Recently test drove both. I’m looking for a potential replacement for an aging, full bolt on Mazdaspeed3 and a CX-30 (would be nice to consolidate down to one vehicle.)
Interior is the same on both (that lovely red leather). The N/A Skyactiv 2.5 pulls nicely from idle and is enough to push you back in the seat once the tach sweeps over 5 grand. It did not feel lacking in power and while it’s no sledgehammer like the DISI in the MS3, it’s more than adequate for public roads with 191hp. The shifter/clutch combo is fantastic and you can easily heel/toe this car just like the Speed. Handling is good, it rotates well, but not quite as good as the Speed (more body roll on a spirited back road drive), and the car is under-tired IMO, but the suspension is far more compliant over rough surfaces even with the torsion beam. The Speed is a hardcore car and kind of beats you up but as a guy who’s over 40 now, which is why I stopped dailying it, and the new 3 feels easier on the back.
The Turbo is great, I would totally rock one of them as a fast cruiser, but I have to give it a zonk for the SUV-like power delivery that falls off over 4k and artificial engine noise from the speakers (really, Mazda?) Also felt heavier over the front axle than the 3 manual, which is a given given a turbo, intercooler, plumbing, and heavier engine internals to take the boost. Finally, it’s an automatic, and not a particularly crisp shifting one, and as such, there’s just less to do, less engagement, less moment to moment fun outside of onramp blasts. You drive the 3 manual with all four limbs. My arm and hand, and left foot, are a piece of the powertrain.
Anyway, the N/A manual feels like an enthusiast gem that gets slept on more than it should. I had a buzz after driving it that I didn’t get off the Turbo.
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Hell yeah, did you know they make a supercharger for it?
I bought a turbo 3 last year and absolutely love it. I understand what you’re saying and I feel you, but that’s what a Miata is for. Driving a slow car fast, shifting, feeling the road…I love my NA for that. The turbo 3 is more of a luxury car than a nimble import imo. Either way, we’re all having a good time driving Mazdas
Yeah I have no interest in upgrading to a new turbo 3, it just feels much less “raw” than the 2.5l 6 speed. All of the power is down low and that’s great, but there’s no drama to it. The suspension also feels so soft from the factory. My wife has the turbo CX30 and it’s great for her, but it’s meh when I drive it. Great for roadtrips though.
That’s why I am either keeping my current 3 and getting an older miata to satisfy my cravings, or just upgrade to a GR Corolla at some point as a single do-it-all car. Not really sure which way I’ll go
i hear you, the NA manual really feels like it’s underrated. the turbo just didn’t do it for me when i test drove it. the power delivery didn’t match the chassis and suspension, and it didn’t feel as fast as i expected in a straight line. the base engine with auto transmission surprised me too, i ended up liking it a lot.
My last car was a CX-5 with the turbo and while the low end with that motor torque is phenomenal it has no sporting aspirations whatsoever. I really wish they would have tuned in differently for the 3. I considered a turbo 3 but I’m much happier a 3 with a manual transmission. I added the Corksport intake with air box and front strut brace and that really sharpened the throttle response and chassis flex both on turn in and when putting the power down out of a corner. Also, that shifter and clutch combo is very easy to live with, even in stop and go traffic. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a sporty car but it’s well composed and every input comes with a predictable and natural reaction. It just feels good to drive. Plus, it’s fantastic on gas; I’m averaging 35.8 mpg over the 7800 miles I’ve put on it so far.
The new 3s just feel awful as drivers cars in general, they took 3 steps backward with the steering and suspension. They were never intended to be fun or engaging, theyll get beat by cheaper cars in both corners and straight lines because they aren’t geared or tuned for performance. At best, they’re decent highway cruisers and not much more. That’s why I own a Hyundai now after owning 6 mazdas, Hyundai makes better “zoom zoom” cars since Mazda killed that aspect in favor of faux luxury.
It’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow. Get the manual.
Calling a 191 hp Mazda 3 “slow” is a bit of a stretch.
It’s slow compared to the emerging crop of megafast EVs, but it’s a million times more engaging as well. From another perspective, the 3MT is as fast as the 91 Trans Am I owned back in late 90s - probably a 15.0 second quarter with a 90ish mph trap speed. My current modded MS3 would be into the 12s with a good launch.
Well yeah, a Chevy Bolt will smoke many Italian sports cars on a short race.
Slow in comparison to the turbo model.
Both are slow compared to stuff that Mazda has built before, like the MS3. But the 3MT is still the far more engaging choice esp. given how the AT in the 3 Turbo is calibrated.
Sure isn’t fast
I’d agree. While the Gen. 4 took steps back from the “fun” aspect in order to achieve a more premium experience overall, the manual transmission in it is still as crisp & notchy as ever. The 2.5T is a solid motor, but (to me, anyway) the engagement was lacking from the automatic (as much as I liked it for being an automatic).
I have the MT in my 2018 Gen. 3 Mazda3 hatch & have no regrets. I’d opt for it again with the Gen. 4 if I’m back in the market for a new car. It’s a hoot to drive on the twisty mountain roads near me. If you’re only driving yourself & are light on cargo, the 2.5L NA motor has plenty of torque from the 3k-5k RPM band to give you all the fun you need.
I wouldn’t look at a Mazda 3 if you have a Mazdaspeed 3. Mazda doesn’t have a vehicle for you sadly.
Love my manual hatchback 2019 Mazda3 premium. Love how the torque builds up on the naturally aspirated motor. 3-5k rpm is sublime. I think there’s a YouTube video of Dave Coleman, talking about how the turbo is not suited to be fun for a manual because of its torque band. That being said, I wish Mazda would just make a turbo that is fun with a manual (and AWD too). More power is always more fun.
Manual is more fun, but it’s undeniably underpowered. I came from 187hp 3rd gen NA to 4th gen 250hp turbo and I enjoy all the torque and additional power. I lowered the car a little bit and got better tires and it handles leaps better than stock now.
I drove both when I was car shopping, the Turbo 3 felt underwhelming and just “numb”, nowhere remotely near as fun as my 2011 Speed3 (was also FBO/e30, now stock) which is still in the family. My friend actually ended up buying the Turbo 3 instead of me. I’m a huge fan of the interiors and exteriors of these cars but that’s about it.
The regular AWD 3 that I also test drove was actually fine, but I didn’t fall in love with it when I drove it so I ended up in an Audi A4 lol. Not as reliable but much more “fun” to drive because of the low end torque, even though it’s probably the most boring Audi out right now, I’ll freely admit that.
Perhaps the Manual 3 is better because the Auto I drove just wasn’t it. In any case, I don’t think you’d be missing much by going with the Turbo 3, save your money and if anything just get the regular 3 with AWD if you want AWD.
Well, the Turbo 3 is missing the engagement. Not dissing the car, I quite like it actually, I just didn’t find it especially captivating to drive. Certainly would do a great job as a luxe, quick-ish commuter though.
Exactly! It was my top choice when I was looking because I love my speed, but it definitely lacks engagement as you said.
MT 3 is a great daily. Cheap to run, fun to play with but comfortable and quiet when you just need to drive somewhere.
I would actually say it’s more like driving an RX-8 than an MS3. I won’t say I don’t miss the extra power of the MS3, but it pays dividends at the pump.
As someone that went from an RX-8 to a MS3 to a 4th gen 3 Premium 6MT, but has plenty of seat time with the turbo drivetrain in my wife’s CX-9s, you are on the right track. The automatic is really not fun and the weight distribution is somehow even worse with the turbo than the MS3.
Any regrets over selling your MS3? I’d be a little worried that it could turn into a long term life regret, as I’ve owned it since new and frankly it’s still an awesome, fast car. Just not something I want to daily anymore, for a number of reasons.
I had mine for 8 years - from 2 miles through around 36,000. 2012 tech package. I didn’t really expect to replace it but drove the new 3 while shopping for my wife’s car. This was not long after lockdown, in kind of a sweet spot where used car prices were climbing and new cars were incentivized heavily. I got a lot for my MS3 and got the new one for well under sticker with 0% financing. It was a deal that I literally could not refuse.
I don’t get to do much fun driving, and I only drive to my office 1-2 times a month, so much of my driving is errands or dropping my kids off. I miss the turbo when I’m passing on a 2 lane road, but not that much in daily driving.
To put it another way, the new one is 90% as fun but 150% better to live with. It’s vastly more comfortable, shockingly quiet, the tech is about 20 years newer, shifter/clutch are better, and you’re not giving up much with that chassis. I think better tires will get back a lot of it, and the people going on about the inferior rear suspension are clowns from what I can tell. Visibility is a little worse out the back, but you gain a camera. Gas savings are not insignificant between using regular and gaining 5-10 MPG.
My only real beef with the car is the cylinder deactivation, and I’m hoping to find a tune that turns it off. I hate the way it sounds and feels. Otherwise, no regrets. Keep us posted!
Similar boat here, owned mine since new, so nearly 12 years now. Was deep into the old Mazdaspeedforums scene, with meetups with other owners, modding, etc. But now most of my driving is school dropoffs, grocery runs, and a short commute. Guess I got old. Barely even a chance to spool the turbo most days, and as you probably recall, the MS3 isn’t that great off boost. It’s not fast. And you’re still dealing with that heavy clutch and dual mass flywheel each shift. And stiff suspension, etc. They are hardcore cars.
There’s that, and the fact that these cars are now entering that netherworld of too old to be supported by the OEMs (got turned away by my dealer for a clutch job recently despite practically begging them) yet are not desirable, appreciating classics like, say, a Mitsubishi Evo. The ownership base for the Speeds has gone downmarket toward kids who are beating the hell out of half-dead examples of the cars, along with a tiny smattering a hardcore owners with built cars who’ll never sell (like over on Mazdaspeeds.org). I don’t have time to work on the car myself, so I take it to a quality independent, but as you know these cars are maintenance queens and just keeping them in good running order isn’t cheap when little things need attention and you’re paying shop rates of $165 an hour. The idea of a new 3 with a warranty that captures 90% of the MS3 experience during daily, responsible driving is awfully compelling.
Very similar boats! I miss mazdaspeedforums, even more when someone posts a dumb question around here. I really had no intentions of trading my 8 year old MS3 with 36K miles, but I was really impressed with the 4th gen. I really only considered the -Accord 2.0T with a 6 speed when I decided to make the move, but it turned out they were all gone by Spring 2020 and they just hadn’t announced they weren’t making more. It’s hard to make a case for any alternatives now. Integra or GTI, but both have serious drawbacks.
As a miata owner I would rather own a manual premium than an auto turbo. The turbo engine is really a CUV engine that is fun because it’s fast but not really a driver’s engine. Manual Mazdas also hold their value very well. Look at early skyactiv generation manual Mazda 3 2.5 prices. The turbo is a fun torquey daily driver. It’s like a grand touring compact. The manual premium is the drivers car though. Most affordable manual compacts have small turbo engines. The Mazda 3 has a relatively high displacement normally aspirated four. It’s a nice setup that feels a bit like an older NA V6.
I’ve heard in videos (So take this with a grain of salt), that the Turbo engine either, doesn’t feel that different from the N/A Engine at low revs (It only shows over 4,000 RPM with premium fuel) or that it is tuned like an SUV engine, so, lots of torque but not a lot of power so it isn’t fast :(
So it seems the N/A engine is the way :),