nightshades if you: don’t eat out, eat premade food, no eating red colored things, don’t live in the Americas, don’t eat anything ambiguously labeled just spices, and fallback to rice and beans when in doubt? Of course if you’re making your own food you can avoid it and still make stuff you like but op was talking about having these restrictions forced on them to the point they were stealing food. That’s the ridiculous part they didn’t have a choice in the matter and got cut out of all the things you listed with no good way around it
I have no words, I’m sure you’ve heard it all. Thanks for sharing this story and sorry for your childhood. Hope you’re healing.
Thank you for caring, that is better than anything spoken.
I’m curious why fish was allowed and why tomatoes weren’t, do you know what their reasoning was?
Beats me, maybe a land animal was more scentient than anything out of the sea. There are vegetarians having no problem eating fish.
That would per definition be pescetarians
It’s the microbial diet, so it’s got nothing to do with ethics, the mother was just following all the pseudo-science around which she foods are good for gut health.
Kimchi is good for gut health (that part is not not pseudo-science, but it’s just good food, not a magic cure)
Fish sauce is also fermented therefore arguably good for gut health, but regardless good Kinchela will contain fish sauce, so if the goal of your diet is just “eat all the fermented food that’s good for your gut”, it’s going to end up being lacto-pescatarian.
Why the kid couldn’t eat dairy must be due to a second pseudo-science belief. Yoghurt is good for gut health so the mum must have had some other reason, something she read on Facebook like “cow hormones in the milk are bad for your human hormone levels” could explain cutting out the fairy without being ethically vegan.
That’s a diet that’s avoiding nightshades not a vegan diet. Some people think nightshades can trigger inflammation or autoimmune diseases but there really isn’t any evidence about it. Some people with irritable bowel disease fine nightshades trigger flare ups but that’s about all I’ve heard of.
Another one to add to the list, Mast Cell Activation Disorders can have a huge variety of triggers, so much like IBS, individuals and may notice a connection between nightshades and their mast cell flare ups.
One of the main treatments for MCAS is simply an elimination diet to identify riggers followed by avoiding triggers for the rest of your life.
There are some MCAS patients who have to be entirely prescription formula fed because they have so many obscure dietary triggers.
Unlike IBS which can be debilitating, but rarely life threatening, MCAS causes anaphylaxis, so it can appear like a real allergic reaction to food, and it functionally is, it’s just not a true IgG or IgE allergy to a specific protein chain.
Man, some things other people probably just couldn’t understand. Like I’m imagining a friend coming up to you and asking if you wanted to come over for dinner and being like, “were having your favorite, spaghetti again.” With your mom right there. Then you taking hell for it and your friend never knowing what they did wrong.
I had a friend who’s fridge was always packed with awesome asain food. We would be there and he would be like ah, man, we got nothing to eat. I’m like, what about all this? He, was like nah let’s have frozen burritos or some shit. I miss that kid so much.
Sounds like your parents, and mother in particular suffered from (and still do?) mental illnesses, no? I mean, to me it sounds like a situation that should have been picked up on by adults, teachers, etc, that would see you, see what you looked like, how you behaved, what you were eating… That’s not normal, period. I’m sorry for you having to go through all that. I thought I had it bad, but at least I had a nice home to come to
They’re not wrong though
Hmm, does it count if the animal (human, in this case) could be omnivorous, but chooses not to be for whatever reason?
Herbivores can be carnivorous. I’ve seen plenty of videos of horses and cows cromching on baby chickens.
I think you don’t understand the definition then. When herbivores happen to eat some animals, like when cows eat baby chickens, it doesn’t make them carnivores just for doing so. They’re still herbivores
eet meet
And carnivores can be herbivorous. Dogs can be vegetarian no problem, and a while back humans solved the synthetic taurine problem for cats. Turns out all animals are omnivores. Herbivores and carnivores are fake.
synthetic taurine problem for cats.
For mercy’s sake, don’t start this again please.
Drag is simply stating scientific fact. Drag doesn’t care what science deniers have to say to drag. It’s not drag’s fault if facts are controversial.
Please stop talking like that.
EW.
What about the humble amoeba
That’s how I see it. I’m a vegetarian omnivore, if my life depended on it I would eat meat.
Anybody would do that?
Yes, I’m saying humans are omnivores and vegetarianism is just a choice.
I like to think of the distinction in a de jure vs de facto way.
If all the evidence we have of a species is them consuming autotrophs, then we do mental gymnastics and induce that they are 100% herbivores.
Of course this also leaves room for an herbivore’s potential to consume heterotrophs, in which case our knowledge would have to update and reflect reality. Maybe 99% herbivore, 1% carnivore.
And at that point, we may still do mental gymnastics and call species herbivores because that is their normal behavior, where their abnormal behavior is shown due to abiotic or biotic factors, perhaps from loss of habitat or removal/introduction of species in the food web, etc.
Edit: for humans, I’d say we can classify different humans differently because of the times we live in (it’s so easy to be a vegan nowadays) and our natural, higher moral concepts and empathy.
When I left my old workplace my colleagues organized a good-bye meal together. Standard office job, with regular guys. We had a great relationship and they knew I was vegetarian for 5+ years at that point and never had any issue with it.
So they asked which restaurant I would like to go and I was stupid enough to let them choose.
We ended up in a specialized Brazilian meat restaurant, where the servers go around with absurdly large pieces of grilled/fryed meats and would carve a piece to the guests. If you are a meat lover you can have easily 10-15 types of meats in a couple of hours.
Those assholes had a huge grin on their faces all evening, as I could only eat the sides from the buffet and had to refuse all meals from the servers about 12 time that evening. It was a truly memorable night, we even got drunk and laughed our asses off on our way home.
So yeah, not just kids can be assholes. We are still in contact till this day.
That’s pretty fucked up. I love Texas de Brazil but I wouldn’t bring a vegetarian friend there to watch me hurt myself on all you can eat meat.
While celebrating them, no less
Yeah, I don’t like to think that far into it because it fucking hurts my heart. I love meat. But I’ve got family and friends that are vegan and vegetarian of different stripes. I will invite them to my cookouts and have a whole ass kettle grill that has never had an animal product cooked on it. That’s just for regular summer shit, not even celebrating them.
Jokes should punch up if they’re going to punch someone. Hitting a vegetarian is fucked up. They ain’t done shit to nobody.
Honestly, everyone just being a little gracious is all you really need.
I’m vegan and I have no issues going to a normal bbq place for someone else’s party(though I don’t know what this place would be like). I can eat corn and undressed salad for a meal, I’ll survive. If the party were for me, I’d probably feel like it was passive aggression or a weird test though.
Similarly, there will be non-vegan food when I introduce my husband to my family and celebrate our wedding in my home country with a potluck, because one of my sisters has celiac’s and the other IBS, which restricts her fiber intake. I would have been totally cool with exclusively mashed potatoes (skin off) for dinner and sorbet for dessert, but I don’t think many others would be, and there’s not much else that works for all of us.
Sure, I could tell them not to bring non-vegan food, but that’s not very gracious, and I want people to be comfortable. They’d probably agree and either eat ahead of time or leave earlier and eat on the way home, so it’s not like there’s a practical difference in meat consumption, and it’s a great way to make people feel less welcome.
To be fair the place had a great buffet with a large selection of sides and great cocktails, I ended up eating mac and cheese, curly fries and some salad. Even tried some grilled seasoned pineapple so it was at least memorable.
This place was called Nabrasa.
That’s 15-20 different types of meat not in a few hours,ore like in 30 minutes. They’re awesome restaurants if you’re not a vegetarian, your coworkers are dicks.
I hated school before, but getting trash thrown at me and I was the one called to the office to stop what I was doing.
I went to a private elementary school where I had the same teacher for 1st through 6th grade. Not only did the kids bully me, so did he. And he encouraged the other kids to do it, even my friends. I’m relatively certain, looking back on it, that it was in part because I’m Jewish.
He also once did something that would 100% have put him on a sex offender list today. Once I started crying because of how they were treating me and he put me on his lap and kissed me on the cheek and started calling me a little baby. But it was the 80s, so apparently that was okay.
I discovered he had an email address a while back and I sent him an email telling him that he fucked up my childhood and that he, as a professed Christian, now knows that he will go to his grave unforgiven because there is no possible way he could do enough to earn my forgiveness.
He replied, I deleted it without reading it. Fuck him.
The bigoted piece of shit also was in the Peace Corps in the Cameroon and because of that, thought it was totally appropriate to dress in the traditional clothing of Cameroonian people every Halloween. Unsurprisingly, the two Jewish kids and the two black kids in school were treated the worst by him. One of the two black kids was a girl who very definitely had dyslexia. Wow did he humiliate her over it constantly.
The funny thing is that he basically terrified me into not explaining what he was doing to my parents explicitly enough. They saw weird signs, but also always told me that I’d be treated worse in public school, which was proven untrue when I went to middle school, because as shitty as middle school kids are to each other, at least the teachers generally didn’t take the side of the bullies and encourage them to bully harder. They only knew when my mom ran into one of the people I went to school with in a supermarket who told my mom that she felt so bad for me when we were in that hellhole.
Wow. Im sorry that happened to you.
I had a rough middle years in public school, but the teachers were always supportive, and I cant imagine not having that while students were bullying.
Even more so encouraging it…
Thanks. I’ve mostly overcome it. One of the reasons I emailed that fucker. To let him know I did okay anyway.
A 12 year old drew a recognizable picture of another 12 year old? Doubt it.
You just pick something obvious and over elaborate on it. Big glasses, bright blue hat, etc also kids are mean, so pick a flaw, same idea.
Or write their name on it.
Best with a mean nickname…“vangoghismyboyfriend is a herbi-whore”
Filthy herbi-whores stealing my herbs.
I wish I was compared to a cow. People usually tell me I resemble a jackass.
They’re also herbivores…
With violence, I have seen donkeys throw around coyote corpses like its a toy.
Not like this would be any better in private schools tho…
Well they’re not wrong…
would this text land differently if “public school” were replaced with “school”? 🤔
Neurotypical here, i just find it funny without context. Its just a joke if its not malicious. The thing is, theres a line between funny nicknames and namecalling but sadly school kids often overstep it. Thats why school should teach them that its not okay. For example with my past waterpolo team it was a kind of “friendship language”. My nickname was bird or angrybird but we had all kinds of things like: microwave, hamburger, etc(all in hungarian tho because im from hungary) .
I wish we used Magyar nicknames in our American locker room. I was big delicious but I don’t know what that’d be in Hungarian.
Id say “nagy és finom” or “a nagy finom” are the best translations i can come up with.
They’re out of line, but they’re not wrong.
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well, that’s good to know, i guess.
¡Bueno! 😉
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Yikes.
The fact that 5 kids knew well enough about the OP’s vegan status to use them as an example meant that the person probably never shut up about it.
Or they saw him eating differently at lunch, and asked their parents why.
Makes too much sense, probably the victim’s fault instead /s
If they were classmates this info would be common knowledge after a few meals together.
Or you know he turned down meat offered or was asked why he ate different food?
There’s always a person who can’t just take the joke
Vegans bad, we get it. How dare they to live according to their moral beliefs
Living to their beliefs is not a problem. Them trying to impose their beliefs however… I still remember a guy who described my meal as disgusting and mumbled something about murder.
“impose their beliefs”
It seems like you confuse it with religion. It’s not about beliefs, it’s about whether or not we find certain actions in our society to be morally wrong. Either you can justify your actions morally or you can’t. For example: “Beating women is fine”. Can it be justified morally? No. Can you prove through logic that it’s wrong? Yes, easily, by simply pointing out that trivial reasons like personal pleasure aren’t justification to bring suffering upon other individuals. If you’d, however, insist on beating women, how would you call that?
Nice example of how not to communicate. But what has this to do with what we’re talking about?
I am not confusing anything. Veganism don’t have any rational basis and it is therefore a belief.
No, it’s obviously not. I recommend informing yourself.
Obviously it is. With a lot of zealots as seen in this thread.
Theres just one thing quite obvious in this thread:
You love to state your opinion, even though you spread nonsense by that. And you also like to talk shit about other people when someone presents you facts that you don’t like
Viva la free speech I guess
“No it isn’t”
“Yes it is”
Argument won, great job 👍
It’s funny considering how eating meat and using animal products is normalized in society, that when a vegan states a differing opinion (that also happens to be a fact) it’s automatically them imposing their beliefs on people. I guess it’s a symptom of the omnivore’s cognitive dissonance activating for a moment.
Would it be acceptable for someone calling you a murderer for eating meat, wearing leather shoes or driving petrol car?
Maybe it’s stretching the word meaning a bit but I’d definitely be contributing to animal murdering by eating meat. The same applies if I buy new leather shoes. Driving a petrol car, otoh, the connection to animal killing is not as straightforward, but it’s harmful for the environment and hence harming wild animals as well.
So yes, it’s not polite, but acceptable.
be contributing to animal murdering by eating meat.
🤦♂️ Not a religion imposing their beliefs at all.
Indeed. Can you point any inconsistencies in that sentiment, or prove it false? If not, what’s the problem here?
Unfortunate that you are downvoted to shit. This was my first thought as well. Kinda cements the " vegans can do no wrong" opinion about themselves.
From the Vegan Bullshit Bingo:
#30 How do you spot a vegan?
Haha @hobowillie, that’s hilarious! Mostly by what you also recognize human rights, women’s and all other activists by: They talk about the grievances they have discovered and want to fix. By the way: Often vegans can also be recognized by the fact that they peacefully eat their soy schnitzel at the barbecue until someone, driven by their own bad conscience, has to make a comment about it and is suddenly angry at vegans for some reason after they have calmly and kindly explained their motivations upon request.#54 Vegans think they are better than everyone
While it feels good to know that you have questioned traditions and made your own informed decisions in line with values that reject violence rather than promote it, you should not get on a high horse, because almost all vegans were once not vegan and everyone can take this step. However, completely refusing to address the issue is a difficult stance to take. By the way: Just because a vegan once told you an uncomfortable truth, they were not being mean to you. And even if you didn’t like a vegan once, that doesn’t question the whole point of veganism or justify continuing to exploit animals.How do you spot a vegan?
They will tell you.
Vegans think they are better than everyone
Yup:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarian/comments/6hekj0/my_roommatelandlord_wont_stop_cooking_meat/
Well the “how to spot a vegan” is just a shitty joke. And the first thing you linked doesn’t really seem like their much of a vegan. They’re doing it for health reasons it seems. So they’re just eating a plant based diet. And then you linked two reddit posts… lol. Do you know how much stuff on reddit is fake?
Yup, everything which contradicts your narrative is fake.
