- cross-posted to:
- linustechtips@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- linustechtips@lemmit.online
Goodbye American made spyware windows, welcome inhouse Chinese built spyware Linux distro
Europe didn’t really “ditch Windows” though or did it. You see news of some places switching to Linux or planning to switch, but if you work in a company in Europe and its not an IT company, chances are they are using Windows still. Consumers may have left Windows for Linux somewhat but most are still stuck there as well.
What if the European Union formed an organization that works on improving Free/libre software (FLOSS) since they’ll be using it? I think that would help maintaining/improving FLOSS greatly.
note: I’m not European so I don’t even know if what I’m suggesting is even possible. I’m just fantasizing really.
europe does fun dspecific projects through grants. but they are individual projects and not really something like a full OS
Ah ok thanks for the info.
They do give out grants, which then existing organizations distribute to open-source devs.
For example, they give money to the NLnet foundation: https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/101135429
And then NLnet has given it to these projects: https://nlnet.nl/project/index.html
Some of those you might know, like for example this project called “Lemmy”.Another example of what they do, which is somewhat different from what you had in mind, is that they give money to companies, if those companies open-source the developed software (and pay half the dev costs themselves), and ideally also cooperate with other companies.
You also have intermediate foundations for that, for example the Eclipse Foundation does a lot here: https://projects.eclipse.org/Lemmy what’s that 😂🤣?
Yeah seems like the EU is pretty involved with funding.
No Europe hasn’t yet. But France is certainly as serious about it as China and it is halfway through creating feasible alternatives for the complete worklflow. Once that is fully implemtented it will get much easier for all the other member states and also “Brussels” itself to follow suit. Also , having this for state bureaucracy also makey private business application much easier.
Europe didn’t really “ditch Windows” though or did it. You see news of some places switching to Linux or planning to switch
Yes, that is correct. The nature of the EU itself and many of its members individually is rather decentralised, so you will see it happen bit by bit. But there is an increase in national governments interest in doing this over the last decade or so, and them doing it will make it easier for businesses and state/regional governments to follow. A keyword to look up is “Digital sovereignty”, that’s what they usually call it.
As someone working in the public it sector, can confirm. It’s still very MS dependend and if digital sovereignty is a buzzword or meant serious is really really dependent on who is in charge. And even if they are motivated, the it landscape is a mess, migrating a system is not easy at all and takes ages
Consumers may have left Windows for Linux somewhat but most are still stuck there as well.
I work in a STEM-heavy university. Nerds everywhere, and many are computer nerds. I only know one other person here that daily-drives linux out of the hundreds I work with. I am very sceptical of the consumer market share statistics.
I wonder if the statistics are skewed as “one machine, one vote” rather than “one person, one vote.” Because I know a few people (including myself, when I was younger) who would run like multiple Linux machines and start up random VMs to do a few things here and there.
Do you mean steam stats? I don’t know of many others, and those are going to be enthusiasts of one form or another.
There are a lot of other stats around, like statcounter, cloudflare, wikimedia, and even the data pornhub publishes from time to time. All of them show linux growing, and they all have different audiences and maybe methodologies
Yep thats the main one I’ve seen posted around. I’m sure their data is accurate but I’m not convinced it’s representative of the wider consumer market
~~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science,_technology,_engineering,_and_mathematics~~
My bad, I misunderstood
I wasn’t questioning STEM.
Op mentioned consumer OS market share stats, and the only ones I know of are from Steam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
The article acknowledges the difficulty in gathering data, and moreover for their desktop numbers they reference StatCounter which itself only counts web-based usage on a subset of pages which are part of their network.
Ah that’s my mistake
Along side what you mention, I work for a company with a lot of engineers from multiple disciplines. Linux is everywhere in our environment and has been growing. Most of our engineers either have a Linux laptop, use Linux virtual machines or submit jobs through Linux backed software stacks. Our products have tools built on Linux to the point that we used to maintain our own Linux distribution to make having all those tools on a system easy, though we’ve just moved to having scripts to install and setup everything. Almost all of those engineers also have a Windows laptop as their daily driver. The few who don’t have Macs.
I don’t doubt that organizations can move to all non-Windows, but the Windows Ecosystem of Exchange, Office and Active Directory/Entra is very hard to replace. Yes, you can absolutely cobble together alternatives. But, you then have a special snowflake of an IT infrastructure. Maintenance may be eased by the use of tools like Ansible, but even that will likely result in organization specific playbooks and scripts. But centralized management of a Linux environment isn’t quite as standardized yet and so requires more planning and effort. And then there is the challenge of security.
Folks like to tout the inherent better security of Linux. As someone who works in Cybersecurity daily, I fully agree with that assessment. However, “better” isn’t “perfect”. You still need vulnerability management, monitoring and response tools. And this is an area where Linux lags behind Windows, mostly because of the effort put into it. Something as basic as Endpoint Detection and Response (EDR) on Linux is still a foreign concept to a lot of folks. And yes, it’s absolutely necessary. I’ve personally worked cases involving compromise of Linux systems and Linux specific malware. And more than just XMRig clone #5374. It may be harder to move from user to root on Linux than moving to local admin on Windows (unless some jack-off decided that Linux doesn’t need updates and DirtyCow still worked); but, there is still a lot of damage which can be done without root.
Overall, I’d say that the Linux ecosystem is evolving. It’s already embedded in a lot of environments of all sizes, but it’s usually a smaller part of a much larger Windows network. Hopefully, if enough large organizations start pushing away from Windows and towards Linux, there will be more investment and standardization. And, we’ve already seen some of that. Red Hat is a common distro of choice for large organizations because of that higher level of centralized control and standardization. Of course, a lot of the tools engineers want to use aren’t on Red Hat, specifically because of that centralization (read: everything AI). So, it will be interesting to see where we land.
I’ve recently looked at some statistics to get a sense of Linux overall market share, and it does seem to be hovering around 7% currently, which is a heck of a lot for Linux but of course still less than every 10th PC. And then there’s some more wrinkles to that.
For example one wrinkle I didn’t know about is this is skewed by a few countries, namely India has a gigantic 30% of Linux market share iirc. So you might know about the Linux growth if you live in India, but not as much in the US or Europe.
Indeed. After a couple of years of using Linux at work because no one gave shit what I used as long as I got my work done, a few weeks back I was given a new Windows PC and told I had to use it, because the company now cares about cybersecurity and everyone has been ‘upgraded’ to Win11 and Office 365.
I had an argument with my boss where he was trying to stop people checking out source code to company laptops because they could be lost. My retort was that the company uploaded all it’s company documents, spreadsheets, and other data to the cloud including employee personal data, and that was far for likely to experience a data breach. Those breaches would result in legal issues for the company, rather than a slight embarrassment.
He was apoplectic. How dare I question company policy.
Welcome to corpo land. Nobody was ever fired for choosing Microsoft.
At least in your case they didn’t give the false hope. In my case two years ago company just stated that we “enrolling in ms ecosystem”. That meant that to use your PC within company’s domain, you had to authorize it with MS account or none of sites would work. Weirdly, MS does support that not only on windows, but also on linux and MacOS. And if MacOS is simple (and supported by our tech team), linux installation is awful — it requires ubuntu lts + to install ms antivirus, that will override some system filles on top of that and will have root access afaik. Well, I don’t want company to control my personal device anyway, so I just installed win11 in qemu with tpm emulation and gpu passthrough and activated this “company account” shit there. Good luck spying on not activated bare w11 copy.
If job market wasn’t fucked, probably would just leave instead tho.
What kind of company requires employees to buy their own device to do their work?
I’m a freelancer. Cause I had to run from my country that decided to start a war for some reason. And let me tell you - no one wants to hire a migrant from russia. So yeah, upper mentioned company won’t provide hardware for freelancers, but as alternative they do provide azure virtual desktop - which sucks and also doesn’t work on linux (due to how ms implemented auth via their token).
I can request asylum and live on government support, will probably get a rejection in the long term tho, cause according to EU and other countries - russia clearly is a safe country to live.
Fair enough. Though I still feel that a company either provides the device and can enforce policies, or they don’t and they can’t.
You have my sympathies for your situation ( though I am aware that doesn’t help you very much :( )
Intune portal is supported on RHEL also; I have Rocky on my work laptop, with intune and entra SSO.
Realistically, company shouldn’t enforce such integration in the first place, even if my distro did supporter it (I won’t install RHEL on my home desktop, dude).
They justify it by “security”, but beyond changing group policy to enforce constant password rotation and system update, haven’t noticed anything that would really justify it. I guess the only real reason of this integration existing, is that they can lock me out of my own PC if they wanted to. And considering that I’m a freelancer, that can happen at any given moment.
Oh, I agree completely that it’s bonkers to require this for your personal machine. Just pointing out for anyone else reading that it isn’t limited to just Ubuntu
Just had to deal a few things with my local municipality offices and my email not being a Gmail was a big, big issue and cause of long wondering. If we (we and we, normal peeps outside of Lemmy and all) don’t even know what is a non-Google email, or why someone would use one, or the basics of Open Source, no, they won’t know about operating systems either. Maybe that could make the change easier, but it won’t make people understand why we’d need to make the change. Linux what?
If you have your own company, you would naturally use the.boss@theBestCompanyEver.lol email for these kinds of purposes. Shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. On the other hand, nobody prohibits you from getting a domain and hosting your own email even if you don’t have a company. Sure, they probably have a long list of gmail users already, but the other people will have all sorts of random email addresses, so I don’t see what’s the problem. There are lots of valid reasons to use some other service besides gmail.
You see news of some places switching to Linux or planning to switch, but if you work in a company in Europe and its not an IT company, chances are they are using Windows still
the switch doesnt happen in a short window period. Now that the impulse is given, it will only grow. My country has ordered every administration to establish a transition plan. It s a begining none of them had already switch but we have to start somwhere. It s more than linux never had as a will to be massively adopted. We already have administration that were under linux before that, some will switch faster than other some could not be abble to do so. It’s public planning, and you should look at it under a 10 year window minimum and now it hasnt even been one year thoses efforts started
Sure, my comment was not meant as “don’t even bother”, it was to criticise only the phrase “we ditched it”.
Fucking wild to me that China is still so windows-dominated.
Windows is very cheap if you don’t pay for it, and all the backdoors are a feature for the powers that be.
Surely China can’t be fine with the US poking around their government computers? Or are they?
I don’t understand how another country can use another hostile country’s closed operating system for sensitive material.
FOSS in general took a very long time to be embraced by china, which feels weird
They are the same way the U.S. government is. Windows isn’t used for shit that’s actually important in either government.
I would guess that Microsoft has to comply to Chinese privacy and data laws, AND that China’s firewall also might block a lot of the telemetry.
I agree nonetheless. They should be using Linux a long time ago.
Honestly I thought Kylin would’ve been the default OS/ SOP in government computers
Hope that means more Linux drivers and hardware support for Chinese products in the future.
IIRC it was 15 years ago that China wanted to get rid of Winblows. I’ll believe they have gotten rid of it once they stop saying “planning to get of by”.
Isn’t Deepin the Chinese OS?
These companies have built Kylin and Unity Operating System, respectively, with the former evolving from FreeBSD into its own OS, and the latter being based on Deepin, which itself is based on Debian.
“Ditched windows”
Holy shit Linus has a strong RDF.
Had to look this up in urban dictionary. Reality Distortion Field, if anyone is curious.
It’s a term most associated with Steve Jobs back in the day.













