Same. I genuinely don’t understand what life is like without this. If I need to remember that there’s a specific thing in the basement, I’m visualizing what’s in the basement and looking at each thing. Do these people just like have an actual list in their head for this?
if I’m not at home and need to walk my spouse through something like checking for a tripped breaker, I’m visualizing the whole process so I can explain it in detail. How does the other side do this? No judgement, I’m genuinely curious how it works.
Since aphantasia is a bit of a spectrum, I have it to a decent degree as I can only imagine blurry images in my head. I only learned about it doing some psychological testing when it was a test my psychologist wanted me to take. I can only speak for myself as I don’t know anyone else with the same kind of condition IRL, but in general I just sort of memorize task order for repetitive things. I imagine you do the same, but you have visual cues memorized in the same way I just know the steps to do something. It’s not like I don’t recognize what I’m looking at when it’s in front of me. I tend to think of it as having to be very analytical when doing one of those “spot the difference” image puzzles. I know both images have a potted plant, but it’s easier if I have them side by side to know that one was a succulent and the other was a fern. I don’t know if that analogy helps you. I don’t know what it’s like to have a vivid visual imagination, so it’s the best metaphor I can think of at the moment.
I have done remote tech support for software that I wrote which was pretty difficult if I couldn’t look at it myself locally. At least for me, I can know the properties of something such as a friend having long, red hair, but I couldn’t just visualize their face. I would still recognize them immediately when I see them. If it’s something like a tripped breaker, I just know to tell the person which room to go into and what a tripped breaker will look like so they can identify it themselves. It’s not like you don’t have a memory, but for me the visual parts of those memories are just too blurry to describe that way.
I can read fiction just fine, but it helps if the characters are illustrated in some kind of way so I know what I’m supposed to imagine while the action is happening. That could even just be a single picture of cover art. At least for me, I can still picture a cobblestone street, but I sort of just see a lot of beige or gray things in my mind with almost no definition. From reading online of the 1-5 scale of aphantasia and comparing it to the test results I got back in percentages, I think I’m somewhere between a 3 and a 4 for levels of intensity if that helps to clarify my perspective at all.
Apologies for the essay response, but I hope it helps to understand! If it’s any consolation, I find it kind of ironically hilarious that I can’t imagine having a vivid imagination.
ETA: It looks like the original test used 1 as completely unable to imagine things and 5 to a vivid imagination. That scale was flipped for the second version of the Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire. My scale of 1-5 is based on the second edition, I am on the lower end of the spectrum of vividness, but I can still sort of imagine things to a certain degree.
I have heard of the concept as a “mind palace”, but I’m almost embarrassed to admit that I just assumed it was a meme. I’ll try to practice it a bit to remember something. My mind sort of works like this with word or concept associations already, but it’s much less organized than this concept. As I can visualize blurry images, it might work to some degree.
My career is in various areas of software development, and learning to make diagrams with tools like Mermaid really helped me because I can struggle to visualize the diagrams I want to create. Since you just type out the connections you want to make programmatically, it allows me to make diagrams more easily than with any kind of visual tools. Hopefully that clarifies what I mean by thinking in concept associations already rather than visualizations.
If you’re familiar with the podcast No Such Thing As A Fish, one of the hosts (James Harkin) has aphantasia and discussed it in an episode within the last few months that quite a few animators at Pixar experience the condition as well. I also assumed when I learned about it that it was why I’m terrible with visual arts. It would seem that’s not a good excuse.
Thanks for the perspective! And I will check out the podcast, thank you.
The memory palace really works. I had a combination lock in grad school and used that method to memorize the combo. 38 is 3 crates of beer with 2 bottles on top, 24 was 2 dozen doughnuts, and 30 somehow got associated with a plant. Which I placed in a cubicle in a set of 6 from the place I worked before grad school. Still remember it more than a decade later.
Associations are very similar to psychoanalysis concepts. There’s a wide range of ways of thinking. I can sometimes think the way you do. Thought and structure is like a routine, carving mental structure. The ways we are taught and lived can really impact the way we think.
I tried this a few times as a kid after watching Dreamcatcher, so granted this was a long time ago, but my memory of how this went was basically the same as everything else I’ve said in this thread - I remember the route, I can picture the layout (but not the details), but I was never able to associate memories to a certain location.
but to be fair I’ve never met anybody who actually did this anyways
I just can’t visualize a process to walk you through it. Like on the PC I have to just do it myself or do it at the same time so I can tell you what to do.
There is no list, I just remember (or don’t) if something is there kinda intuitively. I think my memory is pretty good.
I can picture absolutely nothing. It’s just all black. It’s not even all that bad. To me it’s just normal.
I can visualize processes just fine. let’s say I want to instruct someone on how to chisel out a feature on a piece of wood. I can give them exact instructions on how to do that, because I know where the tool needs to be and where their hands need to be and what material needs to be removed. but I don’t really picture any of that in 3D, I just… know it as a description of the 3D. if that makes sense
The fact that someone could “look at a memory” and spot new things in it is astonishing to me. I didn’t think it went that far, I thought everyone would remember the list, and could recreate the picture from the list… remembering the picture independently or instead of the list… wow.
Oh no, the things you place in the memory trigger connection to the thing to be remembered. But it goes both ways, which is why I use things like crates of (12) beers that already have numbers baked in to the system.
Same. I genuinely don’t understand what life is like without this. If I need to remember that there’s a specific thing in the basement, I’m visualizing what’s in the basement and looking at each thing. Do these people just like have an actual list in their head for this?
if I’m not at home and need to walk my spouse through something like checking for a tripped breaker, I’m visualizing the whole process so I can explain it in detail. How does the other side do this? No judgement, I’m genuinely curious how it works.
Since aphantasia is a bit of a spectrum, I have it to a decent degree as I can only imagine blurry images in my head. I only learned about it doing some psychological testing when it was a test my psychologist wanted me to take. I can only speak for myself as I don’t know anyone else with the same kind of condition IRL, but in general I just sort of memorize task order for repetitive things. I imagine you do the same, but you have visual cues memorized in the same way I just know the steps to do something. It’s not like I don’t recognize what I’m looking at when it’s in front of me. I tend to think of it as having to be very analytical when doing one of those “spot the difference” image puzzles. I know both images have a potted plant, but it’s easier if I have them side by side to know that one was a succulent and the other was a fern. I don’t know if that analogy helps you. I don’t know what it’s like to have a vivid visual imagination, so it’s the best metaphor I can think of at the moment.
I have done remote tech support for software that I wrote which was pretty difficult if I couldn’t look at it myself locally. At least for me, I can know the properties of something such as a friend having long, red hair, but I couldn’t just visualize their face. I would still recognize them immediately when I see them. If it’s something like a tripped breaker, I just know to tell the person which room to go into and what a tripped breaker will look like so they can identify it themselves. It’s not like you don’t have a memory, but for me the visual parts of those memories are just too blurry to describe that way.
I can read fiction just fine, but it helps if the characters are illustrated in some kind of way so I know what I’m supposed to imagine while the action is happening. That could even just be a single picture of cover art. At least for me, I can still picture a cobblestone street, but I sort of just see a lot of beige or gray things in my mind with almost no definition. From reading online of the 1-5 scale of aphantasia and comparing it to the test results I got back in percentages, I think I’m somewhere between a 3 and a 4 for levels of intensity if that helps to clarify my perspective at all.
Apologies for the essay response, but I hope it helps to understand! If it’s any consolation, I find it kind of ironically hilarious that I can’t imagine having a vivid imagination.
ETA: It looks like the original test used 1 as completely unable to imagine things and 5 to a vivid imagination. That scale was flipped for the second version of the Vividness of Visual Imagery Questionnaire. My scale of 1-5 is based on the second edition, I am on the lower end of the spectrum of vividness, but I can still sort of imagine things to a certain degree.
No apologies necessary - thanks for this. We can’t ever be in each other’s heads to experience how each other thinks, so this is amazing.
Have you ever heard of the mnemonic device of a “memory palace”? Can you do this? Or would it not work for you?
I appreciate that outlook on life!
I have heard of the concept as a “mind palace”, but I’m almost embarrassed to admit that I just assumed it was a meme. I’ll try to practice it a bit to remember something. My mind sort of works like this with word or concept associations already, but it’s much less organized than this concept. As I can visualize blurry images, it might work to some degree.
My career is in various areas of software development, and learning to make diagrams with tools like Mermaid really helped me because I can struggle to visualize the diagrams I want to create. Since you just type out the connections you want to make programmatically, it allows me to make diagrams more easily than with any kind of visual tools. Hopefully that clarifies what I mean by thinking in concept associations already rather than visualizations.
If you’re familiar with the podcast No Such Thing As A Fish, one of the hosts (James Harkin) has aphantasia and discussed it in an episode within the last few months that quite a few animators at Pixar experience the condition as well. I also assumed when I learned about it that it was why I’m terrible with visual arts. It would seem that’s not a good excuse.
Thanks for the perspective! And I will check out the podcast, thank you.
The memory palace really works. I had a combination lock in grad school and used that method to memorize the combo. 38 is 3 crates of beer with 2 bottles on top, 24 was 2 dozen doughnuts, and 30 somehow got associated with a plant. Which I placed in a cubicle in a set of 6 from the place I worked before grad school. Still remember it more than a decade later.
Associations are very similar to psychoanalysis concepts. There’s a wide range of ways of thinking. I can sometimes think the way you do. Thought and structure is like a routine, carving mental structure. The ways we are taught and lived can really impact the way we think.
I tried this a few times as a kid after watching Dreamcatcher, so granted this was a long time ago, but my memory of how this went was basically the same as everything else I’ve said in this thread - I remember the route, I can picture the layout (but not the details), but I was never able to associate memories to a certain location.
but to be fair I’ve never met anybody who actually did this anyways
I was able to use it for a while, but didn’t really need to after a year or two. Google Docs and Keep made it an obsolete method.
I just can’t visualize a process to walk you through it. Like on the PC I have to just do it myself or do it at the same time so I can tell you what to do. There is no list, I just remember (or don’t) if something is there kinda intuitively. I think my memory is pretty good. I can picture absolutely nothing. It’s just all black. It’s not even all that bad. To me it’s just normal.
I don’t know for sure that I’m on the other side
that said…
I can visualize processes just fine. let’s say I want to instruct someone on how to chisel out a feature on a piece of wood. I can give them exact instructions on how to do that, because I know where the tool needs to be and where their hands need to be and what material needs to be removed. but I don’t really picture any of that in 3D, I just… know it as a description of the 3D. if that makes sense
The fact that someone could “look at a memory” and spot new things in it is astonishing to me. I didn’t think it went that far, I thought everyone would remember the list, and could recreate the picture from the list… remembering the picture independently or instead of the list… wow.
Oh no, the things you place in the memory trigger connection to the thing to be remembered. But it goes both ways, which is why I use things like crates of (12) beers that already have numbers baked in to the system.
Open the breaker.
It’s on the left side (if I remember that much due to it happening a lot)
It will look like it’s not aligned with everything else, find it and flip it back on.
Not that hard.