Do both, vote for the lesser evil and demand change by protesting. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. You are definitely not going to get change by not voting, all you are doing is allowing the more evil to win and prevent you from protesting ever again.
well it’s don’t just vote for the lesser of two evils…
but i don’t remember anyone saying biden was the only thing needed to stop the arming of israel…
I don’t see how you’re having trouble understanding that anti-genocide rhetoric can also come from the left. I would actually wager that the majority of genuine critiques surrounding the Biden administration’s support of genocide would not be from Republicans, since most of those fascists love the idea of killing natives in the name of forming a white ethnostate.
I doubt there are many Trump supporters who want to eliminate the existence of trans/minorities while also saying “FREE PALESTINE” on random lemmy posts lmfao.
I guess you could take the position that they’re not genuine critiques, that every critique of Biden is a false flag Trump supporter or direct KGB agent from Russia, because who in their right mind would actually give a fuck about a genocide happening to others. They’re not American, so fuck them right?
If that last paragraph resonates with you, then I’d ask you to consider who in this conversation is actually the close-minded bigot. If it doesn’t, then you have to recognize that there are genuine, valid critiques of Biden coming from the left, and it’s hard to stomach the idea of going out and openly supporting a president in favor of furthering Israel’s genocidal campaign.
I think the majority of Trump supporters can barely get on the internet successfully, let alone infiltrate Lemmy so deeply that 99% of the anti-genocidal rhetoric are false flags. You need some actual data to back this claim, and I don’t know if you’ve ever talked to a Republican, but they’re not exactly known for their ability to empathize with other positions, they have serious trouble explaining what a socialist position even is, they genuinely don’t understand it.
If someone online is coherent in their explanation of a leftist position, they’re probably a leftist.
Who benefits from all the lefties dropping out
Potentially Palestine. I’ve explained this countless times to you moderate libs, and I have no idea how you can’t figure this out on your own, it’s not complicated.
If it’s abundantly clear to Biden and Democrats in 2024 that they lost due to their genocide support, and they want to win in 2028, guess what they might do? Stop supporting genocide.
What worked in 2020? Anti-Trump rhetoric. What are they trying in 2024? Anti-Trump rhetoric. It’s valid rhetoric, but it also allows them to keep positions they want (e.g funding pro-U.S ethnostates), and ignore positions the vast majority of leftists want (free Palestine).
If anti-Trump rhetoric fails in 2024 because supporting genocide is too big of a problem, guess what might happen in 2028 that would otherwise not happen? They could stop supporting genocide to get the votes back and return to power.
Literally so unbelievably simple, yet so many people like you don’t reason it out on your own. I don’t know if it’s purposeful ignorance or genuine stupidity.
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
Nobody asked for “trust”. Just try to take a second to understand what the two party system is or even how the german system works. Keep cherry-picking info like you live in nazi germany, that just makes it easy to see you have no idea what you’re talking about and are repeating popular (trash) arguments lmao
Two things. Influential does not necessarily mean correct. Second, your use of it is not correct regardless. While I would agree with her in general. Your depiction of the situation is a bit of a hyperbolic caricature. And not the reality of the situation.
We would all, myself included, do well to remember not to alienate those with whom we actually agree a lot with. Change comes with building coalitions and gaining allies. Not virtue signaling, or pyrrhic dogmatic victories.
So people need to accept the protest votes here in the primary. But those protest voting now need to be ready to do everything they can to make sure trump and the Republicans don’t win come November. Because anyone who feels virtue signaling is worth more than the extra suffering Republicans absolutely will cause. Isn’t much better than the Republicans themselves. As an unattributed philosopher once said. All it takes for evil to triumph is for a good men to do nothing.
There are two arguments I personally find persuasive. First, are you okay with having voted for a candidate that knowingly supported a genocide with words and with weapons (because it looks more and more like this is / will be the case). Second, what other leverage do you have over the Democratic party. Let them know that they can not win with such a historically shitty candidate, lick your wounds and try again next election.
And if you think Trump is literally Hitler, please do some research and look up what happened after Germany voted for the lesser of two evils (Hindenburg).
what other leverage do you have over the Democratic party.
Voting is but one of many political actions you can take, and is therefore better considered as a small part of a larger political strategy. The best strategy for a leftist in this election is to vote uncommitted in the primaries and for Biden in the general - to send a message to the Dems while also staving off a more rapid decline to neofascism - while spending most of your time and energy engaging in direct action (i.e. protests).
And if you think Trump is literally Hitler, please do some research and look up what happened after Germany voted for the lesser of two evils (Hindenburg).
If I were in Germany in 1932 I would probably have voted for Ernst Thälmann, but the German electoral system is not the US electoral system. We have no 3rd option, and that is not something that can be addressed either by voting or abstaining. To address this will require direct action.
I am NOT ok with Biden. I’m going to vote for him anyway, because in the next term he will be less bad for Gaza than Trump would be. Even taking into account Biden’s current genocide.
That is specifically why people bang on about this. It’s counterintuitive but it’s literally not like you put it.
Whichever side you want, not participating in voting gives you the best chances of ending up with the person you want the least to be in office. It’s not a biden or trump thing. This is why voting matters.
I don’t get this meme.
Do both, vote for the lesser evil and demand change by protesting. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. You are definitely not going to get change by not voting, all you are doing is allowing the more evil to win and prevent you from protesting ever again.
well it’s don’t just vote for the lesser of two evils…
but i don’t remember anyone saying biden was the only thing needed to stop the arming of israel…
I said that.
Biden can solely stop the arming of israel by declaring they are committing human rights violations which would prevent arms exports.
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I don’t see how you’re having trouble understanding that anti-genocide rhetoric can also come from the left. I would actually wager that the majority of genuine critiques surrounding the Biden administration’s support of genocide would not be from Republicans, since most of those fascists love the idea of killing natives in the name of forming a white ethnostate.
I doubt there are many Trump supporters who want to eliminate the existence of trans/minorities while also saying “FREE PALESTINE” on random lemmy posts lmfao.
I guess you could take the position that they’re not genuine critiques, that every critique of Biden is a false flag Trump supporter or direct KGB agent from Russia, because who in their right mind would actually give a fuck about a genocide happening to others. They’re not American, so fuck them right?
If that last paragraph resonates with you, then I’d ask you to consider who in this conversation is actually the close-minded bigot. If it doesn’t, then you have to recognize that there are genuine, valid critiques of Biden coming from the left, and it’s hard to stomach the idea of going out and openly supporting a president in favor of furthering Israel’s genocidal campaign.
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I think the majority of Trump supporters can barely get on the internet successfully, let alone infiltrate Lemmy so deeply that 99% of the anti-genocidal rhetoric are false flags. You need some actual data to back this claim, and I don’t know if you’ve ever talked to a Republican, but they’re not exactly known for their ability to empathize with other positions, they have serious trouble explaining what a socialist position even is, they genuinely don’t understand it.
If someone online is coherent in their explanation of a leftist position, they’re probably a leftist.
Potentially Palestine. I’ve explained this countless times to you moderate libs, and I have no idea how you can’t figure this out on your own, it’s not complicated.
If it’s abundantly clear to Biden and Democrats in 2024 that they lost due to their genocide support, and they want to win in 2028, guess what they might do? Stop supporting genocide.
What worked in 2020? Anti-Trump rhetoric. What are they trying in 2024? Anti-Trump rhetoric. It’s valid rhetoric, but it also allows them to keep positions they want (e.g funding pro-U.S ethnostates), and ignore positions the vast majority of leftists want (free Palestine).
If anti-Trump rhetoric fails in 2024 because supporting genocide is too big of a problem, guess what might happen in 2028 that would otherwise not happen? They could stop supporting genocide to get the votes back and return to power.
Literally so unbelievably simple, yet so many people like you don’t reason it out on your own. I don’t know if it’s purposeful ignorance or genuine stupidity.
There are too damn many leftists saying Assad is a good person
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Who is the current president right now, Donald Trump?
Is Donald Trump going to stop Joe Biden being complicit in Genocide?
And what you’re saying is not even true I have plenty criticized Republicans.
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Yes people that can see that Biden is the one complicit in Genocide.
It’s like DNC voters have turned into the 2016 MAGA cult, purely voting for Biden no matter what he does.
Biden is supposed to not be the Fascist Genocide guy.
That guy is probably a bot
I got a bunch of these tagged as Russian Shills. They love it when i point that out 🥰
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It’s like liberals have turned into 2016 Trump supporters willing to vote for their God Emperor no matter what he does.
According to my calculations, Joe Manchin is President and consistently tells Biden what he’s allowed to do
You don’t get it because you thought about it. This account seems to a mis/disinformation account. Remember to call out and report these accounts.
Well that is kinda what the post is about. You can do both, the meme says don’t JUST vote.
Hannah Arendt
Sadly this doesn’t take into account a two party voting system, and is completely wrong. They know they chose evil.
The weakness is Americans sitting on their ass, never peotesting.
Sorry if I don’t trust a keyboard warrior over one of the most influential political theorists of the 20th century.
Nobody asked for “trust”. Just try to take a second to understand what the two party system is or even how the german system works. Keep cherry-picking info like you live in nazi germany, that just makes it easy to see you have no idea what you’re talking about and are repeating popular (trash) arguments lmao
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Did you just try to insult me for being on lemmy… on lemmy?
You have no way of knowing who I am or what I have published, you’re just making stuff up cherry-picking info that “makes sense to you”.
Two things. Influential does not necessarily mean correct. Second, your use of it is not correct regardless. While I would agree with her in general. Your depiction of the situation is a bit of a hyperbolic caricature. And not the reality of the situation.
We would all, myself included, do well to remember not to alienate those with whom we actually agree a lot with. Change comes with building coalitions and gaining allies. Not virtue signaling, or pyrrhic dogmatic victories.
So people need to accept the protest votes here in the primary. But those protest voting now need to be ready to do everything they can to make sure trump and the Republicans don’t win come November. Because anyone who feels virtue signaling is worth more than the extra suffering Republicans absolutely will cause. Isn’t much better than the Republicans themselves. As an unattributed philosopher once said. All it takes for evil to triumph is for a good men to do nothing.
There are two arguments I personally find persuasive. First, are you okay with having voted for a candidate that knowingly supported a genocide with words and with weapons (because it looks more and more like this is / will be the case). Second, what other leverage do you have over the Democratic party. Let them know that they can not win with such a historically shitty candidate, lick your wounds and try again next election.
And if you think Trump is literally Hitler, please do some research and look up what happened after Germany voted for the lesser of two evils (Hindenburg).
Voting is but one of many political actions you can take, and is therefore better considered as a small part of a larger political strategy. The best strategy for a leftist in this election is to vote uncommitted in the primaries and for Biden in the general - to send a message to the Dems while also staving off a more rapid decline to neofascism - while spending most of your time and energy engaging in direct action (i.e. protests).
If I were in Germany in 1932 I would probably have voted for Ernst Thälmann, but the German electoral system is not the US electoral system. We have no 3rd option, and that is not something that can be addressed either by voting or abstaining. To address this will require direct action.
I am NOT ok with Biden. I’m going to vote for him anyway, because in the next term he will be less bad for Gaza than Trump would be. Even taking into account Biden’s current genocide.
Biden makes Trump the VP and dies a year later? I don’t get how that applies.
That’s the point, it doesn’t.
you are a shelter of sanity in a sea of cultists.
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The far-left absolutely makes sense, without suspending reality. You must be thinking of the right wing.
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No he is running the Knesset
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And that’s why I wont vote lmao.
You misspelled “that’s why I’m giving my vote to trump” ( that’s what not voting does)
Nah, he’s not voting for Trump which is the same as voting for Biden
That is specifically why people bang on about this. It’s counterintuitive but it’s literally not like you put it.
Whichever side you want, not participating in voting gives you the best chances of ending up with the person you want the least to be in office. It’s not a biden or trump thing. This is why voting matters.
“Either you’re with us or with fascism”, they say, every 5 fucking years.
Actually not voting is a vote for Biden, because I was going to vote Uncommitted, which I’ve been told was a vote for Trump