(TikTok screenshot)
Now do communism.
And yet… *gestures broadly around*
being far right is when you’re so freaking lost you forget you don’t have to stick to someone else’s program
There is definitely a program, to follow, and plenty of ways to get on it.
Watch anything about Fitness or History (Anything involving any conflict ever) and you’ll somehow get to Alex Jones every time.
Yeah I spend alot of time weighing the proportions of how much right-wingers are dumb versus how much they’re just shitty people (on an individual basis).
They’re all just stupid. Being that level of shitty requires being stupid.
I don’t disagree, but there’s a nasty cycle there. Conservatives defund education, deregulate airwaves, and so the kids of conservatives don’t get a good education and are brought up by Fox News. Because of that, they are ignorant of the real world, and they believe the lies spewed by conservative media, so they vote conservative and the cycle continues.
There is a fine line between being an asshole and stupidity. Somehow they’re typically both.
Naivevil
Same, because I come from that world. Specifically the trumpy, angry, racist, paranoid, dunning-kruger overconfident american conservative world. That’s the family I was born into.
I think my presence on Lemmy suggests my curiosity and skepticism and giving-a-shit-about-other-people-itis led to me clawing my way out of that toxic hole over the decades.
But for how much I can deeply relate to you weighing the priorities, I have no better answers for you. When you are in their in-group (especially thinking extended family) they can be loving and giving people.
I personally think there are two big drivers that don’t get enough attention because it sounds like you’re trying to insult them.
The first is ignorance. As in literally ignoring the world around you. Living on auto pilot. Out of sight, out of mind. They mentally check the box of “responsible people follow the news” by passively absorbing content from Fox News or one of their local Sinclair news channels. Propaganda works extremely well on them.
The second is the mental pain of undiagnosed mental and/or neurological issues. Treatable stuff like anxiety, depression, and ADHD. In other words I’m not just implying they are narcissists or have borderline possibility disorder.
In my corner of the world, the more conservative a person is, the more irritable they are all the time. It’s like they are an animal with a thorn in its paw and don’t even know it. I know what that existence feels like, and then you have all these evil forces in the world waiting to reveal who is causing your pain! Surprise, it’s those others!!
Part of me judges them harshly. We’re talking about middle aged and older people who have had the time to learn. But there’s a huge part of me that knows that pain that makes you angry all the time.
What I come back to every single time though, is that every awful person that has ever existed has a sad story. Even if no other person did things to twist somebody into a monster, they had the bad luck to be born with a brain that gives them psychosis later in life, or whatever the situation is.
At some point you have to judge people not just by their actions but on the effects and outcomes of what they do. I can be polite to ignorant ordinary people living ordinary lives. But for high-level politicians that destroy lives by the thousands and millions as they take advantage of it, I really don’t care how horrible their upbringing was. I mean I do, but it’s only like 0.01% of the suffering we’re talking about, and it’s not the preventable kind.
We’re talking about middle aged and older people who have had the time to learn.
To expand on this. It usually just looks like they’ve had the time to learn.
I also was raised conservative, my mentally ill stepfather was seduced by a borderline cult of a church, so I was in deep deep.
It takes so much out of you. Being that religious is literally exhausting and takes up all the available time people would have otherwise had to learn. I’m talking church three times a week, plus home church meetings, all full of propaganda about how demons lurk behind every corner and the only people you can trust are the people running the church. They’ve got it intentionally set up so that you are drowning in fear, and the only lifelines you trust are pure fantasy.
It’s insidious.
some stupidity is a choice (there’s so much free available information and i know some damn smart and well educated poor people), and that’s pretty shitty
Yeah, but that feeling of superiority solely because of who gave birth to you and not for anything you have personally done…
American exceptionalism was the first necessary step.
1930 aesthetics are a big factor as well. This new right wing Nazi propaganda is very visually appealing
And if your a bitter racist fuck the memes are there for ya
Which is weird because Trump and everyone he surrounds himself with are a bunch of trolls and goblins with no fashion sense. Just look at those damn ties
also woman associated with the far right, need to have the mara-a-lago face, plastic surgery so much to look like a 20 something that the conservative supporter(male)would have reason to support the conservative cause.
“If I can’t sexually satisfy a woman, no-one will!”
The irony of people falling for 1930s propaganda and being wrong on so many issues accusing the others of falling for 1930s propaganda and being wrong on issues is… lost on them. unsurprising, really. The smug, arrogant, low information crowd can’t conceive the concept that they can be wrong.
Even with how shitty conservative elements are, most of the issues they raise are actually correct and often missed by progressive elements, but their proposed solutions or narrative around those issues is pure garbage.
I remember seeing Andrew Tate of all people start talking about how people are living a slave’s life, working for others while getting barely enough for subsistence with no real prospects for social mobility, a point that one could pull from Marx. However, the solution that he proposes is a theocracy and return to traditionalism for some reason, which is nonsense.
yeah, the attempt to present fascism as a people’s libterating movement, as a kind of socialism, is nothing new - these are old rhetorical tricks, which makes it all the more disappointing they work still…
Or immigrational issues. Where I live that’s a huge talking point that moved from right-wing to even slightly left of the center. Immigrants tend to bunch up in groups and sadly since a lot of them come from countries which are rather socially conservative, they bring those values with them and can be hostile towards women or queer people, sometimes even democracy. And since their social circle shares those values, as people are most likely to connect with other like-minded people, there’s no shift there over time or in future generations.
Yet politicians and many voters forget they are human. It’s just “send them back to where they came from” from the right-wing parties, instead of trying to find out how to actually improve things. What’s missing is integration. Something Denmark is doing for example is spreading immigrants, especially refugees since those don’t really decide where they go, out. Have a few scattered here or there, still able to find connections to people from the same places, but unable to build a complete social network without also interacting heavily with Danes. There are still awful people, immigrant or local humans will be humans, but this type of action means there’s a far higher chance for immigrants to adopt local values, especially second or third generation ones.
They identified a notable issue that needs to be addressed, but the response is always hate instead of actually trying to figure out how to live as humans side-by-side.
Even the dumbest MAGA fool who can barely read and write knows that in general, they are becoming increasingly worse off. And they’re not wrong. They just don’t understand the “why” or “how”.
Instead of looking into it, they tend to cling to their nostalgic perception of whenever they think times were better. Mistakenly conflating their memories of the “good ol’ days” – which are heavily condensed because that’s just how the human brain works – with the ideal picture of life and society.
People like Trump are able to tap into that, promising to effectively turn back the clock, even though that’s impossible and complete bullshit. But, it resonates with those nostalgic desires and that creates a powerful bond, for better or worse.
If the Democrats want to stage a serious comeback, they’re going to have to take some pages from the playbooks of people like FDR and LBJ.
For instance, shore up Social Security and Medicare. Remove the income tax cap from Social Security. Give all the old Boomers a decent raise. Unprivatize all of Medicare and put it to work making sure that senior citizens get the best quality healthcare possible.
Do whatever it takes to ram that legislation through. Worst case, Republicans oppose it (which they will) and you can drag each and every one of them through the mud.
The Democratic party, as it currently stands, isn’t going to do that because they don’t have the balls. Until they grow some, were going to continue this death spiral into fascism led by charlatans making false promises about returning to some utopia that never truly existed.
This is cute from people who live under left leaning governments who tax them ever harder and erect more and more barriers to social mobility though taxation, needless bureaucracy and regulations, and then erect more and more horribly inefficient and fraud prone programs to ensure that those at the bottom are trapped at the bottom because they get a “free” home, food, etc, but if they work too hard, those are cut off, making them worse off than when they just suckled the government teat and accepted their lot in life, which means they cannot EVER raise themselves up due to being made worse off than they are if they try.
Then these people breed and create more and more government dependent subjects who have little choice but the suckle the government teat, and then they have kids, and their kids have kids, creating an ever growing army of dependent subjects that cement the charlatans in power in perpetuity.
Famously, the industrial capitalists of the industrial revolution allowed fantastic upward mobility for the people stuck in work houses. These people where given gruel and a leaking roof over their head for christ sakes! So dependant! They should have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked 20 hours a day 7 days a week instead of 16 hours 6 days a week. Work sets you free, amirite?
Your ideology killed people for little in return. We are done talking with your stupid philosophy after seeing it in action. It is for real, dumber than communism.
And what ideology would that be?
Ayn Rand type
What in the actual fuck are you on about? Some vaguely-racist, anti-welfare rant?
I’m all for a social safety net. The problem is that Democrats have turned it into a social gill net. A net you can get into, but is very hard to escape from. You should look harder into how it works. There is a point where you go from getting the full benefits to getting nothing and it’s well below the line you’d need to be to not need it anymore. The system is specifically designed to never let you escape.
There’s a reason why multigenerational welfare dependence exists. It’s an intentional setup to ensure that people cannot become socially mobile because that negatively affects political parties that rely on having a large population of people in poverty to draw their power from. It’s called a benefits cliff. In many places, you’re better off sitting at the bottom, making almost nothing and suckling the government teat than fighting your way to financial independence. It traps people not only in poverty, but where they live because moving to a different state or sometimes even city to seek better opportunities means losing some or all of your benefits, putting them in a worse off situation.
So, there is most certainly a cliff, but can you expand on your claim that “Democrats have turned it into a social gill net.”? From my reality, they’ve been the ones trying (albeit feebly) to expand services, while the fascists have done everything they can to cut services, creating that cliff.
They expand the services to trap more and more people in the gill net. The bigger the net, the more people trapped.
Also, the cliffs aren’t created by “fascists” trying to cut services. The cliffs are written into the programs specifically to stop people from escaping the gill net. This is even present in VERY blue states. Also, your casual use of the term “fascists” is telling.
If it wasn’t intentional, the losses would be gradual as the person makes more money to wean them off the benefits, rather than making them worse off for having the nerve to dare make more than the state sanctioned amount of money. Anyone capable of basic logic would know that this would be necessary to get people off of welfare, which SHOULD be temporary for people who fall on hard times, not a lifestyle for generations on end.
The problem is that when people rise to the middle class, they tend to be less receptive to the idea of voting for more and more taxes and government programs because then it’s THEIR money that is being taken. Those at the bottom who depend on the government are more than happy to vote for it because then it’s taking someone else’s money and benefits themselves. This is a problem for Democrats because they rely on a permanent underclass of impoverished people who depend on various welfare programs to draw their power from.
What a steaming load of conspiratorial bullshit. Yes, evil Democrats trying to expand services that help people are in actuality just trying to trap them in their “net” in order to…fuck if I know. And yes, you apparently haven’t noticed the ® party has gone 100% fascist, nothing “casual” about it.
In my future leaders program we decided it would be better not to have benefits tied to income at all. Everyone gets the benefit. No cliffs. No need to ween anyone off. Like the roads these benefits could be part of the social contract. This creates an actual safety net and removes the most negative incentives.
I love how you rant about people staying addicted to welfare programs because of one of the exact things the commenter above you was advocating to remove (upper limits to receive benefits)
taxation
You mean like tariffs? Which are a tax on US citizens who import foreign goods? And which are ultimately paid by people who consume foreign goods? Which is fucking everybody.
needless bureaucracy and regulations
Like what’s needed to implement tariffs?
The only thing more annoying than your right-wing rhetoric’s inaccuracy is how fucking tired it is.
I see another unserious person who can’t think beyond their political talking points.
Come back when you’re capable of thinking and speaking intelligently and not mindlessly spouting your political gods’ talking points.
I am also not “right wing” but you see anyone who doesn’t worship your poltiical gods as such, so I suppose you would see it that way.
Yeah but look at flat-earthers, how do you justify that?
I remember when the flat-earther movement was new, there were some people in it who claimed to be smart. They said they don’t really believe it, they just like to be sceptical… and contrarian. Basically they like to argue, for the sake of making people question what they’ve been taught and what they don’t know from their own personal observations. Like “are you really any better than us because you trust people who are more trustworthy?” I can almost see the point. But yes, that’s kind of how it works… I don’t need to be smart about some broad or niche category if people certified and well read on that thing who are accredited by reputable institutions tell me what it is and around the world, they agree, in different languages, it’s not a conspiracy. But I guess some healthy scepticism is good.
Now, these alt-right guys? Yeah, I don’t get it. They aren’t fulfilling promises on anything but making things harder for minorities. They are doing what they said there. You knew he was going to go after brown-skinned people and the gays, so no surprise there. Tearing down institutions, this hyper militant shit, yeah maybe he didn’t campaign on that but I feel like, if you didn’t go out and vote against him last November, you kinda did cosign on all this.
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Fundamentally, I understand where the flat earthers are coming from.
In our day-to-day experience, the earth seems flat. While there are some things that could show that there’s a curve, none of them are easy or obvious. Like, if you live near a big body of water, you can see that as boats get farther away, you can’t see as much of them. But, a big body of water also tends to have waves, so it’s not obvious that the ships are being hidden by the curve of the earth, rather than by waves. On land, it’s even less obvious that the earth is curved because even small hills affect things more than the earth’s curvature.
So, for the most part, you have to trust experts who say that the Earth is curved. But, the world has been using so-called experts to lie to people for a long time. Commercials use people in doctor’s shirts to hawk medicines. Insurance companies use “experts” that say a treatment isn’t needed. Experts testify in front of congress that so-and-so is safe and won’t harm people, or won’t cost jobs, then it inevitably does. The whole opioid crisis was largely due to trusted “experts” (doctors) over-prescribing opioids and telling patients that they were safe.
“Doing your own research” seems like a smart thing. But, the people doing it don’t know how to do research. Ever since “No Child Left Behind”, American schools have only gotten worse. They don’t know how to read or interpret scientific papers. They don’t know how to identify high quality journals, or how to spot conflicts of interest, or how to understand if something is highly cited. So, they go with “Truthiness”, and are easily manipulated.
obligatory link to the Folding Ideas video on the topic
related videos:
- ContraPoints CONSPIRACY
- hbomberguy’s Flat Earth
Flat-earthers are just religious nutjobs. They don’t really believe any of the pseudoscience in it, they believe it because it conforms with what their holy book says.
I’m sure some are, but I stand by my assertion that I’ve met flat-earthers who were simply sceptical and pushing that particular point of view.
This was also when they were new. I’m not sure if those people represent the whole or if I just met an outlier (and online, at that, where anyone can say/claim anything). I certainly don’t mean to speak about all of them.
I had a friend pretty into mysticism. She kept it at bay enough it was harmless. Then one day at her place, had a conversation with her 18 year old son. The first half of the conversation he said I need to teach my son jow to deal with a break up. He had just been dumped and clearly had feelings about it.
The second half of this conversation with this young person, he spent trying to tell me why the earth was flat. He used a split screen tictok as his reference material. I was taken aback by this, he just graduated high school… Another time not long after, he saw husband’s car with a behemoth sticker on it. He was clearly distressed, and asked me why we would have that, didn’t I know I will attract demons and negativite energy?
This was two years ago or so. Im not friends with her anymore, last I heard he was going to get a mining job down south. I was amazed and baffled by the words coming out this young person’s mouth.
The new ones are different.
I had a brief phase on Instagram where I followed some flat earthers, and there did seem to be kind of a range of beliefs on it. There were the ones that would use pseudoscience to debate people, and then it would go kind of in a scale from that, to people using examples from scripture about the firmament and how God made the earth flat and NASA has been trying to hide God from the world and it’s only 3462 years old or some shit like that.
It was weirdly interesting.
The only two flat-Earthers I’ve known irl were atheists
This is not a definition of all flat earthers. By painting with such broad strokes, you’re spreading your own version of misinformation. Flat earthers can be people from any background. There are some flat earthers who have this view you mention, but hardly all.
Every single flat earther is a fucking idiot.
Now this point, we can agree on.
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Are there any issues where conservatives are correct? I mean, like even if it means they agree with progressives.
I was thinking both are against murder, but conservatives seem to support the genocide in Palestine. They seem excited about the idea of a civil war.
I was thinking both reject the rape of children, but conservatives lately seem to have been warming up to that.
I think the reason it’s hard to find a good answer is that their opinions aren’t based on anything logical, just whatever they’re told to believe at the moment. A person with no truly held convictions cannot be right about anything.
- Sometimes there are too many regulations. When corporations get big and powerful, sometimes they push for regulations that will make it harder for their competitors.
- Immigration isn’t always well managed. Often corporations will try to bring in immigrants so that they can avoid paying non-immigrants a higher wage. Illegal immigrants should be deported (but the companies that employ them should be heavily fined too).
- Drugs are bad, m’kay? Mexico’s issues with narcos terrorizing them, destabilizing their government, etc. is driven by the demand for drugs from the US. It’s true that when Americans are buying illegal drugs, they’re often funding these narcos.
- Freedom of speech. This is normally something that is more of a conservative value. The left is typically more willing to say certain points of view shouldn’t be heard.
- There is waste, fraud and abuse in the government. An occasional house cleaning is a good idea. But, it was Al Gore who did it the right way. DOGE was a clusterfuck.
- Think of the Children! Sometimes the world moves too quickly, and it has a bad effect on kids. Take, for example, kids getting addicted to their cell phones and social media, or kids using ChatGPT to cheat. Raising kids in a more traditional way while we figure out the effect of these new-fangled technologies might be smart.
- Chyna. The west really should have been harsher with China. China didn’t respect IP rules with respect to US patents and trade secrets. China’s government continues to promote and back certain companies. The “de minimis” rule was awful and really needed to be fixed.
What makes this hard to answer is that conservatives and liberals have flipped on a number of issues over the past decade or so. In Ye Olde Days, the left wing was protectionist because labour unions were strong. It was the conservatives that were pro free-trade, etc. Then the neo-liberals were pro-free trade, and the conservatives have become protectionist. Protecting nature has shifted back and forth as a conservative or liberal value. The left used to be skeptical about big business, but then it was the right who was trying to regulate the Silicon Valley companies, while the left defended them, and now the bosses in Silicon Valley are going hard right. The right used to be much more pro-immigrant because it was good for business, while the unions on the left opposed it. Now the right is anti-immigrant and the left is pro-immigrant. The right used to be the pro-war party, while the left was anti-war. Now the right is isolationist and against getting involved in military things overseas, and it’s the left who wants to continue working with allies and intervening to protect vulnerable countries like Ukraine or vulnerable minorities who are being persecuted. (Both parties are terrible on Israel and Gaza). The right used to have freedom of speech as a core value, and it was the left who thought some people shouldn’t have a platform and shouldn’t have their views heard. Now it’s the right who wants to censor everything and the left defending free speech.
Are there any issues where conservatives are correct?
Flawed premise and why we’re in this shit-mire. We keep thinking that we can appeal to the minds to relate with or connect with or change the policies of a third of our population when they’re not using their minds to begin with.
They are the segment of the population not concerned with policy and values and principles, It may seem backwards to say they don’t have values when they have such violent ideology, but their entire motivation for the things they defend violently is entirely emotional.
If their feelings change, so do their stances. If you can tell a better story that engages them and makes them feel feelings, their brains will latch onto that new narrative and they will either abandon the old one or encorporate it even if it contradicts… because again, concepts like contradiction and inconsistency are products of logic and reason, and we’re talking about a side based in emotion and impulses. For example, when a conservative suddenly has a family crisis and needs assistance, they become entirely for public support systems and socialism. When they need an abortion, suddenly they’re pro-choice. When one of their kids is harmed by a shooter, they want gun controls. They can hold these changes in belief WHILE also remaining anti-socialism, pro-gun and pro-life. We have a very hard time understanding this if we are people who read and write and think with language.
Trump and his ilk tap this easily by saying short, pithy and powerful statements to help emotional minds validate their own feelings. You sad and overworked? it’s the migrants! Worried about your kids education? TRANS PEOPLE IN THE BATHROOM.
It doesn’t have to logically make sense, our brains don’t work like that by default, they just need a story to explain the feelings.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community
^ and it’s nothing new, reactionaries have always preferred fantasy and power over reality and goodness.
Reactionaries are unknowingly self-harming, and their victimization fuels their faith and anger, which is redirected conveniently to scapegoats and political enemies.
Climate disasters lead to conspiracies about the government controlling the weather, rather than accountability for oil companies or action to stabilize the climate.
Poverty and economic hardship becomes hatred against immigrants and decadent elements of society (intellectuals, gays, trans, etc.), instead of bolstering workers movements and unions or translating into policies that improve outcomes.
Those who do not think for themselves cannot conceive that they can be wrong. They always accept whatever they are told by their political party without question, even if it contradicts what they were told previously and will promptly discard previous stance without question. If Trump was a Democrat, the Democrats would rally around him and the Democrats’ minions would worship the ground he walks on, even as he deports illegal immigrants. There would be a small handful that rail against him, but the bulk would genuflect mindlessly, just like they did with Obama when he was declared “deporter in chief”
" If you can tell a better story that engages them and makes them feel feelings, their brains will latch onto that new narrative and they will either abandon the old one or encorporate it even if it contradicts"
Partially correct. The mindless will change their minds, but only when their political gods tell them to. If the better story comes from anyone else, they reject it without a second thought. This applies to both parties.
The irony is watching Democrats/left wingers on here declaring themselves the arbiters of truth and morality and howling about Trump being a pedo when Biden was openly touching and sniffing little girls on national TV with the same Democrats desperately trying to explain it away as being “fatherly”. Then when the Ashley Biden diary was confirmed to be real, the Democrats rejected reality because it would mean that they were wrong about Biden.
I was with you until you started going insane at the end.
Dagwood has some bass-ackwards political takes
I blocked him, I don’t think any of us should be wasting our time and energy on people who get so high off their own farts that they decide to move in there and stay in their own ass forever.
Yeah, I’ll be blocking them in short order.
It’s not insane. It’s the truth. Why do you think the FBI, who does not pursue lost or stolen personal possession cases, went after the Ashley Biden diary?
The Biden Administration knew it would be bad news if the contents of that diary were made public. Some of it was and even SNOPES had to admit that it was real and the contents that were released were confirmed.
And why else would Ashley write that she had to wait until late at night to shower because of her father? Those who worship the Democratic Party ignored the obvious, that he was a pedo and he has dementia.
Call it insane if you want, I call it reality.
I care a lot more about material outcomes the current administration’s attempts to like… destroy motherfucking democracy, than conspiracy stories about a diary, and I care more about power structures that support things like sex-trafficking islands for billionaires than one family’s attempts to keep their private shit under wraps.
It is insane, I read the whole thing and stand by it, it’s more useless hype and distraction-for-clicks that’s preventing national mobilization and unity against a force that will someday take away even your ability to read these emotion-validating stories on the internet that make you feel better about yourself for whatever reason.
Define “destroy democracy”.
It’s a meaningless buzz phrase the Democrats bandy about to stir up hysteria and prevent people from thinking critically. It wasn’t Trump who tried to weaponize the government to force a political candidate from running and tried to keep said candidate tied up in court so they couldn’t campaign.
People capable of critical thinking burned out on the hysteria between 2016 and 2021. This is why Trump got reelected in 2020. The Democrat hysteria didn’t work and the Democrats actively trying to weaponize the government to stop Trump was so blatantly obvious that it turned a huge number of people against them.
Also, you’re doing precisely what I described. Denying reality in service of your political party. You call it a “conspiracy theory” because then you can use that label to deny reality. Biden was a pedo and has dementia, it was obvious. you didn’t care because he was “on your team”.
It’s also not a theory. It’s a fact.
Lets not say “destroy democracy” and instead say “dismantling the government and systems in place to protect citizens and the basic rights of human beings in favor of a theocratic fascist regime.”
I can’t engage with militant centrism, again I care about outcomes. Right now we’re heading for bad outcomes because people (like you) are so incredibly self-consumed that they can’t get their heads out of their asses long enough to mobilize communities and get social and start uniting instead of finding yet more things to feel special about under every rock.
Have a good one. Or a bad one. Or one in between because GOOD AND BAD ARE THE SAME THING WAKE UP SHEEPLE.
The shower thing was her recollection of a dream. Maybe read the shit you claim to know so much about, you’ll either spread less disinformation or at least be better at it.
There’s a certain level of childish contrarianism going on. “I was going to do this, but now I have learned you want me to do it and so I’m going to refuse”
My brother and I tried to convince our father to install solar panels when he was considering replacing our parents’ entire roof due to age. The house was perfect for it: it wasn’t shaded by trees, the roof was a 35 degree angle facing mostly to the south, the whole roof needed to be replaced, and there where still some really good tax advantages at the time.
We ran all the numbers for him, showed how it would pay for itself in something like 5 years and actually generate money for him after that, how the tax breaks would save so much money, how a large home battery could be used to power the home when the electricity is out due to Indiana’s frequent tornadoes and storms…
Nope. Saving tens of thousands of dollars wasn’t enough to overcome the dangers of Critical Race Theory powered panels generating a woke communist DEI field that is going to transgender the tan suit wearing raccoons of the Southern Indiana AntiFa Brigade.
I’m glad he died before COVID hit. He would absolutely have been the sort to say that wearing a mask is something only blue haired lesbian socialists do and gotten our mother killed.
There are aspects of “Make America Healthy Again” that are actually good ideas but the problem is that they are tied to extremely bad ones. Like getting rid of artificial dyes in food and improving food purity are good ideas on the surface, but they’re tied to dumb ass ideas like seed oil panic and anti vax. Furthermore, none of this stuff is actually being supported by law. It’s all just rhetoric and the actual law and policy changes are just more pro corporate nonsense and all action taken by corporations so far has been voluntary statements saying they’ll do something in the future. I think this is the real problem of the conservative movement at least in its current form. Even when they stumble upon a good idea, the fact that there is no underlying logical framework to that idea other than just further enriching those in charge means that said idea can’t be implemented properly and without other nonsense.
Are there any issues where conservatives are correct?
If you look at earlier 19th and early 20th century conservatives, they absolutely make pretty good points.
More than a few social safety systems world wide were instituted by conservatives, under the thinking that people are fucking shit to eachother and thus it falls to institutions to take care of basic needs. A famous example is the German welfare state created by Bismarck.
A lot of natural beauty has been protected by conservatives, because they used to believe in actually conserving things.
Conservatives of the past have done a LOT of good in preventing and reversing government overreach in personal liberties.
I could have absolutely had a great discussion with a conservative from 1925. We would have some major disagreements, but more than a few similarities. And a modern conservative would loathe everything about that same past conservative.
Bismarck only enacted those welfare laws to take the wind out of the sails of leftist labourer movements
The problem is that if they almost have a good idea, they add “for white people” at the end. Gun rights for white people. Financial freedom for white people. Low taxes for white people.
Are we talking conservatives in theory here, or conservatives in practice?
In theory, it’s not a matter of right or wrong, it’s a matter of balance. The government needs brakes, it needs people who look at every issue from the perspective of “should we do this thing, how far should we go with it, and how much should it cost”. In practice, conservatives have had way too much power for far too long. They’ve gone past the point of being brakes, and become full-on regressives that have been co-opted by corporations and religious fanatics that flock to the stability and “traditional values” that the ideology initially had as it’s foundation.
I think the reason it’s hard to find a good answer is that their opinions aren’t based on anything logical, just whatever they’re told to believe at the moment. A person with no truly held convictions cannot be right about anything.
This isn’t too far from what has been researched. Take a gander: https://theauthoritarians.org/
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I’ve seen local rural conservitards who are anti-data center. its mostly because they’re old and don’t understand computers but as a self hosting advocate I’m all for it.
“The positions my political party takes is always correct. Those who disagree with my political party are always wrong” is the single most intellectually bankrupt, arrogant, and narcissistic view a person can have.
It shows a complete lack of critical thinking and a deep, outright religious zeal for the message of the doctrine of the political party they worship.
What are they correct about, then?
Well, then, it should be easy for you to come up with examples. You wouldn’t just get all worked up and morally righteous if you didn’t have tons of examples where conservatives were correct, would you? I’m sure you can list hundreds, but let’s start with one.
Edit: Dagwood_Sanwich has made 9 comments in the time since I made this one, so I think it’s a given that they can’t come up with one answer. If anybody out there needs to learn how to deal with conservatives, I suggest you take notes from LBC’s James O’Brien. Conservatives tend to make general statements and grandstand, but just ask them to explain one thing and they crumple.
Of course, James O’Brien’s style works best when you are in a conversation with them. On the internet, they’ll just find somewhere else to go and spread their misinformation. But if we all acted like James O’Brien, there would be nowhere for propagandists to go.
The account is also less than 2 weeks old and seems to mostly make comments like the above. Either they’re as much of a whiny Republican when challenged on their talking points as they present themselves to be, or they’re a troll/astroturfed. Either way, blocked
I’m not sure they’re worth blocking. Their account will probably be banned soon, anyways, presumably like their previous accounts were.
Both the Right and the Left agree you shouldn’t get to freeload off other people’s work, they just disagree on who it is that’s doing the freeloading…
It’s for folks with single digit IQs and usually the worst attitude towards mankind and their wranglers who know a bit better but only care about themselves and use them. Hindutva, Zionists, Christo-fascists, EDL chavs, they’re all racist, stupid, immature troublemakers and a blight on humanity. But it’s more the selfish attitude and sadism than the lack of intelligence, and they will face judgment for it.
Tell this to Lemmings whose whole identity is 1920s propaganda…
It’s a good thing that Fascism and Marxiism/Leninism aren’t the only two options.
Seems like most people online have forgotten this lately.
then you’re a pesky liberal, according to them
Who is them? Why would I take the ideological ramblings of functionally illiterate people with attitude problems seriously? If you think this way, you’ll never be a complete human being. 😒
exactly
I’ve noticed there is only ever a far right, never a far left.
far left, left, is aso demonized as being communist for decades nobody is going to publically admit they are, so they stick with being moderate/
What was the abolitionist John Brown if not far left?
What was Lenin if not far left (even if in the end he was opposed to those left of him, what was he before in power when Bolshevism was nothing but the left alternative to Menshevism)?
What were the suffragettes who in the early 20th century were bombing and burning down churches and government buildings if not far left?
What were the eight anarchists wrongfully sentenced to death for the Haymarket Affair if not far left?
Certain groups claim a far left exists
Specifically people on the far right
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Far left is when the far right calls themselves socialists
The far right unironically beleive this
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Without even saying goodbye? 😔😭
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I see, so only the far right exists. Interesting. And the far right is so threatening yet seen as corny. Even more interesting.
Far right institutions are very much threatening, yes, they are using the literal gestapo to kidnap people off the streets and out of their homes. The standard supporters and stooges, you for example, are corny fucking idiots, yes.
I read your comment in the voice of Ben Shapiro. I would imagine you are as obtuse as he is.
Cringe would be a better descriptor than corny
Maybe pay more attention.
There are many “far” left people. Anarchism is far left so is communism.
The difference is what the ideology believes.
The far right wants people to die because they are not in the in-group.
The far left wants to level the playing field for everyone and fill all the needs of the people.
The far right wants people to die because they are not in the in-group.
And your evidence for this is?
it’s literally in the intro summary on wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics
Key to the far-right worldview is the notion of societal purity, often invoking ideas of a homogeneous “national” or “ethnic” community. This view generally promotes organicism, which perceives society as a unified, natural entity under threat from diversity or modern pluralism. Far-right movements frequently target perceived threats to their idealized community, whether ethnic, religious, or cultural, leading to anti-immigrant sentiments, welfare chauvinism, and, in extreme cases, political violence or oppression.
…
Far-right politics have led to oppression, political violence, forced assimilation, ethnic cleansing, and genocide against groups of people based on their supposed inferiority or their perceived threat to the native ethnic group, nation, state, national religion, dominant culture, or conservative social institutions.
see: the Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics
Historically, violence has been widely accepted by the far-left as a means to enact societal change.[262] The anti-authoritarian far-left may consider violence justified in combatting repressive forces.[73] Revolutionary far-left groups might organise themselves into underground movements or carry out violent insurgencies. Insurgencies are only viable in developing nations where the state is not capable of defeating the group.[263] As support for the far-left decreases, violent groups shift their focus from attacks against the state to attacks for survival, such as freeing its members from prison.[201] Leon Trotsky rejected the use of violence, saying it does not benefit the working class like other measures such as striking.
See: Pol Pot
Pol Pot is your choice of historical figures to try to call out leftist violence? Are you playing dumb, or are you genuinely that fucking stupid?
Also, are you saying it’s wrong to use violence to fight back against violent authoritarian regimes? Is it ok for them to use violence and it’s only wrong when leftists use violence?
not sure how this is relevant, tbh …
maybe you mistakenly believe I think the left doesn’t use violence as a tool? How do you think slavery was abolished? How was the Magna Carta signed? How did we get the 40 hour work week? How did we get democracy? Bloodshed.
This isn’t related to our topic or your question, which is about whether the far-right uses violence to maintain purity.
No matter how much violence the left uses to give women the right to vote or to free slaves, it doesn’t justify the slaughter of Jews by the Nazis or other far right genocides.
They are arresting, caging, deporting anyone not in their in-group and protesting with slogans such as “Kill ‘em all. Let god sort them out.”
Maybe open your fucking eyes.
Lol
$100 says you are a liberal.
Because your instance already defederated from lemmygrad and hexbear.
I see you dont live in latinoamerica. Here when people think “the left” they think of the tankie “fuck democracy” crowd
Sorry, you lost me, I have no idea what anything you wrote after “latinoamerica”. Even that I’m not sure what it means.
i love your username.
They arent even unpopular, its suprisingly worrying
Would have been nice if the CIA didn’t basically prove everything the USSR said about capitalism was correct.
Not in the US at least.
