Anyone every convert to manual brakes?
I have a project car and basically will be replacing the whole system. I was looking at a manual brake setup. Is it comfortable for street and even some road track driving?
Older car doesn’t have abs, just looking at some options.
Yes I know I need a master/caliper/proportioning valve al configured to be compatible.
The real question is why would you?
I was part of a cheapo endurance race league. Plenty of teams would run manual steering for reliability reasons. No one ran manual brakes. Don’t know why you ever would.
It’s a lot more expensive and difficult to design and install manual brakes to a car than disconnecting a PS pump.
I genuinely just want to know what has inspired you to have an interest in doing this.
They suck all around.
There are so many easy power assist options no excuse not to.
Yeah, high performance manual brakes are awesome. The pedal doesn’t feel like it has a whole lot of travel; it’s more like you’re modulating pressure, so you can really use the brakes to their maximum potential. The feel is superb. I’m assuming that you’ll be using triple or dual master cylinders with an adjustable balance bar?
I’ve had the same experience with my setup. I much prefer manual brakes to assisted brakes now.
I have non-power assist brakes on my 83 c10. They’re fine for street cruising, but I wouldn’t want them for anything else.
Vacuum boosters are so damn simple why wouldn’t you keep one
Just looking at options. I want new booster and master, was looking at a manual setup.
Was looking into all 1 brand brake system, instead of hodgepodging factory style stuff. Hoping for a more “designed” system.
I’d go with an oem or similar booster and a Wilwood master cylinder. I considered manual brakes on one of my street projects but am definitely glad I kept a vacuum booster. Way more usable.
You will not be able to produce enough force with your foot to brake reliably without a booster.
To answer your question: No, it is not comfortable for street driving. I don’t do track days, but I can’t imagine you’d want un-powered brakes there either.
I have a 72’ Oldsmobile Cutlass a few years back. It had brake drums all around and no brake booster. The care is a survivor and is original from 1972.
One of the first things I did was disk brakes up front and a brake booster.
I cannot stress enough how important it was to get this done.
*Stopping the car required distance. Standing hard on the brake pedal quickly meant lockups. So massaging the brakes was mandatory. It took a lot of effort and stopping times are LONG compared to modern cars.
*Traffic and roads are built to 2023 standards, NOT 1972 standards. 1972 brakes on 2023 roads is not a great thing.
*Every day will be leg day. It’s not just the stopping it is the staying stopped. Release brake pressure and the car will move. Applying lots of pressure all the time gets old.
*After the brake improvements stopping the Olds became more like stopping in a modern car. I felt safer and the car feels better.
Its a great upgrade, but there was something going on with those cutlass brakes if they were like you describe. A 4 wheel drum car is pretty much fine around town, can get a little iffy in the rain, and when you get the brakes hot, but on dry pavement, in normal conditions you shouldn’t notice much of a difference.
I have full locking brakes no abs on my Mitsubishi project car, I just never use it in snow but it works great, I installed a proportioning valve giving slightly less flow to the front than the back and if you stand on the pedal it seems to first lock the back and slowly clamp the front, on a good note I also have brembos 6 calipers so car stops around 20 ft better than stock.
Don’t ask me the %, it was set during a weekend by tightening and loosening the multiple fittings in each line, you have to do it for yourself.
My 66 Mustang has manual drum brakes. Driving it around town is no issue. You DO need to push the pedal harder. But one thing to remember is that the geometry of drum brakes makes them sort of self-assist. And the old mustangs are light cars at around 2800lbs.
For lower speed city driving, manual brakes are fine. If I were to drive it on highways, or anything faster than 45mph, I’d want a power disc setup. I’ve toyed with the idea of doing a manual disc setup, but the more I think about it, it’s just not worth it.
Wanting to downgrade from power brakes in any car doesn’t make sense if it’s something you want to track in any fashion. You’re taking your most important safety system and making it significantly less functional.
I’m running the stock 4 piston disks in my 66 with rear drums and a manual brake system. I have no issues at all stopping the car even from triple digits. Remember brake boosters only decrease the amount of effort needed to press the pedal but they do not increase the total amount of brake pressure sent to the calipers. Most of that is dictated by the mc bore size and the pedal ratios. Do it right and you can have manual brakes and a pedal that is not much harder to press when compared to power brakes.
Problem is that most reproduction and aftermarket brake boosters are not set up right which leads many to have subpar brakes that are easy to press but do not properly stop the car. Atleast on mustangs. I have successfully converted a few classic mustangs with subpar braking performance to manual brakes and the cars now stop on a dime every time.
Unless you change the pedal ratio, power brakes in a mustang of that era always feel spongy. I hate them, even with the KH calipers in the front its too much assist.
It’s gonna be hard in regular traffic but on the racetrack i can see why you would want stiff brakes.
This is my personal experience w/ my manual brake E36 that I track and drive on the street. I need around 80lbs of pedal pressure to threshold brake. For regular street driving, I don’t have any reasons to ever need more than 20lbs. So it’s very manageable, and I enjoy the precise feel that the brakes give me.
Well 80 lbs is not that much, so you have softer brakes in your bimmer. However this depends a lot from car to car, brake system to brake system and so on. So on some cars you will find that you need over 200 lbs of force for peak pressure and 50 for everyday use. It’s worth giving this manual brake thing a try tho.
Ok, I’ve owned a 3rd and 4th gen f-body, and you want power assisted brakes. Pedal feel was good when the system was bled properly, and with appropriate pads for your application, should be a nice setup.
I guess I’m in the minority here, but Manual Brakes are great as long as the master cylinder is properly sized to your disc/drum piston size to get the right amount of mechanical advantage. For instance I swapped out my 70 c10 with a wilwood disc all around and master cylinder and I prefer it to most modern brakes as you can modulate so much better, but also it didn’t feel like I was doing leg day everyday as it was with the original manual drum brake setup. Main thing is to talk to a vender and have them spec it out for you. I had great luck with Wilwood but I’d imagine other venders could have the same experience.
A well setup system is the key to great manual brake.
Personally, I’d stick to power brakes for a mostly street car.
As some mentioned (as others questioned why) a consistent pedal feel is the main advantage. Getting on the brakes from a high RPM feels different than at a low RPM with power brakes.
I have a '92 LS1/T56 Camaro streetcar and a '86 LT1 Camaro roadrace car. Both have power brakes (racecar due to: it’s in the rules). Even if it was allowed per the rules, my ability is far behind that upgrade as in I wouldn’t see a big drop in laptimes from it.