Long as it’s still the man’s fault for desiring intimacy, am I right or am I right ladies?
The assumption that it’s always a neglectful husband causing marital issues is incredibly demoralizing, especially when the response to “but what if it isn’t a neglectful husband” is this sort of thing. Just more reasons why the man is the one being unreasonable.
Look, no man is “owed” their wife’s affections or physical intimacy. But it is often an important piece of an adult romantic relationship, and it’s not unreasonable for a member of that relationship to have some feelings about things changing over time, or suddenly for that matter.
The fault isn’t with desiring intimacy. Do you think women never desire intimacy? Do you think married women who have brought life into the world never want intimacy?
Men also can’t expect their wives to be open and available for sex if there isn’t a certain level of respect. Not being involved with child rearing and the house is showing his wife that he doesn’t care to help. That he doesn’t care enough about HER to be willing to help. THAT is usually a key part in not feeling loved and in turn killing the intimacy.
Please reread the chain of comments. This is specifically about situations where there is respect, involvement with child rearing, and with household running/chores/etc.
Holy fuck, this thread is a circle jerk of “God, I know her vagina was stitched shut and she cant get enough calories but, damn it, I wanna fuck after she rocks the kid to sleep.”
It isn’t her fucking feelings you divorce demanding loser.
That is a complete and total strawman. No one has said anything about such clearly unreasonable shit like wanting sex immediately after a newborn, or while the woman is recovering/post-partum/etc.
How is anyone supposed to have a calm and respectful conversation about this stuff when the moment you even brush up against it slightly, the “men are all horrible awful pigs and it’s all their fault” brigade comes out in full force?
I’m sorry so very many people have encountered so many god awful men as they have. I am, as best as I can, doing what I can to not be one of them.
And there are still intimacy issues in my relationship. Am I not allowed to talk about this because so many men have been awful that it’s just verboten? Fuck everything about that.
I don’t think some of you incels are actually married.
I have multiple friends that nearly died, were hospitalized, etc. My wife went anemic and suffered a number of other ailments. Hell, not even carrying but the act of breastfeeding requires a metric fuckton of calories.
I will never know what women go through because I’m not one of them.
You seem proud to carry the baton of permanently knowing even less.
I don’t think you know me at all, and you need to stop attacking shadows.
Is that enough evidence for you? My hand with my wedding ring, a few of my daughter’s toes at the top, and an old school style hand written timestamped note.
My two year old daughter has been having awful allergies since last night, when I slept on the floor in her room so I could comfort her when she kept waking up coughing throughout the night despite having doctor approved antihistamines, some “all natural”/home remedy cough syrup, and an albuterol rescue inhaler. I used the snot sucker, warm water to help cut the mucus, kept her propped up to help with breathing and mucus drainage. My wife got a full night of rest. No baby monitor, no interruptions.
This morning I’m also solo for around four and a half hours while my wife goes and does a weekly thing that helps keep her real passion (that she can’t do for a living unfortunately) alive.
I’m not looking for an award for doing the husband and father thing. I’m not expecting anything from her for this, and I’m not expecting anything from the internet or the comment section at large. I don’t need fucking “good boy points”.
What I need is for chucklefucks like you to just fucking stop. Stop telling every man with issues in their relationship that it is always without a doubt their fault. That they clearly don’t understand. That they’re having unreasonable expectations. That there is absolutely 0% chance they’re anything but wrong. Just take a step back and leave room for not even bare minimum understanding or sympathy, but just keeping your damn mouth shut if all you have is throwing shade.
Long as we’re throwing the “I’m actually a better more understanding husband than you and you don’t understand childbirth” shit around, let me slap my metaphorical cock on the table.
My wife hemorrhaged two thirds of the blood in her body during childbirth. The first moments of holding my child were struck through with concern that I was losing my wife. The nurses had the god damn crash cart ready.
Your insight into the birthing process is not unique.
I’ll say it again. This entire subthread has been born from the condition “what if the man wasn’t a shitpile”, and 90% of the responses have been bunch of people incapable of accepting that as a possibility, building strawmen, and then don quixote-ing themselves into a sense of moral superiority. Just fucking stop.
Eucerin makes one of the strongest on the market. And you can dial it up or down based on the one you get. Highly recommended if you live in a dry climate like I do.
Stop telling every man with issues in their relationship that it is always without a doubt their fault. That they clearly don’t understand. That they’re having unreasonable expectations.
Holy shit, I just connected the dots here.
You don’t get enough sex cuz your wife is healing, and you’re essentially unloading the baggage on her?
Honestly I have zero knowledge of whether or not your wife is a problem in a relationship. I can tell just by listening to you that you are a sizable problem in your own relationship and have no idea.
The truth is that in the 50 years I’ve walked this God forsaken planet I’ve never once sat back to think about the injustice is committed against me as a man, or the perceptions against me. Frankly they don’t materialize in my daily life because I’m not a piece of shit. I don’t ever sit down and worry about whether or not people think I’m an ideal man or not.
Get a strange that you’re so awful and simultaneously so sensitive about it.
Well I don’t know if that’s worse: you being an incel or not. Minimally you sound emotionally abusive if your biggest concern about your postpartum wife is not her well-being and is more geared towards whether or not she’s serving up that delicious pussy.
My wife hemorrhaged two thirds of the blood in her body during childbirth. The first moments of holding my child were struck through with concern that I was losing my wife. The nurses had the god damn crash cart ready.
Never mind. If you’re admitting that you’re one of the worst human beings imaginable, kudos to you.
And I’ll go straight home and fuck my wife thank you. Despite your beautiful handwriting and eloquence, I have better things to do and would rather please her.
Holy fuck. You manage to perfectly embody the precise level of hyper-masculine manosphere/fascist in training bullshit in this thread.
Grok is an LLM. It just regurgitates what it is fed in a way that humans find appealing, not anything particularly meaningful. And in this case it was trained on fascist talking points. And has produced quotes about how much it likes Hitler and would exterminate all Jewish people if it preserved Elon.
I speak for all humanity when I say “get bent, Nazi.”
None of that is true, some guy mentioned his frustration about it and you freaks dogpiled him accusing him of being some unreasonable borderline rapist with ZERO reason to believe so, other than gender.
You’re being absurdly misandrist and completely harming whatever point you think you’re making by just being rude and accusatory, then acting like the victim when that attitude is unwanted. It’s frankly disgusting and is the kind of behavior that helps fuel the young and impressionable boys lurch towards people like Tate.
Its definitely not always the mans fault but we would do well to understand that men don’t have the same needs when it comes to maintaining a long term sexual relationship.
Women generally need to feel a sense of emotional security, trust and connection for a long term relationship to thrive, especially in the bedroom. Men would like this too, but they don’t necessarily need it to continue a sexual relationship.
Unfortunately in many (perhaps most) relationships women do feel that a disproportionate share of household and childcare duties fall on them, which erodes at those core foundations of a healthy long term relationship.
Is it all on men to work this out? No. But if they want to take an active approach to maintaining the health of their relationship, meeting their partners emotional needs has the highest likelihood is doing that and keeping the bedroom alive.
Women like to be physically intimate when they feel safe, understood and appreciated. Men should ask for the same in their partners even if we’re conditioned not to ‘need’ all of that in the same way.
I think your point about differing needs is really the core of all of the friction. At least when we’re not talking about the worthless kind of husband demanding shit and not actually being present etc.
I can only speak for myself, but the presence or lack of physical intimacy has a massive effect on whether or not I feel: valued, appreciated, or desired in a relationship. Lack makes me start thinking things like “Am I your partner, or just the providertm? Do you actually want me around when I’m not providing value, doing things for you? Is this a job or a relationship? Are you no longer attracted to me? Do you even really want to be near me, spend time with me?”
And note I keep using the phrase “physical intimacy”. I’m not a prude, if I meant sex I’d say it directly. That’s part, but not all of it.
When we potato on the couch, has it literally been months since my partner sat next to or leaned on me? Are they literally sitting on the opposite side, as far as they can possibly get away? Ok, is it a “I don’t feel safe” thing? No, they’ll sit with me when I ask, or when I go to them, but never of their own accord.
Stuff like that builds up over time, and personally, when I talk about stuff like this I’m talking patterns of behaviour over years, not “wah wah I couldn’t get the nookie when she was trying to figure out how to get a newborn to sleep through the night”.
So it’s infuriating when the horde comes out to insist the only reason there could possibly be problems is if the guy is a shitpile, and that there’s always layers upon layers for why it’s never okay for a man to feel anything about a lack of physical intimacy. For fucks sake I do my part, I do everything I can to meet her emotional and other needs. Am I not allowed to feel like I’m being treated as a roommate rather than a partner? Am I not allowed to feel like I’m not desired? What about my own emotional needs? No, because so many shitpile men exist I guess.
I get where you’re coming from and I’ve personally gone through many of the feelings you’re describing. As men we sometimes feel that (physical) intimacy is how our partners communicate to us our ‘value’ in a way. Some of that is toxic cultural norms but there is also just fundamental differences in how intimacy is perceived between men and women in long term relationships.
As you’ve aptly stated, the difference is men often feel that intimacy is part of how they are made to feel appreciated and valued while, in my experience, women need to feel validated, appreciated and valued emotionally as the soil in which a persistent desire for physical intimacy grows.
I am by no means diminishing the experience of men or trying to say its all on them. I have literally posed the questions that youve asked in past relationships and while they understood where I was coming from it never fixed the rift. Only after I took the initiave to take interest in and prioritize their emotional security and trust in me did the dynamic change from a diminishing interest in intimacy and rare or less frequent initiation to the opposite of that.
I’m just speaking on my own experience, particularly regarding long term relationships. Hopefully it’s helpful to someone out there.
I wish I could be that picky lol, if I had to feel safe, understood, and appreciated I’d still be a virgin lmao. If I ever told a woman “no I want to feel safe, understood, and appreciated” I’d be called an incel. At best she’d get the ick and ghost me, at the most generous interpretation because “if I need that from her how am I going to provide it to her” (but I honestly think it’s because desiring “safety and understanding” isn’t “manly” and “appreciation” “what do you mean…patriarchy…women are the ones who aren’t appreciated…yadda yadda.” Sort of the same deal as the classic “I want a sensitive man who cries” and then the second you do she loses any semblance of respect for you as a person.)
I hear what you’re saying but I’d say that not all women are like that and these conversations are really meant for someone you’re prepared to have a deep commitment with, not necessarily early on in a relationship. There are a ton of toxic attachment patterns and cultural norms in our society that are challenging to navigate but these tend to matter less as a relationship evolves into a long term one.
I’m fine. What’s wrong with the rest of you? When’s the last time you saw actual people do anything other than devolve into a who hates whom the most contest? Because I’m drawing a complete blank.
If your hormones tell you to punch someone you should be reasonable enough not to do it.
Can you name the punching hormone for me? My degree is in a more technical field, so I was under the impression that they regulated tissues and organs.
That’s the thing. It doesn’t. You’re in control of What you do as a grown adult irrespective of your mood. Your mistaking yourself with toddlers who will get pissed off and throw punches.
My God, the more I hear from you sad sons of bitches the more afraid for women out there that I am.
You know, this sort of attitude is why women are consistently afraid of people that carry our gender markers. Grow the fuck up and learn to be an adult.
Aside:
If we were talking pheromones and not hormones then yes they would trigger specific behaviors in members of our species. However our species is not known to carry pheromones and after all of the years of biological research my suspicion is we would have discovered them if they existed.
Well atp, it’s just genetics and hormones, which isn’t really her fault either lol
Long as it’s still the man’s fault for desiring intimacy, am I right or am I right ladies?
The assumption that it’s always a neglectful husband causing marital issues is incredibly demoralizing, especially when the response to “but what if it isn’t a neglectful husband” is this sort of thing. Just more reasons why the man is the one being unreasonable.
Look, no man is “owed” their wife’s affections or physical intimacy. But it is often an important piece of an adult romantic relationship, and it’s not unreasonable for a member of that relationship to have some feelings about things changing over time, or suddenly for that matter.
The fault isn’t with desiring intimacy. Do you think women never desire intimacy? Do you think married women who have brought life into the world never want intimacy?
Men also can’t expect their wives to be open and available for sex if there isn’t a certain level of respect. Not being involved with child rearing and the house is showing his wife that he doesn’t care to help. That he doesn’t care enough about HER to be willing to help. THAT is usually a key part in not feeling loved and in turn killing the intimacy.
Please reread the chain of comments. This is specifically about situations where there is respect, involvement with child rearing, and with household running/chores/etc.
But that’s impossible because men bad and women perfect and always the victim.
Holy fuck, this thread is a circle jerk of “God, I know her vagina was stitched shut and she cant get enough calories but, damn it, I wanna fuck after she rocks the kid to sleep.”
It isn’t her fucking feelings you divorce demanding loser.
That is a complete and total strawman. No one has said anything about such clearly unreasonable shit like wanting sex immediately after a newborn, or while the woman is recovering/post-partum/etc.
How is anyone supposed to have a calm and respectful conversation about this stuff when the moment you even brush up against it slightly, the “men are all horrible awful pigs and it’s all their fault” brigade comes out in full force?
I’m sorry so very many people have encountered so many god awful men as they have. I am, as best as I can, doing what I can to not be one of them.
And there are still intimacy issues in my relationship. Am I not allowed to talk about this because so many men have been awful that it’s just verboten? Fuck everything about that.
I don’t think some of you incels are actually married.
I have multiple friends that nearly died, were hospitalized, etc. My wife went anemic and suffered a number of other ailments. Hell, not even carrying but the act of breastfeeding requires a metric fuckton of calories.
I will never know what women go through because I’m not one of them.
You seem proud to carry the baton of permanently knowing even less.
Have a pleasant morning.
I don’t think you know me at all, and you need to stop attacking shadows.
Is that enough evidence for you? My hand with my wedding ring, a few of my daughter’s toes at the top, and an old school style hand written timestamped note.
My two year old daughter has been having awful allergies since last night, when I slept on the floor in her room so I could comfort her when she kept waking up coughing throughout the night despite having doctor approved antihistamines, some “all natural”/home remedy cough syrup, and an albuterol rescue inhaler. I used the snot sucker, warm water to help cut the mucus, kept her propped up to help with breathing and mucus drainage. My wife got a full night of rest. No baby monitor, no interruptions.
This morning I’m also solo for around four and a half hours while my wife goes and does a weekly thing that helps keep her real passion (that she can’t do for a living unfortunately) alive.
I’m not looking for an award for doing the husband and father thing. I’m not expecting anything from her for this, and I’m not expecting anything from the internet or the comment section at large. I don’t need fucking “good boy points”.
What I need is for chucklefucks like you to just fucking stop. Stop telling every man with issues in their relationship that it is always without a doubt their fault. That they clearly don’t understand. That they’re having unreasonable expectations. That there is absolutely 0% chance they’re anything but wrong. Just take a step back and leave room for not even bare minimum understanding or sympathy, but just keeping your damn mouth shut if all you have is throwing shade.
Long as we’re throwing the “I’m actually a better more understanding husband than you and you don’t understand childbirth” shit around, let me slap my metaphorical cock on the table.
My wife hemorrhaged two thirds of the blood in her body during childbirth. The first moments of holding my child were struck through with concern that I was losing my wife. The nurses had the god damn crash cart ready.
Your insight into the birthing process is not unique.
I’ll say it again. This entire subthread has been born from the condition “what if the man wasn’t a shitpile”, and 90% of the responses have been bunch of people incapable of accepting that as a possibility, building strawmen, and then don quixote-ing themselves into a sense of moral superiority. Just fucking stop.
One guy to another, your hands look soft. What type of lotion do you use?
Eucerin makes one of the strongest on the market. And you can dial it up or down based on the one you get. Highly recommended if you live in a dry climate like I do.
Holy shit, I just connected the dots here.
You don’t get enough sex cuz your wife is healing, and you’re essentially unloading the baggage on her?
Honestly I have zero knowledge of whether or not your wife is a problem in a relationship. I can tell just by listening to you that you are a sizable problem in your own relationship and have no idea.
The truth is that in the 50 years I’ve walked this God forsaken planet I’ve never once sat back to think about the injustice is committed against me as a man, or the perceptions against me. Frankly they don’t materialize in my daily life because I’m not a piece of shit. I don’t ever sit down and worry about whether or not people think I’m an ideal man or not.
Get a strange that you’re so awful and simultaneously so sensitive about it.
Well I don’t know if that’s worse: you being an incel or not. Minimally you sound emotionally abusive if your biggest concern about your postpartum wife is not her well-being and is more geared towards whether or not she’s serving up that delicious pussy.
Never mind. If you’re admitting that you’re one of the worst human beings imaginable, kudos to you.
And I’ll go straight home and fuck my wife thank you. Despite your beautiful handwriting and eloquence, I have better things to do and would rather please her.
Note the last couple of words.
Oh my God you seem like the kind of person that needs grok to explain posts to you because you’re so utterly incapable of basic reading comprehension
Holy fuck. You manage to perfectly embody the precise level of hyper-masculine manosphere/fascist in training bullshit in this thread.
Grok is an LLM. It just regurgitates what it is fed in a way that humans find appealing, not anything particularly meaningful. And in this case it was trained on fascist talking points. And has produced quotes about how much it likes Hitler and would exterminate all Jewish people if it preserved Elon.
I speak for all humanity when I say “get bent, Nazi.”
What a way to validate OP by completely misreading what he said.
Is this another chud? Nice!
It’s really gross in here.
Is it so shocking that there are many different reasons that a woman may not want sex as often after having a baby?
Men in here acting like women are punishing them by withholding sex ffs.
None of that is true, some guy mentioned his frustration about it and you freaks dogpiled him accusing him of being some unreasonable borderline rapist with ZERO reason to believe so, other than gender.
You’re being absurdly misandrist and completely harming whatever point you think you’re making by just being rude and accusatory, then acting like the victim when that attitude is unwanted. It’s frankly disgusting and is the kind of behavior that helps fuel the young and impressionable boys lurch towards people like Tate.
Women have bodily autonomy. Sorry that deflates you. And a woman post-pardum? Fuck the hell off.
She doesn’t need to:
No one is dogpiling. It is a shitty sentiment, by a shitty person (like you).
And then downvote the living shit out of them because “damn it, your job is to get me laid!”
Its definitely not always the mans fault but we would do well to understand that men don’t have the same needs when it comes to maintaining a long term sexual relationship.
Women generally need to feel a sense of emotional security, trust and connection for a long term relationship to thrive, especially in the bedroom. Men would like this too, but they don’t necessarily need it to continue a sexual relationship.
Unfortunately in many (perhaps most) relationships women do feel that a disproportionate share of household and childcare duties fall on them, which erodes at those core foundations of a healthy long term relationship.
Is it all on men to work this out? No. But if they want to take an active approach to maintaining the health of their relationship, meeting their partners emotional needs has the highest likelihood is doing that and keeping the bedroom alive.
Women like to be physically intimate when they feel safe, understood and appreciated. Men should ask for the same in their partners even if we’re conditioned not to ‘need’ all of that in the same way.
I think your point about differing needs is really the core of all of the friction. At least when we’re not talking about the worthless kind of husband demanding shit and not actually being present etc.
I can only speak for myself, but the presence or lack of physical intimacy has a massive effect on whether or not I feel: valued, appreciated, or desired in a relationship. Lack makes me start thinking things like “Am I your partner, or just the providertm? Do you actually want me around when I’m not providing value, doing things for you? Is this a job or a relationship? Are you no longer attracted to me? Do you even really want to be near me, spend time with me?”
And note I keep using the phrase “physical intimacy”. I’m not a prude, if I meant sex I’d say it directly. That’s part, but not all of it.
When we potato on the couch, has it literally been months since my partner sat next to or leaned on me? Are they literally sitting on the opposite side, as far as they can possibly get away? Ok, is it a “I don’t feel safe” thing? No, they’ll sit with me when I ask, or when I go to them, but never of their own accord.
Stuff like that builds up over time, and personally, when I talk about stuff like this I’m talking patterns of behaviour over years, not “wah wah I couldn’t get the nookie when she was trying to figure out how to get a newborn to sleep through the night”.
So it’s infuriating when the horde comes out to insist the only reason there could possibly be problems is if the guy is a shitpile, and that there’s always layers upon layers for why it’s never okay for a man to feel anything about a lack of physical intimacy. For fucks sake I do my part, I do everything I can to meet her emotional and other needs. Am I not allowed to feel like I’m being treated as a roommate rather than a partner? Am I not allowed to feel like I’m not desired? What about my own emotional needs? No, because so many shitpile men exist I guess.
I get where you’re coming from and I’ve personally gone through many of the feelings you’re describing. As men we sometimes feel that (physical) intimacy is how our partners communicate to us our ‘value’ in a way. Some of that is toxic cultural norms but there is also just fundamental differences in how intimacy is perceived between men and women in long term relationships.
As you’ve aptly stated, the difference is men often feel that intimacy is part of how they are made to feel appreciated and valued while, in my experience, women need to feel validated, appreciated and valued emotionally as the soil in which a persistent desire for physical intimacy grows.
I am by no means diminishing the experience of men or trying to say its all on them. I have literally posed the questions that youve asked in past relationships and while they understood where I was coming from it never fixed the rift. Only after I took the initiave to take interest in and prioritize their emotional security and trust in me did the dynamic change from a diminishing interest in intimacy and rare or less frequent initiation to the opposite of that.
I’m just speaking on my own experience, particularly regarding long term relationships. Hopefully it’s helpful to someone out there.
I wish I could be that picky lol, if I had to feel safe, understood, and appreciated I’d still be a virgin lmao. If I ever told a woman “no I want to feel safe, understood, and appreciated” I’d be called an incel. At best she’d get the ick and ghost me, at the most generous interpretation because “if I need that from her how am I going to provide it to her” (but I honestly think it’s because desiring “safety and understanding” isn’t “manly” and “appreciation” “what do you mean…patriarchy…women are the ones who aren’t appreciated…yadda yadda.” Sort of the same deal as the classic “I want a sensitive man who cries” and then the second you do she loses any semblance of respect for you as a person.)
I hear what you’re saying but I’d say that not all women are like that and these conversations are really meant for someone you’re prepared to have a deep commitment with, not necessarily early on in a relationship. There are a ton of toxic attachment patterns and cultural norms in our society that are challenging to navigate but these tend to matter less as a relationship evolves into a long term one.
Is affection a thing that even exists?
No. So stop wishing for it and do something productive.
damn dude, you ok?
I’m fine. What’s wrong with the rest of you? When’s the last time you saw actual people do anything other than devolve into a who hates whom the most contest? Because I’m drawing a complete blank.
That probably happens somewhere not on the Internet
If that’s your perspective, is anyone ever responsible for anything? Or is it all just genetics and hormones
What stupid take.
If your hormones tell you to punch someone you should be reasonable enough not to do it.
If your hormones make you not horny, you shouldn’t force yourself to have sex.
Those are two totally different things.
Can you name the punching hormone for me? My degree is in a more technical field, so I was under the impression that they regulated tissues and organs.
Testosterone?
Adrenaline.
One of the many hormones that both sexes produce?
Guess that explains why the incidence of physical abuce, and divorce, is highest in lesbian couples.
Wait, for real?
It isn’t cis hetero men?
I definitely wouldn’t have expected that one, but the social sciences are some of the farthest things from my training.
Good try but also wrong. Testosterone is an anabolic that regulates muscle growth mood and other things.
I have seen nothing scientific to indicate that there is a punching mechanism associated with it.
How is it supposed to tell you to punch besides mood?
That’s the thing. It doesn’t. You’re in control of What you do as a grown adult irrespective of your mood. Your mistaking yourself with toddlers who will get pissed off and throw punches.
My God, the more I hear from you sad sons of bitches the more afraid for women out there that I am.
You know, this sort of attitude is why women are consistently afraid of people that carry our gender markers. Grow the fuck up and learn to be an adult.
Aside: If we were talking pheromones and not hormones then yes they would trigger specific behaviors in members of our species. However our species is not known to carry pheromones and after all of the years of biological research my suspicion is we would have discovered them if they existed.
OK? One can be reasonable enough to not punch people despite the punching hormone telling you to do it.
So it’s his fault or it’s not her fault?