- cross-posted to:
- testing@lemmy.serverfail.party
- cross-posted to:
- testing@lemmy.serverfail.party
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Who will explain the concept of a regular printer to him?
Who will explain the concept of a plotter to you?
You?
Or knives! Or inkjets! There are all kinds of bastards, I used to work with the knife variety (huge Roland thingamabobs) and also sell them.
Thanks, I’ve never dealt with that before. But from what I’ve read, a regular printer would still make more sense for such a task.
Benefits of a plotter in this case:
- easier to align with the existing lines on the paper
- the ink doesn’t look printed (depending on the pen; I would use a blue ball-pen to make text look more authentic)
- there are pressure-marks left on the paper, you wouldn’t have these on regular printers
And as I found out in this thread, you can also adjust the handwriting. That’s cool. But in the picture, the writing looks so artificial that the person could have used a normal printer.
You can plot anything.
I use it mostly to print drawings onto birthday cards.
(btw, I totally agree that OPs results are far from look handwritten; just wanted to stand in for some benefits of plotting in general. If I would try what op does I guess I would try things very differently)
Wait shit I just use one as a printer for bigass drawings. I didn’t realize it used a pen
Most modern “plotters” are just bigass printers. The word used to only mean pen-based vector-drawing machines, but the overlapping use in architechture and engineering meant that as cheap inkjets supplanted the pen plotters they co-opted the name.
Teachers are starting to enforce hand written assignments to stop the use of chatGPT
Could one not just copy a chat got essay by hand?
Can’t jack off, play league, and write your homework with just two hands
This is why the first popular body mod will be more hands (also you can then designate hands for clean and “dirty” work)
As soon as we get interchangeable genitals no one will give a fuck about the gender wars anymore haha. Like come on, can’t tell me you wouldn’t try a vagina on, even the most bigoted bastards must think about it.
For sure. I just suddenly got too many thoughts on this…
Some people might take the “my hand is my gf” meme too far
There will be people with both genitals, no genitals, entirely new types of genitals (I thought of one, a penis which acts like a sleeve vagina)
If we can remove the need for excretion or release it as particulates from our feet, some might replace their butthole with a vagina
(My mind really decided to overthink this)
That would actually help to learn the subject
Sounds like a disability act lawsuit waiting to happen tbh. Some of us have very poor fine motor skills or worse and would be severely disadvantaged by having to do even short hand written assignments…
If someone actually had a disability, they wouldn’t have to do it or would be given other accommodations. That’s basically how it was for thousands of years before people had word processors.
Lemmy accidentally deleted my comment right before I was going to post it, I had to rewrite it.
I’ve fought for years to get accommodations that I was legally obligated to, (504 Plan) fought with a school, (they were actively refusing to give accommodations, illegally) for 3 years, before giving up and switching schools.
The next couple of schools I tried were not well equipped to provide accommodations, albeit not malicious, (in one case not telling anyone until two months in)
Even after I finally got what I was legally owed, I still had to put up with often writing assignments by hand, (I have fine motor coordination disorder, as the commenter above mentioned), including an entire test. (One of the end of year ones for my sophomore year)
I also have CAPD, which allowed me to skip taking Spanish class, after two years of fighting for it. (I failed the first year of Spanish for obvious reasons, I had to retake it the next year.) (This was at the first school, I don’t know why I was able to get this accommodation but not the others, I was in middle school)
Yeah, except many schools don’t have the tools to properly do such accommodation, meaning that the students with disabilities are inevitably left behind.
Especially the ones like me with hard to detect disabilities such as ADHD who would have to fight tooth and nail to get their disability acknowledged in the first place and then to convince them of the fact that ADHD, while being mainly mental, DOES significantly impair fine motor skills used for hand writing.
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Germany traditionally is quite shocking in their practice of segregating children with disabilities into special Förderschulen. Whereas the U.S. has the Individual’s with Disabilities Education Act since the 1970s, Germany was basically forced into integration recently after the country signed the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2009. And even then, they are taking their sweet time to integrate. See e.g. https://www.aktion-mensch.de/inklusion/bildung/hintergrund/zahlen-daten-und-fakten/inklusionsquoten-in-deutschland as how currently, slightly less than half of German students with disabilities go to a regular school (the Inklusionsanteil).
They would almost certainly make accommodations. I saw many such examples throughout my years of schooling.
What the actual …
Fun fact, fine motor skills are taught differently in different countries. In some countries, children spend a considerable time improving their writing skills and even the less gifted reach a reasonable level. Of course, I am not talking about children with central nervous system or physical disabilities.
Also, spending so much time on fine motor skills reduces their ability to work in other, somewhat more relevant skills.
I’m not talking about students who haven’t done their cursive exercises, I’m talking about students with disabilities making hand writing inherently much more difficult than for other students, especially the ones who’d have to fight tooth and nail to prove it because their handicap is generally thought to be “only mental” in spite of being more complex, like ADHD.
They want you to hand copy what ChatGPT outputs and turn it in? That’s a terrible response to AI. If they want to hold you accountable, they should have you write it right there in front of them.
It’s a deterrent, not an end all be all solution to end cheating.
Ok, so hand copy all your assignments from ChatGPT all semester and I, the instructor, will count them as 50 percent of your final grade. The other 50 percent is based on a hand-written final essay written in class. How do you think you will do?
I am old so all of my formal university education was completed decades ago, but people cheated back then too and in my experience it’s usually way more effort than it’s worth as opposed to just doing the work and coming out with the skills you’ll need to be successful at the next level.
That’s my dreary little bit of moralizing for the day.
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Now you’re sounding like Elon Musk demanding that people who work better from home return to Tesla offices…
Only worse, since you also want to add an extra anxiety-inducing and impractical layer of in-person surveillance 🤦
This has nothing to do with work from home policies. I also don’t know how to approach the concept that completing schoolwork in school is “in person surveillance” and not just “schoolwork”
It’s like (lack of) work from home politicies in that it’s forcing people to do things a specific way in a specific place even though it’s much less convenient AND much less efficient.
It’s in person surveillance because “right in front of” implies physical proximity where the teacher is watching, making some students unnecessarily anxious.
I get that you probably grew up in a more primitive time where such methods were the norm, but things change as society progresses and your industrial age solution to an information age challenge is likely to cause a lot more harm than good, if it even does good at all.
Ok, so if you think students demonstrating their knowledge in class is “primitive,” can you describe how you think school should work?
I think students ONLY demonstrating their knowledge in class and being forced to do work that would be better accomplished elsewhere is primitive, yes.
I think school should take advantage of modern technology such as computers and the internet without letting doing the pseudo-plagiarism of having GPT do everything. Enforcement of the latter doesn’t necessitate going back to how things were done in the 80s and earlier.
He thinks AI should do all the thinking for him and he should be able to take all of the credit, so he doesn’t have to learn anything. Ignorance is something to strive for to these people because ignorance = less work.
You sound like a lazy spoiled brat who just wants to get out of doing homework and play video games all day.
Homework requiring writing some shit down from Wikipedia is useless homework anyways - and here this seems to be the case.
They’re trying to make sure you actually read the material. 🤦
But why would you? You should be able to use any sources you want to learn whenever you want, just be prepared for the exam. I wrote hundreds useless homeworks like this in middle school and I remember nothing from most of them.
Never said anything of the sort. That’s your own uncreative view of the world refusing to see any alternative to how things were done back when they didn’t have the technology we have today.
Sure, but you can clearly see from the result that it’s not handwritten. The person could have used a normal printer.
This video says it’s possible to make it look like a human wrote it.
If you’re wondering if this is more work than writing the actual essay, we don’t talk about that here.
That’s really cool
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It’s a deterrent, not an end all be all solution to end cheating.
Theoretically it could be 3D printer but used like a plotter here.
I think, the handwritten font, that is used by the plotter, does not support german umlauts. But if you create your own handwriting font, this might be a fun idea to try to get away with.
“Stuff made here” has a video where he fools around with that idea. Worth checking out imo
I would assume, you have a standard text. That you handwrite. Then scan, so that the 3d printer can write in your handwriting!
All that for nobody to be able to read my crappy handwriting ;)
Its much more difficult than that to be actually believable. As u/Luftruessel said, theres a great video from “Stuff Made Here” where he goes deep inside the topic and tries to fool a graphologist.
Yeah you’d need a dozen or so examples of each character for randomness and the professor who can see the shenanigans would just ask for a paper in cursive.
But the letter shapes change slightly depending on what letters are before and after.
You don’t just scan individual letters, you also scan a bunch of different combos of letters next to each other, as needed. For example, you’re gonna want specific scans for things like “ea”,“ee”, “eu”.
Getting several examples of every letter combination gets very hard very fast. Just lowercase, to get 5 examples of the letters before and after each letter is nearly 100k examples. You’d probably be better off doing some machine leaning shenanigans to simplify the process from training data.
I didn’t say every letter combination. I said the ones you need. Letter combos that do not connect to each other aren’t needed. Still though, you’re right that machine learning is needed… the good news is it’s already been done before, and the code is open source. StuffMadeHere on youtube already built a fully functional prototype that impressed if maybe didn’t fool forgery experts. https://youtu.be/cQO2XTP7QDw
Please watch the video
As part of the copy chain, you need to feed the ChatGPT output into a handwriting neural network you trained in your own handwriting, then have the 3D printer draw it.
Why is it writing German words with “ae” instead of the umlaut (ä)? That makes sense, if you’re typing on a keyboard, but ChatGPT should be capable of outputting umlauts and it shouldn’t be difficult either, to make that 3D printer place two dots above an “a”…
Maybe he is swiss, they have some weird quirks. Like they don’t do the ß either I believe. Maybe they don’t use Umlaute. I’d ask them, but I can’t understand them when they talk. That is not even a joke.
We dont use ae as ä. We also use Umlauts :)
The only orthographic difference is not using ß.
There are more differences but they are in the vocabulary. The Swiss use a lot of French words. Velo instead of Fahrrad, Trottoir instead of Bürgersteig, Cheminée instead of Kamin, Porte-Monnaie instead of Brieftasche, Camion instead of Lastkraftwagen, and so on.
They also differ by region a lot. In Zurich you’ll see fewer french words and more anglicisms.
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It also ignored the “ü” in “für” completely and wrote “fr” instead. This is just stupid. Like fr?
The saddest part of this is you probably learned more setting this up than if you had done the homework. You learned how to use ai text, a 3d printer, set it all up, and produce a viable result.
In my view, this is not sad. It’s just that education needs to incorporate parts of these new technologies into it. Technology is the future if education still wants you to write with a pen on paper then they are being outdated pretty fast.
Some of them are. My former high school/trade school redesigned their library from half books half computers to one third books one third comouters one third 3D printing, laser etching and poster printing.
There are some programs that focus on those things but it’s free for any student there to use no matter the trade they go there for. I wish I had it when I was there!
Be me in high school. We’re in meth class learning about random numbers and probabilities. The teacher says “in your calculator, random number is likely written rand()”. So I go into the Casio programmable calculator and start coding instead of listening to the lesson. Teacher noticed I’m not looking and calls me out. Threaten a detention and asks what I have been doing. “I made a gambling game” — teacher comes over to see. I had made a rice rolling game. You’d start with $100 and bet on rolls ( you could chose 1 or 2 die or coin toss). Bell rings and all my friends come lining up for me to transfer the program to their calculators with the transfer cable (a micro TRRS cable).
Little did they know there is a “virus” that I’d you land on snake eyes, the program launches an infinite loop, printing pages and page of space characters and the calculator is really slow at typing and print commands can’t be interrupted other than resetting the calculator and loosing all your programs.
Teachers must be stupid af to believe its hand writen, but ill pretend they are. Just drop some blood and sweat on first page so they feel uncofortable to ask anything
This one probably. I do remember this video of someone actually making one that a professional forgery expert flat out said was convincing enough that he would have believed it was handwriting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQO2XTP7QDw
Y’all silly. They already have machines that write stuff out for you with pens and stuff. And markers, too.
I have one! A Cricut. But there are more kinds out there.
I was thinking about that, but the lines, kerning, and consistency would give it away. Unless you have some app that’ll fuck with all that a bit.
Stuff Made Here is an absolute treasure
This was the exact video I was hoping it would be.
We need piped to youtube link bot now
It probably wouldn’t be too difficult to have an ai analyze someone’s handwriting pattern, then replicate it and feed that into a 3d printer or cnc.
So, first you need to learn how to set up the printer, then fetch the bot produced text, review (hopefully), load it to the printer, run a test to determine it every part is working, run the “print”, review it…
I’d risk doing it yourself would be quicker
The first time maybe
How busy is your life that you can’t be bothered to actually study to learn?
If they know “how to set up the printer, then fetch the bot produced text, review (hopefully), load it to the printer, run a test to determine it every part is working, run the “print”, review it…”
Then I’d say they are more prepared for the future they’re inheriting than their peers that have to study and learn how to rig this bad boy up.
But anyway it’s just a gag so…
You aren’t wrong, in part at least, but I guarantee you that the person who doesn’t have to set this thing up because they can quickly process information and produce compelling content on their own, without the aid of an LLM, will have a cognitive and competitive advantage in life. This may not be obvious when you are young and still in school.
This is an argument that I do not agree with, but I 100% can respect.
I would assert that the LLMs are irrelevant here, the kid has an aptitude for engineering with or without LLMs. He clearly is capable of processing information and producing compelling content on his own.
Likewise, his peers may have their own faculties that will grant them an advantage in life. But I don’t think failing to leverage existing technologies will do them any good. Using textbooks, the internet, and LLMs are various technologies that can be used effectively or detrimentally.
Other students may succeed, not due to their unwillingness to adopt LLMs, but in spite of it.
It seems you’re hyper focused on an overly literal interpretation of a meme. Of course blindly outputting chatgpt’s response is an ineffective strategy and doing the student a disservice. So is copying a textbook or plagiarizing from the Internet.
But rigging this bad boy up? That’s innovative, and more importantly, makes a funny image.
They’re not, really. 3D printing simply hasn’t taken off as promised and society is collapsing all around us anyway.
Plus he is making himself wholly dependent on corporate proprietary software to express thoughts for him, meaning now he cannot speak for himself or articulate his own ideas, leaving him vulnerable to whatever tech giants want.
What happens when Chat GPT starts censoring answers, or making shit up and the teacher catches him? Or he has to use the skills he is supposed to be learning on the fly (which happens all too often, especially critical thinking skills) without access to his workshop? Is he going to carry a 3D printer wherever he goes?
He is really selling himself short by using the few skills he has to get around learning anything else useful. That’s the kind of mindset that is going to cause civilization to collapse, prevent progress, allow fascists to take advantage of the fact that he is uneducated to brainwash him, and endanger himself and those he loves.
Let’s look at your arguments:
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3d printing hasn’t taken off: I think you underestimate just how important rapid prototyping and additive manufacturing has been in industry. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t make it unimportant. Here you can see some aircraft brackets that were 3d printed. https://www.metal-am.com/amgta-shows-additive-manufacturings-role-in-lightweighting-aircraft-engine-bracket/
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Corporate proprietary software. Neither cad nor LLMs are strictly corporate proprietary software. And I hate to break it to you but corporate proprietary software is not inherently evil and is commonly required in academic and professional environments. https://openscad.org/ https://medium.datadriveninvestor.com/list-of-open-source-large-language-models-llms-4eac551bda2e
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He cannot speak for himself… It’s better to parrot correct ideas than to articulate incorrect ones. Joking aside I don’t see where you got this idea from, it seems he has plenty of creativity and aptitude for independent thought.
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What happens when chatgpt starts censoring answers. Most llms are already censored and by their architecture they are specifically designed to make shit up. So any reasonable implementation would review and edit the output, a point you yourself already caught on to so again I fail to see your point here.
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Is he going to carry a 3d printer? I remember hearing the same thing about calculators.
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Your doom and gloom conclusion. LLMs are a tool that can be leveraged effectively or can be used to fuck yourself over quite quickly. However your ludditical (ludditicarian, luddilicious, luddite-loving, what’s the right word here?) prevent progress, allow fascists to take advantage of the fact that you are uneducated and endanger our society and those you love.
And don’t criticize What you can’t understand. Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command. Your old road is rapidly agin’ Please get out of the new one If you can’t lend your hand. For the times they are a-changin’
Let’s not.
Let’s watch you stop enabling other Americans to avoid being educated and watch you uplift our country instead of allowing it to collapse.
Let’s watch you encourage young people to learn and help them do something meaningful instead of pushing people to become wholly dependent on corporate proprietary software that will lie, censor, send your deepest darkest secrets into the sweaty hands of marketing firms and tech giants, (and the open source garbage isn’t better at all, because it can be updated to do the same without the knowledge you are rejecting), and enfeeble you completely.
Let’s watch you actually think about and debate the points without copying and pasting answers you just printed out from Chat GPT.
Let’s watch you do literally anything other than convince me more and more to ban the use of such tech when I get my own organizations going, and fire anyone who is caught using it. And the other industrious millennials and zoomers who will whip past you while you sit around being spoonfed scraps.
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command Your old road is rapidly agin’ Please get out of the new one If you can’t lend your hand For the times they are a-changin’
And Act 2 of the motherfucking show: hiding behind aggressive personal attacks and accusations, and appealing to stereotypes about generational divided to legitimize BLATANTLY unethical and immoral behavior.
Learning and life is for humans, not for AI to help people pretend to learn just to pass a class. You have to learn to engage with life on this planet no matter how technologically advanced we become, and generative AI is not a step forward or progress, it is backward. It is regression. It is copyright infringement on a massive scale, it is plagiarism, it is theft, neatly hidden behind a digital wall.
And you are a morally bankrupt thief and scammer for supporting it.
How about educators evolve their tests instead of acting like it is the 1950’s still?
Everybody has a calculator everywhere at all times, head calculations just aren’t as useful anymore.
Instead of writing pages on topics by hand like some medieval peasant, how about teaching some critical reading of multiple sources through the use of AI synopsis?
Skills evolve over time. Writing cursive was once an extremely important skill. Now everything is digital and it became useless.
So if a task can be completed by copy pasting ChatGPT results, it isn’t an effective teaching tool anymore.
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The chat GPT interface is literally the simplest part of the whole solution. It requires wiring custom GCODE compiler from vector text and of course converting text to vector graphics. I bet this guy easily could learn anything he wanted to use and is one of the creative guys this society actually runs on in the long term.
And not a single ounce of that is going to help him in any respect other than getting some hits on a video, unless he finds very niche specialty work using 3D printers which in the U.S. simply does not exist.
He still needs the understanding he can only obtain by actually learning material himself to be able to do anything actually useful.
Niche? Are you a lunatic? The 3D printing industry is one of the fastest growing fields in the world. 3D printing is getting cheaper and cheaper compared to eg. CNC machining. The industry is a very important one, because it allows you to create accurate parts much more quickly that to drill a block of metal. And all this not even mentioning that this required mostly general computer science skill, I hope you won’t call the computer science field niche?
CNC also runs on GCODE
You think CNC machines aren’t being used, like literally everywhere?
Nice thing about AI is, there’s more than just ChatGPT out there. And many actually are open and you can run them at home if you want.
Our government ruined everything by not regulating those scam algorithms when they had a chance. 🤦
?XD
Entirely too smart of a take for this thread. All OOP is doing is ensuring he’s replaceable with AI
spend an hour writing or 10 hours failing to automate it
turning the 3 hour job into a 3 month one
Sounds like a programmer to me!
yeah but is it as fun?
Hear me out:
Run a script remotely when you’re teacher is giving your homework!
I’ll pass.
Pyramiden sind [?]auwerken
in Aegypten & Nordafrika.
Grabstaetten fr Pharaonen & Familien
Bekannteste Cheo…Pyramids are [?] architectural works
in Egypt & North Africa.
Tombs for Pharaohs and [their] families.
The most famous Cheo…The author replaced the missing Ä/ä in the stroke font with Ae/ae, which is only used in German in URLs, usernames and other places that don’t allow diacritics. However, the ü in für is still missing. This could only pass as handwritten notes at a glance even if the font replicates one’s handwriting perfectly. However, this is unlikely to be a real assignment for anyone over 12 years old (which I assume the author is because of the effort of repurposing a 3D printer and syncing up the lines) given that the answer is basically a Wikipedia page summary.
If I were a teacher and saw that every duplicate handwritten letter looked very similar to the last few, I’d definitely either assume you have some form of OCD (or something of similar nature) or are using an “AI” chatbot and some writing tool to write for you and would probably wanna see you at some point to ask about it.
Only acception might be if a student uses one of those writing tools because of accessibility issues when it comes to writing.
I mean, you could install a character pack that has variation and then there is nothing they can do about it.
I think a few years back I’ve seen articles about AI that can mimic your handwriting, including errors.
Edit: Could be this
The text turned out by the algorithm created by Tom Haines and his fellow UCL researchers is authentic enough that human judges are unable to tell the difference.
Also, 2016 was 7 years ago? Damn.
congratulations to them they just helped enable some future serial murderer to forge documents
This is a reaaaaly specific thing to think about, you okay?
not really if you watch forensic files or any of the 100s of other documentary shows on youtube/Netflix/etc
It’s actually a lot harder than you think. Stuff I Made here tried it. Fun little video.
Came here to link this. Your doing good work.
“As an AI language model, …”
Honestly, if teachers are going to continue assigning stupid homework that can be completed by chatgpt then they have no excuse.
Homework is so pointless anyway. If a student needs to revise work to properly learn it. They should be trusted to just study independently or when needed be helped by the teacher.
Depends on the age, in college my homework was like a check mark for 10% of my grade. Ignore it at your peril. In middle school you gotta see they are actually doing some work before you flunk them.
I can’t remember the last time I had mandatory college HW, it was class work then “if you wanna do this to help you can then we can go over next class” work, it wasn’t graded and only suited yourself to learn
STEM has a lot of homework. They basically make it hard as fuck and encourage people to collaborate on it. They check to make sure what you wrote vaguely resembles homework and put a check mark on it.
Depends what kind of homework. A huge portion of school is just there to learn how to learn. Learn how to teach yourself something. Getting the fundamental basics of knowledge and how to tackle subjects that are strange, foreign, boring.
Some things you’ll have to learn by yourself. Students between 5 - 14 are just not there to learn vocabulary, basic maths, etc. on their own. It gives every student the chance to do it at their own pace, find their own way how to learn and understand it best, using the tools they learned during class.
That the execution of this theory is not the best (especially in certain countries) is obvious, however, I think without homework I would have no tools nowadays to get into a new, complicated topic without being tutored/ guided all the way through.
Fun fact: it was invented by Roberto Nevilis, who did it to punish students who didn’t understand much of the content/did not want to understand much of the content. However I suppose he didn’t expect teachers to use this globally.
I do agree with your points above and who knows, maybe chatgpt will finally force schools to be reinvented and remade for the next generation to be more engaging.
I wrote my own software and used commercial plotter (from 90s - it is way faster than 3d printer) in order to achieve result that can make teacher believe that it was written. In my language it is required for letters to be connected when handwritten (my program does it), there are different variations for each letter that are stretched and rotated during generation (I used pen tablet in order to input them)
It was written mostly when I was in 10-11th grade (that’s why the code is spaghetti) and I indeed wasted much more time than I would if I did my homework like a normal person
Btw here is repo: https://github.com/Snow4DV/3DWriter
I love how we will work for hours to invent something that will save us minutes of work.
Sehen meine müden Augen etwa Deutsch??
This really reminds me of that book “The Homework Machine”
Bravo, that assignment gets an A+ with demonstrating why scripts are made
