- cross-posted to:
- cars@gearhead.town
- cross-posted to:
- cars@gearhead.town
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Most electric cars today are being manufactured by either legacy automakers that are new to EV technology, or by companies like Rivian that are new to making cars,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “It’s not surprising that they’re having growing pains and need some time to work out the bugs.”
Lol @ consumer reports, worthless click
conjob reports strikes again
Yeah, they’re basically prototypes.
The first generation of battery from most EV companies had a silly high failure rate.
Tesla, GM, Nissan, Audi, etc all had really high failure rates in the first generation of cars. In the 30% range for GM and Nissan, in the 5% range for Tesla.
The motors had high failure rates (again in their first generation). Similar rates.
They’ve also added high-complexity parts like heat pumps in their first automotive iterations.
I expect all of this will become more reliable once they’re more established.
It’s plausible they already are. From what I’ve heard the failure rate on Tesla parts (battery, motor, etc) dropped significantly after the first revision in 2016 and again after 2021. 2013 battery was a 5% failure rate, while the 2017 battery was a 0.2% failure rate (roughly) from the 2022 data I saw.
I expect that progress continues and third our fourth generation EVs will be decidedly more reliable than ICE cars.
I bought a used first gen first year volt. Usually I stay away from first year cars but had heard great things. Was like number 1400 manufactured. Unbelievably reliable for 5 years I had it. Totally over engineered. But that’s the exception for sure.
Newsflash: new models are full of bugs to work out.
As a ex multiple dealer and independent mechanic, I would never EVER buy a first year car. With an inexperienced maker building EV’s, make that skipping the first 2 years. Let the early adopters deal with the teething issues and be patient. Year 3 is where the problems are solved and the car gets good.
The first year reveals the major faults that took time to appear. The second year has them engineering and verifying newer better systems, especially the less important faults and annoyances that got ignored with the initial round of fire fighting. Year 3 gets everything sorted.
I’ve bought 2 first year EVs and they both had issues with very long lead time for parts. Wouldn’t buy another year one car in the future.
I wouldn’t buy a year 1 car or truck of any type. Ford has continually screwed up their releases. Specifically the F150 and Explorer. This isn’t an EV issue it’s just a manufacturing issue that some companies have.
I got lucky, got one from the first quarter production and have had pretty much no issues (needed some earlier than preferred bushings replaced but had that done during regular visits so no special visits). But the software is buggy (not unusable) and as far as I have heard that is still the case for the newest ones off the line, 2 years later, as well.
Really hoped they would provide numbers of problems per 10,000 vehicles for each make/model. The statistics they shared could easily be to further their narrative. Haven’t been an EV owner long but so far it’s nicer than any ICE vehicle I have owned.
Lost all credibility after mentioning Kia and Hyundai as reliable cars. From my experience, my 2022 Bolt has been flawless up to now (62k km / 39k miles).
My brother in law had a 2015 Sante Fe. It puked 3 engines within 70000km. Hyundai was unable to get engines so it sat for 90-100 days each time. I remember he had an Expedition rental from Hyundai for an entire summer.
Nobody has stolen my Bolt with a USB plug
Makes sense right now. Most EVs are very new technology. They’ll get more reliable as the technology matures.
German ADAC begs to disagree.
(4.9 EVs per 1000 needed assistance vs 6.9 per 1000 for ICEs)
https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/unfall-schaden-panne/adac-pannenstatistik/
Quite funny that the 2020 ID.3 which got destroyed for it’s software and 12v battery issues is actually the most reliable vehicle in that statistic. Only 0.2 out of every 1000 vehicles registered. Good outlook for the other MEB cars which will get included in next years statistic.
I believe ADAC doesn’t count most software related problems reported because they are either fixable without a visit to a dealer or often end-user fault.
Consumer reports on the other hand take any reported issue, user errors included, to count toward their “reliability” scores.
That is one of the reasons Tesla has been rated so low forever. They count a software update to fix something as a reliability issue even if it doesn’t require any service visit or action on the customer’s part.
Yes, this ADAC study only counts events where “road assistance” was necessary.
Running out of fuel/electricity is also removed from the statistic (User error).Do you have source for the claim that they count the software update as reliability issue?
Satisfaction is scored separately and taken into the Overall Score that a car gets. Reliability score is skewered towards drivetrain over other parts of the car.
Yes, Consumer Reports.
They provide details on how they score their reliability rankings. I’ll let you look it up since I’m not Google. But they state they factor in “Owner Satisfaction”, which is self-reported from vehicle owners for literally anything they have had problems with and are not limited to actual mechanical issues requiring service.
ADAC only counts reliability (i.e. how often cars actually broke down and needed to be rescued by someone else). Software problems usually don’t lead to the car being undrivable.
Does this include all ICE cars or only modern ones? If it includes all then could it be that older cars are normally not EVs and more prone to issues?
3 years data are taken into account for their prediction. There isn’t much data for most EVs, just a year or two.
Remember that Consumer Reports weights infotainment and electronic issues the same as engine or transmission problems. So my Kia Optima needing a new engine after 80k miles is a single problem, just like an EV6 having a software glitch on startup.
It’s not surprising that EVs, which contain more features and more new tech than your average ICE car, have a higher total number of “issues.”
Remember that Consumer Reports weights infotainment and electronic issues the same as engine or transmission problems.
They literally do not do this.
Engine major, engine cooling, transmission major, drive system, electric motor and EV battery problems are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weight these areas more heavily in our calculations of model year overall reliability verdict. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the reliability history charts.
As far as I understand, CR corrects data from own subscribers, and that’s kinda skewing own dataset. Their readers are highly conscious on reliability and measure every spec per dollar.
Average buyer of muscle cars probably never read CR, Jeep owners gets own parts, fix problems by themselves, and their data are less likely reported to CR.
Younger generations tend to learn from other sources, and average subscriber age might be around 50s at this point.
Consumer Reports with their annual EV FUD.
All these negative EV posts the last few months piss me off. Some people need an ice. Some people get by perfectly fine with evs. Lots of people would be well served by a plug in or hybrid. The dishonesty about EVs and the attacks on them are just propaganda.
I’d be curious how they came up with such a ridiculous conclusion. An EV has much fewer moving parts that can potentially fail than an ICE.
Toyota and Lexus at the top… EVs are bad. Got it