This has been an issue with schools since forever. Focusing on grades instead of learning means many kids will do what is needed to get a good grade, pass the class and get the degree.
When we stop valuing grades and start valuing knowledge directly, learning improves. Knowledge should be the reward and what we laud. The grade is just a mechanic for evaluation, but should be considered no value in itself. That’s what kids need to be taught and shown from day one.
When your kid comes home from school, ask them what they learned. Ask them to teach you as if you don’t know, or maybe you really don’t. Don’t correct them, instead ask questions that might lead them to the correct answer, if you know it. People learn best by teaching others. When you give your kid the expectation that they will be teaching you what they learned, even casually, they pay attention in class and do much better.
It’s much better than doomscrolling tiktok for both of you, trust me.
you can’t measure knowledge though.
schools teachers and students are measured, they are judged by numerical performance metrics.
also, after grammar school parents have no clue what their kids are doing or learning. most adults can’t do algebra or read beyond a 7th grade level.
plus what you are implying would require massively more teachers and time in education, something nobody wants.
How do you mark that? You can’t just give them a zero
Yes you can; it’s easy. Make the policy clear that any generative AI use will result in disqualification of the whole team. Then enforce it.
administration won’t let you do that. you will lose your job if you try to fail students.
they will force you to pass students.
also a lot of parents straight up bribe teachers now for grades.
disqualification of the whole team.
Oh fuck no. I’ve been stuck on teams with deadweights before. Teachers refused to do anything about them contributing nothing at all. Still pissed that asshole graduated.
I swear group assignments are probably the best exposure to real-life work that the school can offer. You will run into people just as lazy throughout your life. Better to recognize them early on and come up with a plan for dealing with them.
Who the fuck enrolls in an educational course, if they wish to skip learning?
Increasingly higher ed in america is being treated as a degree mill, where students are “customers” and the degree is a “product.”
It’s disgusting, but it’s a natural consequence of a commodified education system in which colleges and universities are treated as businesses.
I personally think we need to cut out the parasitic administrators and let the department faculty run the schools like co-ops, and possibly hire out the few administrative tasks that are actually necessary.
That would be far cheaper than paying these enormous administrative salaries, so it could lower tuition while increasing faculty pay.
But has anyone considered those poor shareholders?
most people hate learning. because it’s difficult and requires effort and time.
cheating is easy. you get results with less time or effort.
As all the others say, they want the cert and the status that comes with the cert.
It’s part of the reason everyone needs three years experience for an entry level job, a good student fresh out of education is worth little but then worth a lot if they learn fast. A bad student fresh out of education won’t learn at all and will be an active detriment, if only because they’re taking a seat someone better could take.
People who use AI for everything aren’t guaranteed to be bad students, but bad students probably will use AI for everything. The trick will be figuring out the difference.
Just for the cert or whatever at the end.
Oh, you’d be surprised.
I used to teach english for non native speakers, and after chatgpt’s debut in 2023, almost every single essay, homework, and presentation was entirely done with LLMs. We had to demand handwritten essays, and presentations had to be done in the classroom (we gave the theme, they worked out a presentation, and then presented it the same day without leaving the class).
And even then, some students would ask to go to the bathroom, use their phones, memorize a whole ass paragraph from chatgpt and then come inside class to write it down.
The mentally bankrupt
Wools that just want the cert
ugh,we’re so fucked
Stupid in, stupid out applies to teaching as well. 🥲
I would’ve wanted to see exactly what kind of games these students were putting out.
QWOP
That’s unfair towards QWOP.
My two cents on this is that the education system is lagging.
Implied, thing’s are changing quickly too soon for any education to happen. A lot of education platforms are training companies llm modules. Students are adapting by using llms but it doesn’t produce more data. All big tech that’s invested in llms are pushing it harder down your throat to the point of canceling contracts as threats.
And then there’s always the “which studio will be shut down today?”
On one hand employers are telling their employees to use more AI, like their jobs depend on it and in the other hand an educational game dev program is punishing people for using it. I’m not pro-AI, but you’ve got to admit there are some mixed messages going on.
It’s a program for learning how to develop games. There’s no point in trying to teach someone who isn’t willing to learn. Businesses don’t give a shit about the wellbeing and continued professional development of their employees, they just want to see Line Go Up™. Therefore, they want employees to use the slop machine.
If you’re going to be a developer you will have to learn how to use AI. It’s as simple as that. Obviously there’s a big difference in AI assisted coding and asking Claude to make you a Mario clone.
Those employers are just trying to get employees to code themselves out of a job. If AI is doing the work for you then there’s no sense in keeping you around, and no sense in teaching you anything.
Stupid in, stupid out applies to teaching as well. 🥲
Better they don’t learn anything at all then the lazy ones pass, right?!
I think this is stupid. Ai use is a symptom and can be controlled. But it is helpful when learning to see more advanced work so you learn how it all comes together.
Edit: I think you’re missing the point: the kids who want to make a game and learn are punished by removing this, and the kids who want to slack off aren’t being hurt by cutting corners.
But are they learning anything other than “AI will do it for me”?
Are they learning anything when you take the fun exercise away from the motivated kids?
That’s more my issue.
If the other kids are using AI fix THAT. Don’t take away the fun projects.
You missed the point. No one was doing the “fun exercise”.
I can’t read the article because of adblock, was there truly not a single kid that submitted something not vibecoded?
I’d love to know and see the games myself. There was not a single kid mentioned in the article. It mentions “some kids” did it, but the article is speculation citing a reddit post, no one knows if AI was the reason for the programs shutdown from what I read.
That same person also suggested, however, that funding cutbacks could have been an even bigger factor in the decision, saying that “projects like this are the first to get cut” when government budgets get tight.
Feels like AI is engagement bait here 🪤
Well then give us the solution then to this problem of being able to easily differentiate student made projects and pure AI slop.
I’m sure the organizers and judges of this competition who literally started they cannot easily do so would love your answer.
Keep running it, and let the ones who can learn learn? Although it was formatted as a competition, the main point of it was to assist learning, and that wouldn’t change for the kids who did put in the effort. If necessary, remove the competition part.
The main point of this was the competition, the fun was the competition for both the kids and the organizers/judges. Turning it into something else isn’t a solution to the problem the organizers were attempting to fix here since again the point and the fun here was the competition.
What’s the proposed solution for being able to easily differentiate student made projects and pure AI slop?
If I take a math course and everything is submitted from someone else solving it for me I’ll come off learning nothing.
And usually when it comes to advanced work it builds on the understanding of previous ones, so if you come off learning nothing from the one before then you hit a road block.
If you are able to do something with zero knowledge then it is something they don’t need you for, and you’ll probably lack the skills required for the advanced ones that do if you couldn’t even do the basics yourself.
As I posted on another comment:
Are they learning anything when you take the fun exercise away from the motivated kids?
That’s more my issue.
If the other kids are using AI fix THAT. Don’t take away the fun projects.
When learning something like derivatives my teacher made me do it the painful slow way of doing through graphing as opposed to using a formula. Afterwards we were allowed to use formulas and then later just our calculators.
Same thing applies to coding. AI bypasses learning fundamentals if the intent of the class is to teach the basics. If people run it through AI then there’s little reason for the class to exist and funds are better spend elsewhere.
Later on: “I can’t code or figure out code… how did this happen? I took courses and I chose the AI that passed them… why don’t I know the skills they were supposed to teach? “
No reason to look at all this and assume anyone learns anything.
I work in software. Have for 29 years. There will be no one writing software very soon. Like it or not, seems the ship has sailed. The company I work for has a goal of 100% AI generated code within the next 18 months. So might as well give these kids an A, I guess. It’s not going back to the old way.
How soon are we talking? Tons of people reject AI, and they continue making software.
I’m sure even in companies things are going to change, as it’s already not cheaper to make software with AI, not to mention the technical debt they’re building with nobody understanding the code largely produced by AI. Sure, as much as I want it, AI is probably not going to go away completely, but it’s going to swing back hard in the other direction.
not to mention the technical debt they’re building with nobody understanding the code largely produced by AI.
Swap AI with humans and this statement continues to be true.
You understand there is a difference though right?
Even if that statement is true is generality, it’s not like replacing a person, wholesale with an LLM, is a one for one exchange.
why can’t we syndicate them out, now, so your kids can actually program?
Why would I want my kids to code at this point? AI codes better already. This isn’t like John Henry and the steam engine. This is John Henry vs. a space ship.
Why? That’s an easy one. Money. AI does it “better” and faster, according to pointy hair bosses that don’t care they’ve given every employee a nuke without a safety. Love the downvotes. I am working in this biz right now. Believe or don’t believe it. It’s already coming and practically here. I have not written code in the last 12 months and I am evaluated on how much AI I have used. We are pruning people that are not using it or willing to learn how to use it. You won’t stop it. I won’t stop it and certainly the government is not going to stop it. We can rage all we want. This is here now. It’s not going anywhere.
AI has better test coverage. Less bugs and vulnerabilities. Way faster. especially when a company uses a proper AI Software Development Lifecycle. Not better than humans by a little. By factors. And is probably the scariest thing in my orbit right now. Every company adopting this is only concerned about beating their competitor. So all notion of safely is completely out the window.
Why would I want my kids to code at this point?
Because you want your children to learn the value and joy of creative expression? To learn the ability to solve problems – of any discipline, not just software – for themselves? To give them the ability to think critically and protect themselves in an increasingly hostile world? To feel the satisfaction and confidence boost of overcoming a difficult challenge?
I don’t know you, I don’t even know if you have kids or if this is just a rhetorical argument. But still, you don’t value any of your 30 years of experience enough to pass that knowledge on to a new generation? Because that’s what you’re telling us, and it doesn’t have anything to do with AI. That’s what we in the business call a You problem. You can feel defeated, that’s normal and I sympathize with it, but you can leave your capitulation at the door. Those kids deserve better.
Because you want your children to learn the value and joy of creative expression? To learn the ability to solve problems – of any discipline, not just software – for themselves? To give them the ability to think critically and protect themselves in an increasingly hostile world? To feel the satisfaction and confidence boost of overcoming a difficult challenge?
It is possible to do all of this without needing to teach any coding skills whatsoever. I’d even argue that, given the current state of affairs, teaching these important and valuable life lessons in a way that does not involve software would be the greater value.
There is a difference between the lesson and the medium. The point that is being made is that software development may not be the best choice as a medium to carry these kinds of lessons going forward. Would you, during the early hay days of the printing press, want to teach your children to take pride in themselves for their hard-won excellence in manual text transcription?
Well we’re already in agreement that programming is merely one medium, but with AI being used as a replacement for just about any form of human expression - audiovisual arts, writing, mathematics, information sciences, etc - all mediums are under the same looming threat. So if we’re giving up on one medium, we’re gonna be giving up on most of them. And without them, we can’t really pass on those lessons. Learning doesn’t exist in the abstract, we also have to put those lessons into practice. If OP wasn’t a programmer but a musician, let’s say, then I’d have the same admittedly harsh reaction. I don’t see any reason to doompost about the end of programming, or the end of music, or the end of learning.
Finally, I don’t really know where you’re going with the printing press analogy? Like, yes? I want children to take pride in themselves for any skill they practice and enjoy? But the printing press isn’t really analogous to AI, for a number of reasons:
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LLM’s, by their nature, produce an output that is of the same type as its inputs: text begets text, images beget images, etc. As such, you can make LLM’s generate their own instructions and feed that back into it. As we know from the Claude Code leaks, Anthropic was doing just that, using CC to ask C to work on CC.
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Printing presses did not create more… printing presses. They created more print. Not even more words, the press itself didn’t conjure Martin Luther’s 95 theses into existence, it just copied an existing text. Which makes it a useful addition to our ability to create, not an outright replacement.
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Printing presses were still human operated machines, requiring knowledge of its inner workings to maintain, repair, and operate. They’re not agentic, self-sustaining systems. Though you could argue that even AI is not self-sustaining, once its power grid fails. By the by, the printing press didn’t threaten global ecological catastrophe all on its own.
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Printing presses did not, in fact, extinguish the pencil. Schools do still teach kids how to write. Heck, humble brag time, even I get compliments on my penmanship from time to time, and I write in all capital letters!
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That sounds like why would I want my kids to learn math. Calculators do it better anyways.
Why would I want my kids to learn to write. LLMs do it faster anyways.
Reason schools teach the basics before letting students using the shortcuts is to first develop the foundations needed to know what is going on.
So even if they aren’t doing anything as machines do it they can still oversee what is going on if errors occur, which someone who doesn’t know anything at all wouldn’t be able to do. And if someome with no understanding without AI can do it then the human isn’t needed at all at that point.
Given how many people fail learning from history, I can see why WasabiWabbit@lemmy.ca decided to betray his class. The foundations of class consciousness doesn’t exist. So we’ll continue repeating the poem of history.
Two questions for you:
- What behavior, if any, would you consider appropriate here?
- What have you done (other than posting hate-filled comments on Lemmy) to further your cause?
- Wabbit
- Are you claiming this is your project?
the human isn’t needed at all at that point.
Yes. This is the point they were making. On the current trajectory, and very soon to boot, many tasks — like writing code — will be entirely automated. That is exactly the goal of nearly every corporate player with any skin in this game, and for better or worse, it looks like this will indeed come to pass.
What value that leaves for human endeavor and understanding in these areas is an important but entirely separate matter.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/oct/13/ai-companies-rushed-workers-fallout
https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/shopify-ceo-ai-workplace-staff-horrified-backfire
While I definitely don’t disagree with you that our illustrious CEO’s and MBA executives are always looking to get rid of us blood filled cost accounts, it would seem that a lot of companies are finding out that AI isn’t the savior they thought it was.
We are pruning people that are not using it or willing to learn how to use it. You won’t stop it. I won’t stop it and certainly the government is not going to stop it.
Got it. So not only a treasonous class traitor, but also an accelerationist without an ounce morality and hope for a future.
Good luck in foodbanks.
In its current state, its much much worse than actual humans, and in the near future, will cost much much more as well.
Lol. Lmao even.
Thank you for being the adult in the room. I appreciate it even if others cannot.
It’s really disheartening to see people on here not only consistently fail to understand what is happening in the world around them, but also go on to tar and feather anyone who tries to give them an informed perspective.
Sir, this is a Wendys.
