• orc girly@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    3 days ago

    Please research further. I believe your heart is in the right place, but you sound like many of us before we started actually looking for sources and educating ourselves to see past propaganda. Western media (and NGOs, like Amnesty) have been caught lying so many times in just the last few decades to justify destroying countries and raping their peoples that we can’t just take their word for it, especially when talking about the countries that can actual beat them.

    Obviously they do have surveillance, all states that can afford to, do, but the cultural genocide claim is false (on youtube, you can find random tourists in Xinjiang passing by people speaking Uyghur, for instance, no need to take my word for it when the evidence is literally there, documented by random liberals online; you can also find stats on how many mosques they have, the legal status of Uyghur and Tibetan, the differences in how one child policy was applied for ethnic minorities, stats on population growth, etc). The extra-national police thing is a conspiracy theory, too. Hacking does happen, in both directions.

    Generally, I trust that you’re a smart person who can look things up, try to get sources on different things, and always understand the bias of every speaker. You know my bias is very pro-China, and you know that western media is very anti-China, and you’re free to be anti-China as much as you’d like, but it’s best if you do it with actual sources so we can have good faith discussions on both sides rather than resort to repeating disproven conspiracy theories. We don’t need to repeat claims from QAnon to point to very real problems in the US. If hypothetically the BBC decided to platform anti-US conspiracies (which they won’t, because they’re aligned) that wouldn’t make it any more legitimate, it just shows a bias, in this hypothetical case against the US. The sooner we move past the propaganda, the sooner we can have more honest discussions about China and anything else, even if we might not necessarily agree (ex: I understand many anarchists don’t like China, that’s fine with me as long as they don’t hate China more than other states based on propaganda, but rather reflecting a consistent position against states in general, even if it’s one I disagree with).

    Lastly, my reason to like China is because they’re generally a positive force in the international stage, they help many countries actually be able to develop, not out of goodness or something, but because it’s good for them as well as for our countries, and that’s good enough for me. The sooner we have a multilateral world where countries like my own can develop and heal, the better.

    • Dreamer@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      3 days ago

      Finding an unbiased take on China’s treatment of the Ughyurs is neigh impossible. However, reading Chinese law involving the state’s legal definition of extremism does not inspire much confidence.

      https://youtu.be/cz9ICFDk8Js?t=510

      (7) Wearing, or compelling others to wear, burqas with face coverings, or to bear symbols of extremification

      Did the French infiltrate the Chinese government? A lot of the attitudes towards Ughyurs really is reminiscent of the Western attitudes towards the Natives in the Americas. The Europeans saw themselves as culturally superior and civilized, so they took it upon themselves to “educate” the indigenous. Do you believe that there exists any peoples that are truly above some sort of exceptionalism, or is this false pride just a part of human nature?

      Granted, even the video linked and its evidence were from five years ago. Lots might have changed since then.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        20 hours ago

        I know you don’t actually believe that teaching the national language in schools is genocide; if that was true you’d basically have to believe that every western country is committing genocide. Thus the fact that you’re trying to use that as your argument anyway can only mean that you have no problem being knowingly dishonest and bad faith if it lets you attack China

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            20 hours ago

            “Please don’t tell me about the country I live in, that’s Washington based think tanks’ job!”

              • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                18 hours ago

                “I know better because I live in China, but only Westerners from Washington DC can be trusted about China!”

          • EmmiLime@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            2 days ago

            Every fucking time lmao

            Also you’re a pro-landlord zionist and a hardcore liberal.

          • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            3 days ago

            The Uyghur Times? And their partner the Uyghur Post? Sounds very suspicious, lol.

            Oh, pupils aren’t punished for speaking their mother tongue.

              • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                3 days ago

                To the first thing, the source seems like bullshit. The second one, it’s on you to source the claims of it being widespread and institutional.

                  • Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    ·
                    2 days ago

                    The Diplomat. Based out of Washington DC…

                    And Geographical. A United Kingdom government cutout who would call the entire region “The Orient” if it was still socially acceptable.

                    Lol.

          • pucker4676@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            3 days ago

            This website checks out. If you see any issues, here’s their email: Uyghurtimes english @ gmail com

            They’re using gmail, and there’s spaces in the email address. 😆