This comment section: “Actually I’m pretty sure the bike fell over for reasons unrelated to the stick”

  • mommykink@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    My grevience is a very basic application of social Marxism.

    I’m saying that the “most abusive subgroup of men” aren’t born, they’re made through propaganda and charlatans. That makes them victims, which I have some sympathy for, even if they go on to perpetuate an awful cycle of misogyny. I’m just critical of these kinds of arguments like the OP which place the blame on the perpetuaters instead of the sources.

    • nac82@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Despite this, shame is still a valid application of positive punishment to active participants of an abusive subgroup.

      Go be the carrot to somebody who needs a philosophy 101 course to justify defending actively harmful forms of propoganda from criticism. I’m not your guy, I have my own objectives in this discourse.

      Ultimately, none of this invalidates the observation of an ironic use of a victim complex.

      • mommykink@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        “Valid” in what sense? Of course you’re allowed to shame people who perpetuate terrible actions/thoughts against women. But when that group was literally created by and has grown through pre-existing, socially reinforced thoughts of shame and inadequacy, I’m going to hold you slightly responsible for that problem continuing.

        • nac82@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          I’m going to hold you responsible for defending them from criticism they need to face. You are creating a safe space for abusive ideologies to fester.

          • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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            8 months ago

            I’m going to hold you responsible for defending them from criticism they need to face.

            These men already face the criticism, that is the driver pushing them further to become abusive and self-abusive.

            What you are suggesting is cornering an animal, and then saying “Hey, we should corner it more because it’s acting aggressively.” and then acting surprised when it attacks you.

            We need to offer these men a healthy way out which is culturally appropriate.