Rulers also knew that if they ended up behind other countries they would end up crushed by economics or times of war. Technology was vital long before democracy got its hold in the modern age. The industrial revolution happened under the British monarchy, after all. Did they block that development? The printing press was also created under the holy Roman empire, long before capitalism, and we can see how well that went with many monarchies trying to suppress it. Maybe they tried, but they failed.
Don’t look at the answer starting from capitalism and working backwards. History is much more nuanced than “the system we have right now is the best and is what caused good things”. It very well could be that the system itself is mostly coincidental, or due to parallell historical factors.
And technology would have been developed no matter the economic or political system. As it did, and as it does. As long as people researching new things get sufficient time and resources to do so. And they do, and did, because being more technologically advanced makes you stronger compared to others.
I mean, hell, saying capitalism is what solely incentivized development is completely ignoring how many resources state actors are pouring into science even today. From the US military to the global academic network. It wasn’t very different back then, at the start of capitalism. Philosophy traces back to ancient Greece, after all, and exists everywhere in between.
My whole point is that saying that “capitalism gave us political power” is the too simple answer. And I argue against it, because it posits capitalism as this objective good that should stay when that is not certain. And it may well be what is actually standing in the way of democracy. Maybe political power would have been spread to the people quicker if it were not for capitalism, hard to say, because capitalism quickly entrenched itself in the whole world. But history can give us clues.
In the end, it’s important to not necessarily attribute too much to capitalism, because, well, we live in, and have been, surrounded by capitalism our whole lives. With no part of the world really escaping it. We don’t have anything else to compare to, as we only have one world. We are always looking from a capitalistic point of view by default. But maybe there is more to everything than just capitalism.
Don’t look at the answer starting from capitalism and working backwards.
I’ll be looking at what modern political and economic science tells us if you don’t mind.
My whole point is that saying that “capitalism gave us political power” is the too simple answer.
Yes, because we’re on a forum. This is not a place to write long essays and lecture people as if they came to you, begging for knowledge. In fact, I think it’s arrogant and disrespectful to treat people like that. Especially if we consider the fact that I’ve already agreed with you that this process was not simple and it isn’t certainly good or bad. It feels like you didn’t even read my post.
“the system we have right now is the best and is what caused good things”.
it posits capitalism as this objective good
I’ve never said any of that. I think that you have a lot of ideas and impressions from other arguments that you’ve been involved in. And you keep arguing with these ideas, adding more to what I said than there was. I’m not really interested in that kind of a conversation, sorry. I see that this topic bothers you, but please entertain yourself not at my expense.
Rulers also knew that if they ended up behind other countries they would end up crushed by economics or times of war. Technology was vital long before democracy got its hold in the modern age. The industrial revolution happened under the British monarchy, after all. Did they block that development? The printing press was also created under the holy Roman empire, long before capitalism, and we can see how well that went with many monarchies trying to suppress it. Maybe they tried, but they failed.
Don’t look at the answer starting from capitalism and working backwards. History is much more nuanced than “the system we have right now is the best and is what caused good things”. It very well could be that the system itself is mostly coincidental, or due to parallell historical factors.
And technology would have been developed no matter the economic or political system. As it did, and as it does. As long as people researching new things get sufficient time and resources to do so. And they do, and did, because being more technologically advanced makes you stronger compared to others.
I mean, hell, saying capitalism is what solely incentivized development is completely ignoring how many resources state actors are pouring into science even today. From the US military to the global academic network. It wasn’t very different back then, at the start of capitalism. Philosophy traces back to ancient Greece, after all, and exists everywhere in between.
My whole point is that saying that “capitalism gave us political power” is the too simple answer. And I argue against it, because it posits capitalism as this objective good that should stay when that is not certain. And it may well be what is actually standing in the way of democracy. Maybe political power would have been spread to the people quicker if it were not for capitalism, hard to say, because capitalism quickly entrenched itself in the whole world. But history can give us clues.
In the end, it’s important to not necessarily attribute too much to capitalism, because, well, we live in, and have been, surrounded by capitalism our whole lives. With no part of the world really escaping it. We don’t have anything else to compare to, as we only have one world. We are always looking from a capitalistic point of view by default. But maybe there is more to everything than just capitalism.
I’ll be looking at what modern political and economic science tells us if you don’t mind.
Yes, because we’re on a forum. This is not a place to write long essays and lecture people as if they came to you, begging for knowledge. In fact, I think it’s arrogant and disrespectful to treat people like that. Especially if we consider the fact that I’ve already agreed with you that this process was not simple and it isn’t certainly good or bad. It feels like you didn’t even read my post.
I’ve never said any of that. I think that you have a lot of ideas and impressions from other arguments that you’ve been involved in. And you keep arguing with these ideas, adding more to what I said than there was. I’m not really interested in that kind of a conversation, sorry. I see that this topic bothers you, but please entertain yourself not at my expense.