• Melobol@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    Honestly I am just applauding every time a new contender shows up.
    Eu is trying to step away from US monopoly products. And trying to do stuff on their own.
    China taking over the best supercomputer.

    And while capitalism is one of the worst thing invented on the planet. I’m hesitant to say China’s system is the way to go.
    The Eastern Block wasn’t happy with the Mother Russia - if the system is forced without any smarts behind it - it will just sour every survivor’s thinking.
    Not that Ice is any better than Gestapo or KGB. It is sad to see patterns repeating themselves.

    • eleijeep@piefed.social
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      1 day ago

      Yes I wouldn’t want anyone to think that my comment is praising their authoritarianism, surveillance panopticon, cultural genocide of ethnic minorities, extra-national police stations, hacking of critical infrastructure etc.

      Just that when you’re competing against late stage capitalism, the bar for success is set very low.

      • orc girly@lemmy.ml
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        18 hours ago

        Please research further. I believe your heart is in the right place, but you sound like many of us before we started actually looking for sources and educating ourselves to see past propaganda. Western media (and NGOs, like Amnesty) have been caught lying so many times in just the last few decades to justify destroying countries and raping their peoples that we can’t just take their word for it, especially when talking about the countries that can actual beat them.

        Obviously they do have surveillance, all states that can afford to, do, but the cultural genocide claim is false (on youtube, you can find random tourists in Xinjiang passing by people speaking Uyghur, for instance, no need to take my word for it when the evidence is literally there, documented by random liberals online; you can also find stats on how many mosques they have, the legal status of Uyghur and Tibetan, the differences in how one child policy was applied for ethnic minorities, stats on population growth, etc). The extra-national police thing is a conspiracy theory, too. Hacking does happen, in both directions.

        Generally, I trust that you’re a smart person who can look things up, try to get sources on different things, and always understand the bias of every speaker. You know my bias is very pro-China, and you know that western media is very anti-China, and you’re free to be anti-China as much as you’d like, but it’s best if you do it with actual sources so we can have good faith discussions on both sides rather than resort to repeating disproven conspiracy theories. We don’t need to repeat claims from QAnon to point to very real problems in the US. If hypothetically the BBC decided to platform anti-US conspiracies (which they won’t, because they’re aligned) that wouldn’t make it any more legitimate, it just shows a bias, in this hypothetical case against the US. The sooner we move past the propaganda, the sooner we can have more honest discussions about China and anything else, even if we might not necessarily agree (ex: I understand many anarchists don’t like China, that’s fine with me as long as they don’t hate China more than other states based on propaganda, but rather reflecting a consistent position against states in general, even if it’s one I disagree with).

        Lastly, my reason to like China is because they’re generally a positive force in the international stage, they help many countries actually be able to develop, not out of goodness or something, but because it’s good for them as well as for our countries, and that’s good enough for me. The sooner we have a multilateral world where countries like my own can develop and heal, the better.

        • Dreamer@lemmy.ml
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          8 hours ago

          Finding an unbiased take on China’s treatment of the Ughyurs is neigh impossible. However, reading Chinese law involving the state’s legal definition of extremism does not inspire much confidence.

          https://youtu.be/cz9ICFDk8Js?t=510

          (7) Wearing, or compelling others to wear, burqas with face coverings, or to bear symbols of extremification

          Did the French infiltrate the Chinese government? A lot of the attitudes towards Ughyurs really is reminiscent of the Western attitudes towards the Natives in the Americas. The Europeans saw themselves as culturally superior and civilized, so they took it upon themselves to “educate” the indigenous. Do you believe that there exists any peoples that are truly above some sort of exceptionalism, or is this false pride just a part of human nature?

          Granted, even the video linked and its evidence were from five years ago. Lots might have changed since then.

        • iopq@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          They have been taking the signs in Uyghur down and putting them up in Chinese in Xinjiang. They also enforce Mandarin in schools.

      • Melobol@lemmy.ml
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        20 hours ago

        Honestly at this point I don’t know what is propaganda and what isn’t.