- 2002 - W Bush
- 2018 - Trump
- 2019 - Trump
In contrast:
- 2024 - Biden
But sure, keep telling us how Democratic administrations not acting like right-wing criminal shitstain Republicans is “hypocritical”, but deliberately disregarding the vast difference in foreign policy between the two parties so you can screech “America bad!” even when it does the right thing somehow isn’t.
Well, not in Latin America. US political parties have some weird multi-faced value system that cares about stuff like the coordinates a victim was born.
But the OP is also bullshit for trying to criticize the country for trying to do something right for once. Even more because staging coups against a dictatorship does not have a clear moral value.
This one below is also missing Obama-era orchestrated election meddling in Honduras, and Haiti.
but deliberately disregarding the vast difference in foreign policy
You forgot Obama with Egypt, Libya, Ukraine, and the extra-judicial assassination of American Citizens.
i’ll provide more examples from obama, clinton, and biden once i see a worthwhile response.
This is the right answer. And this time around Venezuelans are mad at Merudo and not America because it’s Merudo that interfered with their democratic process, not America. Hard line republican policies always fail
Biden literally orchestrated a coup a couple of days ago 🤦🏾♂️
Huh? Where was this?
He’s referring to Harris being the Democratic nominee. Hopefully it’s a joke.
Oh okay.
I was referring to Biden financing far right militias that attempted a coup in Venezuela as soon as Maduro won the election
Funny. Haven’t heard that one.
Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing. -Brandon Sanderson
Just because someone did something horrible in the past it does not mean we cannot advocate for something good now.
People can change, bit by bit, moment by moment. Sometimes it might even be for the better.
The US isn’t going to change. This is how they are. They meddle with the world and have been doing so throughout their history.
The US isn’t a person though. It is a system that relies on imperialist domination in order to survive. Do you have evidence that the system has fundamentally changed away from that? Because that would be some pretty miraculous evidence.
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Except that history consistently shows that the fascist burgerland regime is always on the wrong side of history.
Besides maybe the second world war.
US actually supported the nazis initially, and many US companies continued to work with them well into the war. Famously, IBM played a pivotal role in making the holocaust possible. Ford also eagerly collaborated with the nazis, which greatly enhanced its business prospects and at the same time helped Hitler prepare for war.
USA hypocrisy is theatrics to get to make rules and order everyone around with a sanctimonious attitude.
This is how I feel watching young American be mad at Israel for doing things that the Americans did to my people and never even apologized for
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Just mods complying with instance rules.
I don’t see how saying “What’s with all the anti Maduro sentiments getting censored” would violate instance rules.
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Idk if hypocrisy is intentionally misspelled but if it is that’s pretty clever
Terrorist nations gonna terrorist. The list of US-couped governments is pretty long.
And you’re all welcome, by the way.
Please name three.
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Do you want to share those “eyebrow raising” numbers?
Best summary I can find stating the elections were “rigged” is the report from the Carter center which uses almost entirely qualitative data or hearsay arguments to support the claim and conveniently forgets to mention any of the surrounding context around US interventionism.
In contrast the argument for fair and open elections is well summarized in the report from the NLG delegation’s report which does a good job of providing quantitative data as well as useful context to support the conclusion it was fair.
Can you provide those quantitave arguments from these “third party left-wing governments”? Because I am having a hard time finding any of them…
Like I said, Lula, despite downplaying the relevance of the discrepancies, has encouraged the sharing of the full count. Along with Mexico and Colombia they’ve been pushing for the full count to be released while criticising the US for jumping to recognize the opposition as winners. Spain’s government, a coalition of social democrats, communists and populist leftists, has done pretty much the same thing. That seems to be the trend on left-leaning international governments at the moment.
The most popular quantitative argument, beyond the huge discrepancy with the exit polls, is that the first results offered with 80% count show oddly round numbers with a single decimal each that match dividing the count of the two larger parties to the reported results and then rounding up the vote count to the closest integer. The back of the napkin math gives you a low p-value, with a 1 in 100 million chance of the numbers showing up as round as they are. This by itself doesn’t mean the result is false, but paired with the fact that the full count hasn’t been released, that the results used to call it were only at 80% of the full count --unusually low for how close the whole thing is, although they have produced more complete results by now-- and that Maduro wins with a narrow majority, rather than a plurality that would add legitimacy questions I do think it’s reasonable to ask for the full tally. This is Spanish nonpartisan (but left-leaning) organization maldita.es saying about as much, since US-based orgs seem to be fudnamentally disqualified around these parts. The opposition has also produced an alternate set of tallies, although nobody has verified those, to my knowledge.
So yeah, the original 80% count results look weird to a reasonable observer, quantitatively and qualitatively. As time goes on, the lack of a recount or a full set of official count documents makes the possibility of reviewing the tally or recounting less productive, as it’s more likely for positions to entrench and for whatever is produced to not be given credence. Venezuela really doesn’t need any help for this to be a shitshow now, regardless of what happens or what the real count is.
Again, I’m not from Venezuela and I don’t have a horse in this race, but as a left-leaning person in a place where the right frequently uses Maduro’s crap as a cudgel, I am not willing to endorse that guy on principle.
Oh, and I don’t see much in the way of quantitative analysis on that NLG report. If anything I’m surprised by how partisan it reads, although I’m not familiar with their record for independence. In any case, I’m with Lula, AMLO, Sánchez and the rest on this, they should have released the count documentation from their supposedly fully automated system immediately.
Anyway, I’m stepping off. This place is full of propaganda on an issue that I take no pleasure in discussing. This sucks on a fundamental level, and I have no intention of playing devil’s advocate on this issue, just like I don’t have any intention of acting as a Maduro surrogate. I’m not here to circlejerk or to make myself more bummed out by this than I already am.
Yeah, ok, by all the reports from the actual observers on the ground the election was, in fact not rigged. Go peddle your burgerland propaganda elsewhere.
interesting names on those organizations the observers are from. https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/2024/venezuela-073024.html
unironically links to a literal propaganda outlet while throwing shade on the observers 🤡
wait. you think the carter center is a propaganda outlet??? can you name a more internationally recognized election obaserver organization?
wait, you don’t understand that the carter center is a propaganda outlet? 😂
It certainly is not. its not like election monitoring is the only thing they do. most people know them for the habitats for humanity work they do.
Sure, the same way the only thing NED does is spread “democracy” around the world.
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The world would be much better off without the USA.
As an empire, yes. That doesn’t mean we want American people to suffer (I say this as a European who also thinks European imperialist countries should suffer the same fate)
I agree with you, but it’s also true that imperialism is way deeper rooted in the American forma mentis than it is in most European.
True
