Is Linux viable as a mobile os yet?
I just hope that the Graphene devs continue to support the last supported versions of Android that allow installing apks.
I couldn’t be happier with my P7 that has been running Graphene since day one. Zero Google. Zero problems
Christ. Some cheap phone for calls, SMS and banking. Some other device for literally everything else, perhaps I can get it with a headphone jack again.
This is the risk of “trusted computing” architectures. Who is governing the “trusted” part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that’s how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I’m not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years … That’s why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice… Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there’s a signature to ensure that the app hasn’t been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it’s security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?.. Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We’ve been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That’s how SSL works, that’s how the Internet works, that’s how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like… Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that’s trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it’s own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
This is an android 16 feature, scheduled for sept 2026 “prerelease” and 2027 rollout. I expect/hope some phones will have a setting to disable “the security”. If not, there is great opportunty for high end hardware linux first phones, with good android emulation software.
What even is the reason for this? All this is going to accomplish is less Android market share.
So yeah we’ll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we’ll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo
When it comes to the current final frontier, Linux phones, what brands/models would be the best option? Or are you all really recommending iPhones?
This is about Revanced, isn’t it? They failed to kill it via the YouTube backend so now it’s down to lock down the os and browsers as much as possible to keep feeding people the juicy ads.
If they only cared about thwarting malware they could have just relied on code signing via public certificate authorities, like with binaries on Windows.
I find it very strange how many people in the comments here think the solution is to buy an iPhone. Maybe you are all just rich and can afford to spend $1000+ based on vibes, but considering the Android market still has a massive value advantage I’m not really sure what the point of switching is. This all feels very similar to how some Westerners decided Chinese tech and even the Chinese government were suddenly problem-free just because Americans elected Trump for a second time.
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
What… the Fuck?
I have LineageOS on my second phone, so the issue doesn’t apply to custom ROMs, as the developers assured me. On my main phone, however, I still have the stock ROM because it’s a new and expensive phone, and there are no custom ROMs for it yet, especially as it’s a MediaTek. If they try to block sideloading, it would be a good time to report it to the European Union.
This defeats the entire purpose of me having android
Like I’m just going to switch to an iPhone now. Not because Apple is any better, but because I have more family with them.
They took away our SD cards, they took away our removable batteries, they took away our headphone jacks. Now they’re taking away side loading apps, and that’s it. I’m done. The death of android.
Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027.
Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot).
As for the headphone jack, I’m afraid it won’t come back. Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days (I got both, so I know from experience), and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference. And it’s yet another device to keep charged all the time.
USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it’s more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I’m saying this having just had a gig and the MD’s phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.
Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.
Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days
Disputable.
- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
I liked the whole not having to charge headphones thing more than anything.
I liked being able to accidentally brush up against my headphones or putting them down for a moment without them turning off my music.
i’m a musician, have a trained ear and even with mild tinnitus have yet to see any BT audio transmission that matches the fidelity of cables.
That aspect did pop into my head but I am not qualified to comment as I never use any wireless headsets, nor are my ears trained enough for fully appreciating hi-fi quality.
BT 6.1 introduced Randomized RPA (Resolvable Private Address) which should help with some of the security issues. That said I wouldn’t expect to see headphones implementing 6.1 for quite some time. It just came out in May.
I have two devices, one is my phone, and one only plays music. I only ever use my phone as my phone, and my music device as my music device in my car, and both run over Bluetooth.
It is a crapshoot as to which role my car will assign to which device. Sometimes I have to put my phone in airplane mode so that the car won’t try to assign it the media player role in Bluetooth settings. I’m not impressed.
check the Bluetooth settings on your phone. on mine, I can disallow roles that a peripheral could get, like media audio, phone calls, etc
That has a lot more to do with the car itself.
If you ever want to talk about a shit OS…
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
Not a major drawback, IMO.
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
True, but I haven’t lost any in the something like 6 years I’ve been using them.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
What’s your threat model? Who’s going to be attacking your security via your headphones? What happens if they succeed?
IMO this is a pretty ridiculous drawback, it’s like saying “wired headphones are worse because the wire can be used as a garrote”, which is true, but not an actual drawback for 99.999% of people.
transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
So what?
IMO the drawbacks of wired headphones are:
- The cable often gets tangled, and it’s a pain in the ass to untangle it
- The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
- The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
- Even when the cable isn’t tangled, just arranging the wire so it’s out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
- Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it’s out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
- Because of the wire, you’re limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that’s more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you’re listening to.
- If you’re doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can’t put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you’re moving to the sink to wash them off.
- In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that’s convenient.
The headphone wire is a potential personal security vulnerability as a ninja can use it to garrote you.
The drawbacks for a wireless headset are:
- They tend to have batteries that can’t be replaced, so eventually they lose their ability to hold a charge and need to be replaced. It can get really annoying to use them when the batteries are starting to fail and they hold less than an hour of charge.
- They tend to be much more expensive than wired headphones.
- Wireless buds are easier to lose, and easier to drop. If you drop them they can bounce and roll under things, or into the street or who knows where.
- They do eventually run out of charge, and you do have to charge them, and sometimes they can be low on charge / out of charge when you want to use them.
- There’s a fair amount of lag, which can be annoying when you’re trying to skip commercials on podcasts and so-on.
they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separatel
If you wish for ANC you’ll need a battery anyway, and most people do want ANC these days
they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
I’m loosing my wired headphone far more often, for a simple reason: wireless ones having a battery allows me to make them beep, given they are near, of course.
bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Sure, and so are wired headphone as they act as an antenna, broadcasting to anyone with an appropriate receptor anything you say and/or hear.
As for the implementation vulnerabilities, at least it can be patched.transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Sure, but is it that much of a problem? It would take years (if not decades) of constant listening to even use a dollar of electricity for wireless headphones. Even if you factor the data transmission from the phone into that.
And wired headphone are not energy neutral either. They works by pulling energy from the phone battery.I prefer the wireless headphones ease of use to headphone I have to untangle every time I want to use them. I keep my wired ones for home uses.
You can have both or you can deny people who like wired. You are choosing denial.
Those who like wired aren’t out of option either. Adapters exists, are cheap, and have often a far better audio quality than integrated ports due to not being as size constrained as the main body itself, and being further from interferences. You can quite easily find some that allows to charge your phone at the same time (even if the usb-c norm do not allows it on paper).
- they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
I’ll give you that, but my bone conduction headset lasts a few days with the amount I use
- they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
Meh. I’ve put corded earbuds in my pocket and probably worn them out faster that way. Bluetooth headsets I tend to leave on (much to my wife’s annoyance) and that makes them last longer in my experience.
- bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
Aha, that van outside must be tapping into me listening to The Dandy Warhols! I knew it! (In all seriousness, if security is that critical you probably shouldn’t be doing whatever it is over WiFi, which is pretty much unavoidable with a phone)
- transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
Are we really talking about saving energy here? That’s like… Moisture in the bucket levels. Not even a drop in the bucket
I agree with you, even if you are downvoted. I’ve wrecked more in-ear buds by (non-replaceable) broken cable than i can count, while i’m on my 3rd bluetooth headphone in about 10 years - i lost none of them, and the second one is still around as backup.
The security is a thing that can be patched if it pops up and is only an issue if your OPSEC differs strongly from the common citizen, and the energy argument comes across like a purity test - the light in my fridge probably uses more energy.
I would never go back to cable, especially since noise cancelling doesn’t work without a battery anyway - and i am very unhappy without noise cancelling.
Also, i have a power bank where i can use 21600 Li-ion Battery cells as power source (and it doubles as charger for those cells) - on travels i take a few batteries with me, and even if i find myself for weeks without power, i will have it whenever i need it.
Bluetooth alternatives aren’t better, that’s laughable.
You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don’t use Bluetooth.
The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don’t have Bluetooth.
So when you say they’re better 1. You’re wrong. And 2. You’re missing the point.
If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You’re only ok with it because it doesn’t effect you and I think that’s appalling.
Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say “that’s fine, wired headphones are better anyway”. It’s not about that, it’s about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
There are a lot of very good Bluetooth headphones from Bose, Sony, and the like. If you take a look at lab tests, most of lf them got a frequency response pretty close to the ideal curve, and ANC helps a lot to isolate outside noises that would drown out the music on wired headphones.
But I do agree about choice, just not on the blind refusal of using USB-C adapters. That’s unfortunate that they removed it, but it has some good reasons. A headphone jack wasn’t made to be waterproof, and if some managed to make some of them waterproof-ish, it is often by enclosing it into its own little sub-enclosure, with a good short-circuit protection (because even a tiny water drop in there mean a short), both of which takes place.
Same goes for the DAC, we got so far into miniaturizing it, and inside interferences are so high now with new technologies, it probably wouldn’t be viable anymore to have it inside the phone itself. Even larger device, like the Steam Deck, have problems preventing interferences on the headphones jack, so that must be an even bigger problem on something as tinny as a phone 😅citing bose and sony vs sennheiser audeze and beyerdynamics, dude, you don’t know headphones
I trust in independent reviews, reproducible tests and hard numbers, not in brand cultivated images and subjective choices. I don’t care if it comes for Audeze, Sony, or a Chinese Knockoff, numbers doesn’t lie.
did… did you just call sennheiser a chinese knockoff? dude, know when to bow out
Hell no. I’m well aware it is a good audio brand (german I think, but may be mistaken)
What I wanted to say here is that I prefer an objective good quality product, adapted to my needs, to a brand name. Even well known brands sometimes make bad products.
As an example, I have a Sony WH-1000XM3. But if I’d be interested in an XM4, there is no way in hell I’d buy an XM5, because of some shitty choices they took (no more foldable design, forced adaptative ANC). Maybe the XM6 will end up of interest to me, I did not yet check its specs, but considering I recently changed my current XM3 battery, I won’t be back on the market until the XM7 or XM8.
Could you show us the frequency response for the Bose vs the LCD-5s and tell us why you prefer the Bose?
You are right. But for >99% of users Bluetooth is a perfectly sufficient connection format for headphones.
I work in IT and pairing bluetooth is sometimes so finnicky i give up for a few days. I can accept that I’m not that great at IT but I don’t think 99% of people don’t have these problems.
And it’s not a thing you do one time, most of these gadgets need re-pairing every sone time for whatever reason.
Oh I’ll agree that sometimes Bluetooth pairing can be finicky.
But the person I replied to was talking about how Bluetooth is not good enough for audiophile quality headphones. But most people don’t care and can’t even notice the difference.
saying “bluetooth alternatives are far better these days” ignores the uses cases for cable.
Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
Hmmm. Then I would need to figure out how my authenticators would work. I have like 3 different ones for a total of like 18 accounts. It’s annoying as all hell
I’d love for that to be the case, but without a lot more polish and the ability to run Android apps in some kind of sandbox I don’t see it happening.
need more ppl to adopt it while its shitty for that point to ever come
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
or 2027. Or some Chinese variant of android on Chinese/Taiwan phone that allows sideloading, perhaps with alternate playstore and maps. I don’t yet understand how draconian this actually gets implemented, but death of android/google (to me) is possible. If hardware is good enough, then android emulator will be fine for legacy apps.
I never had one of my wired earbuds fall off the platform at the train station and disappear in the gravel, nor did I ever have isues with forgetting to charge them, let alone their case being brolen and not charging at all. And if I want to switch my favourite headphones over from my PC to my phone, I’m really glad my old phone still has a jack.
So what if Bluetooth are “better”?
Still no reason to not have both.
Bluetooth is better than…it used to be? Because I promise you there is no earbud on planet earth better than my open back cans.
I still have a headphone jack. Rare but Androids with them exist if you go out of the mainstream bullshit.
I have a fp4 and it is VERY annoying to not have jack(I don’t wanna use bluetooth because jack works, doesn’t need a battery and is low tech), so now I only listen to music on my computer, but I’m planning on making an mp3 player with a raspberry pi pico.
They won’t become “removable” like in ye old Nokia days. It’s not like you can carry extra batteries and just swap them on the go.
They just have to be swappable without special tools or specialist equipment.
Fairphone is too big, i don’t want a phablet in my pocket
The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.
I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.
They have to be user removable, not hot-removable. Take a FP6 as an example, you have to remove a couple of screw to get to it, then another couple to remove it. What are forbidden will be glued batteries and back panels.
That’s convenient to swap a battery but I feel like my phone is more likely to get soaked than need a battery swap at any time in the next two years. The FP6 is IP55 rated.
Looks like FP6 battery is £45 and iPhone 14 is £60-£90 depending where you buy it. I know I can get that done in the next hour or two where I live, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
The replaceable camera feature is more compelling because a broken front iPhone camera can effectively brick the device.
A replaceable usb-c port is great too. My previous Nokia 8.1 died because of that, and my previous FP5 needed a replacement after 2 years of use.
But I agree that Fairphone have work to do on waterproofing their phones. It was hard with the previous hand removable back panel, but now that they added screws to the back panel, it wouldn’t be that much of a a stretch to add some o-rings to further waterproof it. I’m sure they could get it to IP66 rather easily, maybe IP67 with a little more work.
My phone is IP68 and you can replace the battery. Does require removing some screws to get the case off but I think that would pretty much be required to waterproof it anyway.
Shame they discontinued Cat phones
Tbf, you can a very cheap android phone for around $100 USD, the cheapest iPhone starts at around
$400(edit: Actually I got curious and looked it up, apparantly the iPhone SE is gone and the cheapest new iPhone right now seems to be the 16e which start at $600). Also, Apple developer account cost $99 per year, Google developer account cost $25 one time fee, so the cost is gonna trickle down to the user, sometimes you find free apps on google play and then you look at apple and it cost a few dollars, its most likely due to the recurring costs to maintain a developer account.Also, Apple doesn’t allow torrent clients, You can’t use firefox with ublock origin on iOS.
(But then again, these advantages could also go away in a few years… 👀)
Wait no Firefox on iPhone? Fuck that I’m back in
There is a “firefox” but its just a re-skinned safari basicly, because Apple has some weird requirement of using their “webkit” or whatever, and no extensions allowed on the “firefox”. I used an iPhone before (because I was a young adult and iPhones looked shiny) and I was so sad to find out I couldn’t use uBlock Origin on it. And then finding out torrent apps are non-existent just made me cry.
Yes they do have “adblockers” like Brave or those Adguard thing on safari, but those are dogshit and they broke like half of the time, and many ads get through anyways, especially on youtube (where as uBlock Origin only break sites like 5% of the time).
Orion sorta lets you use Firefox addons. I use the built in adblocker it has tho.
I just get a flipphone, and try to build some portable computing device from a Raspberry Pi CM, even if they made it 5V, for “industrial purposes” (read: likely some industry people wanted to stop people from building their own portable devices), which is less ideal for battery operation.
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