The legal situation is more complex and nuanced than the headline implies, so the article is worth reading. This adds another ruling to the confusing case history regarding forced biometric unlocking.

  • gomp@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    Makes perfect sense to me (not a lawyer, not a US person)… what doesn’t make sense is how many people still think biometric is high security (maybe because of how cool they make it look in the movies?)

    • Korne127@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Idk… you being forced to use your body against your will to reveal secret and private things sounds pretty awful to me

      • PirateJesus@lemmy.today
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        10 months ago

        Idk… you being forced to use your body against your will to reveal secret and private things sounds pretty awful to me

        Hopefully it gets overturned and your compulsion to stick your finger on the devices requires a warrant.

        I’m in partial agreement with @gomp@lemmy.ml, they should be allowed to take your fingerprint and then apply that fingerprint to a device. Or get a warrant to make you stick you finger on the device. Recording your fingerprint is just collecting data to investigate a crime, it generates a record. Sticking your finger on a device is making you participate in the investigation, and generates no investigative record other than “device did/didn’t unlock”.

      • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        If the popo suspect you killed your wife and find you sitting on top of a chest freezer refusing to come off, should they be allowed to force you?

          • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            And what if it’s the trunk of his car?

            Which better relates to the case in the OP, as the lack of a search warrant was never the question here:

            Payne conceded that “the use of biometrics to open an electronic device is akin to providing a physical key to a safe” but argued it is still a testimonial act because it “simultaneously confirm[s] ownership and authentication of its contents,” the court said. “However, Payne was never compelled to acknowledge the existence of any incriminating information. He merely had to provide access to a source of potential information.”

    • RealFknNito@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Biometric is high security against thieves and nosy girlfriends, not kidnappers or cops apparently. You need to be physically present for most of them which means it can’t be done without you knowing. The problem arises when the person who wants access also has access to you.

    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Nobody cares. It’s easy. Folks aren’t out getting arrested in mass, even in the United States. Unless youre out selling drugs or protesting while breaking shit it has no functional effect on your life in any way.

      • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Ah, yes, if you’ve done nothing wrong argument.

        I still care whether government is being properly restrained in applying it’s power against any individual citizen, because that citizen represents all of us.

        Innocent until proven guilty, and all that

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I don’t care. I’m just saying the why.

          TBH privacy advocates have largely put themselves into the position of the window ME UAC prompt. They are deaf to it and IMO it’s a large part of the privacy community treating everything like an 11 and refusal to look towards a user friendly threat model.

    • astraeus@programming.dev
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      10 months ago

      Yeah, it’s like if you kept a bunch of illegal things in a safe the authorities have the authority to force you to unlock the safe.

      • TaviRider@reddthat.comOP
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        10 months ago

        Authorities with a warrant can drill into a safe to get to its contents. That’s legally distinct from forcing someone to unlock the safe by entering the combination. It takes some mental effort to enter a combination, so it counts as “testimony”, and in the USA people can’t be forced to testify against themselves.

        The parallel in US law is that people can be forced to unlock a phone using biometrics, but they can’t be forced to unlock a phone by entering a passcode. The absurd part here is that the actions have the same effect, but one of them can be compelled and the other cannot.

        • Fester@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          It’ll be interesting to see if it applies to facial recognition. In iOS, at least, you need to look at the phone to unlock it. That’s an intentional action. If you look to the side or close your eyes, it won’t work.

          So if you’re conscious, you can’t easily be forced to unlock the phone with your face and eyes if you’re able to resist. But if you’re unconscious, then maybe they could use your face (assuming your eyes aren’t rolled back into your head because the cops gave you brain damage.)

          • ShortN0te@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            But you can be easily tricked. Even easier than with the fingerprint.

            “Hey, can you look at those pictures?”, shows some printed out pictures with the phone hiding behind and then quickly just dropping the pictures.

        • brygphilomena@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          They can also compel you to provide a key to the safe, should one exist.

          The issue constantly is something you have vs something you know. They also can compel you to provide a document or item from within the safe, if they know that the item exists.

      • ShortN0te@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Depends on the country you life in. And even in the USA it is to my knowledge not correct. They can try to crack it themself but you have not to comply.