The Gush Etzion Regional Council has acknowledged ritualistic child abuse allegations within its communities following investigations and survivor testimonies, shaking Israel's religious-Zionist sector.
My first reaction to this headline, coming from a german speaking country, was that it sounds like a neonazi hitpiece (it wouldn’t be the first time that neonazis would spread allegations like this).
The article quickly made me realize that those allegations have a lot of substance and credibility.
Any zionists here who wanna explain why i now have to say that some fucking nazis had a point?
Nazis didn’t have a point. The zionist project is a continuation of nazism, not judaism. Nazis also abused children in horrible ways. Ethnosupremacy leads to (and is a product of) corrosion of all morality and social norms
The zionist project is a continuation of nazism, not judaism.
The Zionist project perdates Nazism by several decades. It may be morally abhorrent, but it’s not Nazism. It’s a me-too version of European enthno-nationalism combined with colonialism, both of which were widespread in the 19th century. In Europe, ethno-nationalism led to nation-states coalescing such as Italy and Germany, but at the expense of ethnic minorities whose languages and cultures were suppressed. The colonialist variant led to oppression of indigenous peoples, especially in Africa, but to a lesser extent in the Caribbean, Polynesia and other parts of the world.
Within European colonialism, it was not unusual for members of disadvantaged groups to be the ones to become colonists (for example, the Catalans in Cuba, Baseques in Spanish colonies, or the Scots in far-flung corners of the British empire). Jews in 19th-century Europe were still subject to discrimination (though in most parts, their position would improve in the early 20th century until the fascists gained power), so it’s not surprising to see emigration to a new colony being perceived by some as an option.
So that’s the historical context. None of that makes it right, anymore than what the French did in Algeria was right. There’s a logic to ethno-nationalism and colonialism that makes oppression inevitable and genocide likely. But conflating Zionism with Nazism is neither correct nor helpful. It’s evil in its own way, but more in alignment with other ethno-nationalist and colonialist movements than Nazism. Claiming differently just allows objectors to point to the many unique features of Nazism to refute the claim, distracting from the real point, that such murderous injustice is an intrinsic feature of both ethno-nationalism and colonialism.
Zionism is as much representative of Judaism as NAZIsm is representative of all Germanic people.
Just because these ethno-Fascist White Supremacist groups claim they represent a specific ethnicity doesn’t mean they do.
Granted, Zionism has lasted a lot longer and there is a lot more parroting of the whole equating Judaism with Zionism in countries with a captured Press and/or Fascists traditions, so it’s understandable that many will actually believe that idea as pushed by Zionists, but there are plenty of Jewish voices saying that’s not so (curiously one which is called Jewish Voices For Peace and has just been deemed by a German Court an “Extremist Organization” for their criticism of Israel, which is interesting given the parallels between NAZIsm and Zionism).
Anyways, there is no such thing as a politican ideology or a country which represents an entire ethnicity - that would logically require that all people of a ethnicity are the same (i.e. “they’re all the same”) which is a foundational stone of Racism. I guess most people who believe the equivalence between Israel/Zionism and the Jewish People seem to have just accepted it a face value and never have really analysed it it down to its component parts and thus did not realize that such equation of one and the other relies on pure ethnic prejudice about people based on ethnicity.
What is the polling on % of American Jews supporting Israel? Or individual synagogues being pro or anti Zionist? One Jewish zionist I was talking to recently said Jewish Voices for Peace represented a tiny minority and was very dismissive about the extent of antizionism among Jews in general but I’m sure she has a bias.
I really can not believe you now have to admit the Zionists are Nazis to someone!!! I mean we are talking about the chosen people! Our precious chosenite, this is not possible!
My first reaction to this headline, coming from a german speaking country, was that it sounds like a neonazi hitpiece (it wouldn’t be the first time that neonazis would spread allegations like this).
The article quickly made me realize that those allegations have a lot of substance and credibility.
Any zionists here who wanna explain why i now have to say that some fucking nazis had a point?
Dive into the Epstein files, Ghislaine Maxwell and for bonus credit the Franklin incident. I wasn’t surprised sadly
ghislaine following in her fathers footstep with the whole zionism bit, ghislaine just went the whole extra mile.
Nazis didn’t have a point. The zionist project is a continuation of nazism, not judaism. Nazis also abused children in horrible ways. Ethnosupremacy leads to (and is a product of) corrosion of all morality and social norms
The Zionist project perdates Nazism by several decades. It may be morally abhorrent, but it’s not Nazism. It’s a me-too version of European enthno-nationalism combined with colonialism, both of which were widespread in the 19th century. In Europe, ethno-nationalism led to nation-states coalescing such as Italy and Germany, but at the expense of ethnic minorities whose languages and cultures were suppressed. The colonialist variant led to oppression of indigenous peoples, especially in Africa, but to a lesser extent in the Caribbean, Polynesia and other parts of the world.
Within European colonialism, it was not unusual for members of disadvantaged groups to be the ones to become colonists (for example, the Catalans in Cuba, Baseques in Spanish colonies, or the Scots in far-flung corners of the British empire). Jews in 19th-century Europe were still subject to discrimination (though in most parts, their position would improve in the early 20th century until the fascists gained power), so it’s not surprising to see emigration to a new colony being perceived by some as an option.
So that’s the historical context. None of that makes it right, anymore than what the French did in Algeria was right. There’s a logic to ethno-nationalism and colonialism that makes oppression inevitable and genocide likely. But conflating Zionism with Nazism is neither correct nor helpful. It’s evil in its own way, but more in alignment with other ethno-nationalist and colonialist movements than Nazism. Claiming differently just allows objectors to point to the many unique features of Nazism to refute the claim, distracting from the real point, that such murderous injustice is an intrinsic feature of both ethno-nationalism and colonialism.
What are some of these unique nazi features not present in zionism?
Zionism is as much representative of Judaism as NAZIsm is representative of all Germanic people.
Just because these ethno-Fascist White Supremacist groups claim they represent a specific ethnicity doesn’t mean they do.
Granted, Zionism has lasted a lot longer and there is a lot more parroting of the whole equating Judaism with Zionism in countries with a captured Press and/or Fascists traditions, so it’s understandable that many will actually believe that idea as pushed by Zionists, but there are plenty of Jewish voices saying that’s not so (curiously one which is called Jewish Voices For Peace and has just been deemed by a German Court an “Extremist Organization” for their criticism of Israel, which is interesting given the parallels between NAZIsm and Zionism).
Anyways, there is no such thing as a politican ideology or a country which represents an entire ethnicity - that would logically require that all people of a ethnicity are the same (i.e. “they’re all the same”) which is a foundational stone of Racism. I guess most people who believe the equivalence between Israel/Zionism and the Jewish People seem to have just accepted it a face value and never have really analysed it it down to its component parts and thus did not realize that such equation of one and the other relies on pure ethnic prejudice about people based on ethnicity.
What is the polling on % of American Jews supporting Israel? Or individual synagogues being pro or anti Zionist? One Jewish zionist I was talking to recently said Jewish Voices for Peace represented a tiny minority and was very dismissive about the extent of antizionism among Jews in general but I’m sure she has a bias.
I really can not believe you now have to admit the Zionists are Nazis to someone!!! I mean we are talking about the chosen people! Our precious chosenite, this is not possible!
Won’t anyone think of the childr… no wait.