DKIM, DMARC, SPF, rDNS/PTR, EHLO… all correct and verified in the email “original source,” BY GOOGLE. Still goes to SPAM folder because **** you, apparently. I hate Google.
Tbh, out of all services I’ve seen people self-host, email is the most common one I’ve seen people describe as a bad idea™️.
I just chose a paid mail service (mailbox) and called it a day.
Same. It’s great for a technical challenge. Don’t do it for your primary email unless you’re ok losing emails and having them rejected a lot.
I do not understand all the people who are too afraid to try email hosting on their own that are out here discouraging people cause they want to sound right.
Email is hard cause people don’t host it enough and the few corps ignore the minority problems.
If more people shift back to hosting email the balance will tip again.
It is fine if you don’t want to host email but telling people not too without even trying yourself is anti-selfhost IMHO.
Even using a reputable hosting provider and personal domain will get you spam black holed these days
I wonder if there should be some kind of law or regulation around this. It’s an antitrust issue. Though no one in Congress would understand what this is.
There most certainly should. But Americans live in a corporatocracy.
Does gmail not do this kind of blocking outside of the US?
I’ve been hosting my e-mail for over 2 decades now, e-mail goes everywhere but gmail (despite working with them for years). They are doing it exactly so people stop doing it.
Soon not using a chromium browser will probably be considered a bad idea
I get what you mean, but this website specifically works completely fine on my Firefox (with uBlock). Please check your browser settings for things like disabled JavaScript.
Yeah everything is disabled its Firefox focus, everything always worked fine then like this past week all sorts of sites started showing that
I stopped thinking of any email as “private” regardless of where it’s hosted, when I realized that everyone I email uses Gmail anyways; so all my emails end up going to Google anyways.
It made me an email nihilist
I hate it. it was supposed to be open standard
Me and a couple other people have ran into on the internet have thought that we need to invent “email 2”, a clean slate implementation of email that serves it’s asynchronous long form and attachment friendly function while leaving behind Decades of Cruft . We can make it into an encrypted by default and have conveniences that we never had before. It might even be an actual useful thing instead of just being the thing you sign up for accounts with to get to 2fa codes and spam from websites you buy stuff from
Frankly, I’m rather shocked it hasn’t happened by now.
We’ve tried to bandaid over it with various weird things, but fundamentally SMTP is just weird.
I could easily imagine a domain having some SRV record to advertise “hey, I support NeoSMTP”, and peers switching to that instead, possibly pinning on successful NeoSMTP negotiation.
Get rid of a lot of the relaying which has not been useful in modern times and only a liability, and perhaps offer an https option to be less likely to be blocked (a TXT record to indicate url, and a node could declare their NeoSMTP entry point as https://mail.server/NeoSMTP/ or whatever works for them).
Oh, there have been plenty. The issue though is the classic “make a better standard, and now you have N+1 standards”.
Everything is wrong with SMTP. It’s still in use because it’s supported everywhere. Anything that wants to replace it either needs to entirely replace it in one fell swoop, or it needs to be backwards compatible.The result is that occasionally a new thing comes up, a handful of people try it but there isn’t critical mass to make other features really useful so it fades.
It’s fine if Legacy email Remains the thing that could spend whereas email 2 can be used for actual correspondence between people
You’ll have to walk me through what you mean by that. I’m not sure how what I’m hearing you say would improve anything.
Hence my references to DNS records in addition to MX to determine if an endpoint is SMTP only or better. For compatible interop.
But that’s the thing: now you haven’t made an email replacement, you’ve made email more complicated.
If you’re backwards compatible you need a very compelling feature to get people to switch, and using the feature is limited until people switch.
That’s how we added spf, dkim, dmarc and starttls.
The biggest difficulty is managing the layers of compatibility.
Honestly, it’s way past time to phase out email
What alternative do you propose that is not based on some proprietary solution?
I can’t speak for @ShutUpWesley@piefed.zip, but I boycott both Google and Microsoft. This means 95+% of prospective people, corps, and gov agencies I would exchange email with are not getting email from me. They are also not getting an email address out of me.
I have been done with email for nearly a decade now, mostly. So, to answer your question, I use fax and snail mail. Not joking. I feel liberated and don’t give a shit about postage or inconvenience. There is still that exceptional 5% or so who I will exchange email with, which does not have GAFAM in the loop.
(edit) should add that I give friends and family an XMPP address (of my own, but often I also give them an XMPP acct for themselves). Google bounced from XMPP a decade or so ago and AFAIK Microsoft has no XMPP service. So it’s mostly snail mail and fax for govs and corps. XMPP for people.
Any friends or family who resist XMPP are mostly stuffed. They can either proxy through a mutual friend or call me if they are local.
I have been done with email for nearly a decade now, mostly. So, to answer your question, I use fax and snail mail. Not joking. I feel liberated and don’t give a shit about postage or inconvenience. There is still that exceptional 5% or so who I will exchange email with, which does not have GAFAM in the loop.
I respect that. Reminds me of Donald Knuth, who stopped using email in 1990: " I have been a happy man ever since January 1, 1990, when I no longer had an email address"
Interesting to see his take on “e-mail” vs “email”. I bet he changes his tune on “email” vs “mail” – where gen-z has decided that it’s okay to save keystrokes by dropping the “e” because no one uses snail mail anymore. Indeed I am always disguested when someone says “send a mail”. I have to ask for clarification and they always confirm that mean email.
Indeed I am always disguested when someone says “send a mail”.
Maybe this is more common when English is not your native language; e.g. in Germany, “mail” is “Brief”, and “email” is just “E-Mail” or more short “mail”, because no one says “elektronischer Brief”.
Interesting to see his take on “e-mail” vs “email”.
So that might just be the origin of this language butchering you observed; as “email” means something different in various languages, lots of people who don’t speak English as their first language might have chosen to use “mail” for electronic mail. That is just speculation of course.
Oh I didn’t think of that. It’s native French speakers who use “mail” for “email” (when speaking english).
