I did get messed up by some anxiety and have these thoughts rolling through my head so I’ll leave it at cosmic horror warning.
spoiler
I’m not religious but I have thoughts about experiencing consciousness and what it is. I say that consciousness is independent of memory because we forget, clearly dependent on our physical body, etc. generally I do say that we don’t know consciousness so maybe it can be reconstructed (in the can’t rule out the possibility way)
So I can see scenarios were my conscious could pop into existence without my memories after I die (as I’m writing this I realized that’s nothing to fear).
I am trying to adopt healthier mindset of looking at everything in life as a quest, new things are a call to action, and that it’s okay if everything I do amounts to little in x number of years (worked out okay for ozymandias, right?).
Im probably just rambling because my life has got boring and monotonous along with actual fear of American politics.
If there is reincarnation and you don’t remember a single thing from before, why bother it doesn’t matter.
If there would be reincarnation where you remembered your previous life, surely someone would have spilled the beans on this by now. I surely would contact any sort of family friends that i had previously.
Since both could be possible but 2. hasnt happened and 1 doesnt matter i would give this a no.
That’s my view too. even if reincarnation existed, it wouldn’t matter. If each life has no memory of the others, then each life is effectively a different person altogether, so from the POV of any one of those people, there is effectively no such thing as reincarnation.
Now suppose there’s some kind of ‘soul’ who the lives ‘belong to’ and will one day remember the lives, again – so what? They’re just memories. Those lives were each a separate person who no longer exists, and never knew the others or the soul.
I get that. Have you read The Egg by Andy Weir? If not, there’s a Kurzgesagt video that’s just that story with animation. I’d suggest it. It touches on this concept and kinda paints a more optimistic picture.
I don’t think I’d read it, but just looked it up and did. Or maybe I read it before and forgot–I’ve certainly heard that concept enough times, and many variations on it. The ultimate ego trip!
It doesn’t make sense biologically
If it was real and you could retain memories of past lives, I’m confident we’d have some evidence/proof.
If it exists without memory retention and its just some sort of “soul” concept then it really doesn’t matter since you won’t remember anything for it to be worth worrying about.
The fact that brain injuries can erase memories shows that memory isn’t going to continue when the brain no longer functions.
I have this little pet theory:
What if the memory is simply overwritten? A toddler, having not much experienced much in life may remember some stuff but as soon as new memories are formed the “old” memories are overwritten…
I mean, it at least would explain why my 2 year old has recently run an eerily convincing musket drill and bayonett charge with a stick while i am pretty sure he never has seen something like that on TV…
I was thinking you’d be “reincarnated” or reconstituted via Boltzmann’s brain scenario and you’d get your memories back after some crazy amount of time, but I get that could happen at an earlier stage in life. Sounds like the “universe was created 5 minutes ago along with all our memories” BS
It’s interesting having someone tell me to not worry about it.
Ever hear of Dr. Ian Stevenson?
Edit: Not sure why I’m being downvoted, dude looked into reincarnation and had hundreds of documented cases, Carl Sagan wanted people to look more into it
He emphasized that the information he collected was suggestive of reincarnation but “was not flawless and it certainly does not compel such a belief.”
If even the guy who had done the most research on it doesn’t believe in it, why should anyone else?
Don’t cherrypick qoutes.
Regardless he had to say that to give himself an out, there was concern that he’d be judged negatively for even suggesting reincarnation. Something proven by your own hostility.
When you see anyone disagreeing with you as hostility, you’ve clearly lost the thread.
Stop trying to twist his words in weird ways that benefit your stance, he very literally said we shouldn’t believe.
No, that’s silly and easily disproven. I merely believe I’m a facet of a benevolent fierce deity that supervenes on behalf of humanity
If it was a choice why would I ever wanna come back to this hell hole ?
I think this universe sucks, not to ignore human history. Lots of it is empty space apparently cosmic events can wipe you out with next to no warning, your made up of atoms and cells that can die and degrade, and we are stuck to this solar system because space isn’t empty it’s full of shit thats going to kill you
Which is why my headcanon for this universe is that we’re basically running rogue playthrough in this life. After you die, you’ll regain all your “soul” memories and will be given a choice to “replay” with another life and losing your memories “again” until you’ve reached a certain level of enlightenment and then you’ll “graduate” from our current level of existence.
Call me crazy but it helps me sleep at night, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I believe in reincarnation just as much as I believe any other theory of an afterlife - that is to say, I don’t.
We don’t know. Nobody knows what happens when we die. That’s ok, and I don’t feel the need to make up a story to explain away the uncertainty.
I think it’s likely that something happens when we die, but it could just as easily be nothingness, the end of existence. I only think it’s likely because I definitely believe that there is SO much that we don’t understand about the universe that it’s more probable than not that SOMETHING happens that we can’t currently fathom, perceive, or understand.
But, right now there’s no real evidence. So I don’t care, and I don’t worry about it.
To our best understanding, everything that lives will die. I don’t know what happens, it might be some form of heaven, it might be reincarnation, it might be transcendence, etc. However, I take comfort in the fact that it’s a shared experience, whatever it is. It’s natural. It’s part of the process.
The universe doesn’t owe us an explanation. Maybe we’ll figure it out, but we haven’t yet, and I’m fine with that.
The fact that your particular molecules will reconstruct into something else is 100% certain
Will you keep your particular consciousness in this process - unlikely
However if you drop off the definition of You as your current limited body and mind, then reincarnation is exactly what happens.
This is hard to articulate, but like molecules thar make up a person constantly come in and leave the body and when their in the body they “change states”. Technically while you’re alive you changing into other things constantly. Person you were a second ago could be considered dead since that was a specific combination of atoms that are lost.
It just ads to the mystery of consciousness
Eh I not sure if those atoms are you.
Every atom in your body isn’t the same atom you had when you were a kid, or even 7 years ago.
No.
Do you remember before being born? It’s the same after.
Can you prove that memory is a reliable way to determine reality without referencing memory?
We know memory is unreliable.
So reincarnation is not a thing but what’s to stop “you” from coming back as a new individual? After all, it happened at least once.
That’s where we get into technicalities and states of dying.
Ao while I was medically dead it wasn’t so dead that it was unrecoverable. Akin to a reset. Which, depending on the state you were in and the measures taken, could also have side effects and damages.
Anyhow biologically ‘you’ are still there. And leaving the body is it after a bit of decay. Like a complex system falling apart unrecoverably.
What about people who claim past life memories?
As is common amongst Buddhists
Related video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4BFX_qhhyk
I am aware. I personally think it’s a load of religious bull, but don’t directly want to offend anyone wanting to believe it.
I also know repatriation (I hope that’s the correctly translated term) which is proven to be planted suggested memories through that very process scientifically as far as I am aware at the current state of science.
I do love reading (eg the game is life) playing with these theories, though!
Proof of the evidence that reparitation is suggested?
Fair request.
I did some research into the topic a year ago due to my situation and came to the stated conclusion.
So I tried to find some scientific research again right now (in a limited time frame of like 10 to 20 minutes, on my mobile).
I first tried in English bot got a lot of hits regarding companies and since my native language is not English I don’t know what that word means in relation to companies and also didn’t want to waste time on that.
So I tried it in German and was flooded by hits which offer that ad a service and as such of course tell you how successful it is. Obviously.
I was not able to find the research I remember within that time, I am sorry.
However in any case you’d be free to believe whatever anyway.
The point of the information I read was however that people coming out of the procedure (sometimes, possibly also accidentally) get memories planted in a well known psychological way and it is a highly untrustworthy procedure.
So that’s why I didn’t do it. I have enough to cope with and don’t need additional fictional issues added to that 😁
And they found that all this does is create false memories?
Edit: Oh you meant the hypnosis does. Yeah not sure why he recommended that part before meditation
Indeed. So the brain would create memories from context.
And we’re 100% on this?
Yeah I can forgot random days of my life so I don’t remember those days. I get the perspective I’m just illustrating a point
If you want to play with that thought in a horrible way you might want to have a look at the episode white Christmas from black mirror.
I think conclusively stating that is a bit much, we don’t know shit about how consciousness works, do how can we know what happens if it ends?
I died and came back and there was nothing, that concludes it for me. Ymmv, of course.
Are you sure? Like what do you mean nothing? Like it all went to black? How do you know you just don’t remember it?
(in order of questions)
Yes I am. Well, like dreamless time-skip sleeping or before being born, nothing. No not even going to black just not and nothing being there, movie cut.
And lastly, I can’t, true. It could also be being influenced by the cocktail of medication you get in that situation which by the way has created a lot of stories to tell afterwards (trips) but not from the time of dying.
NDEs are probably not drug induced… probably
I like to compare it to electronics (since our brain also runs on/with electricity): unplug old electronics and have a look what’s being displayed while the memory and visuals lose their power. 😁
But after that, it’s gone.
Why would you think that being born is the same as dying?
(hint: it isn’t the same at all)
Not existing before and after is technically the same, please provide any scientific article of it being otherwise, I’m open to that.
One could argue even the development arc of humans is backwards towards the end. The process of dying is not the same as being born, if you mean that.
What kind of scientist are you?
Irrelevant to the case, but as it scientist concepts, research, analysis, deduction and proof is a standard part of my work.
Its typical however to instead answer with proof for a hypothesis to try to slander the opponent, especially nowadays. So there you go.
Luckily I do this conversation for fun and trying to learn more, since this is the way as humans we can grow.
So you tell me. What’s your experience from your last death.
Anyone who says they know what happens when you die is trying to grift you. No one knows and we all find out one day, no point in dwelling on it.
The amount of effort people put into saying “Maaaybe. We really don’t know,” is just crazy to me. No, because it’s nonsense.
To be honest, the only answer i have to say is: “we’ll see”. Wheter it’s nothing or not, the second option would imply that there is effectively something beyond what we know about the universe.
What even is the soul? YOU from now think very different than YOU from ten years ago. Can we say that those two people are the same? Not really. Yet you share common memories with this early you, who doesn’t exist anynore. Is it technically correct in this point of view to say that you are the reincarnation of you from ten years ago?
If someone in the far future were to think like you, to remember exact memories from yours, would act the same way you would act in the same situation, it would not we wrong to say they are your reincarnation, no?
Again i’m just supposing.
No.
Enjoy the ride.
Suppose reincarnation was real. But no one has any memory or awareness of a past life. So then what connection does said past life even have to you? How can any supposed past 'you’s really be considered the same you?
But no one has any memory or awareness of a past life.
Yes, that’s how the religion of reincarnation (sorry, I forgot which religion it is) has been taught in school to us westerners.
But with that condition the whole thing is not provable and not deniable, and makes no sense in general, because it remains purely a theory far away from all normal life.
In my scenario it would be “consciousness” whatever that is. I could imagine myself with different set of memories or alternate timeline where a different set of events happened. I don’t have any evidence that those scenarios exist, but it would paint a picture that I could be a different person or even a different living continue being.
But yeah if I did have a past life it’s totally lost to me.
But if this other consciousness has no continuity or connection to the consciousness that is currently ‘you’, how can it be said to be you?
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What do you mean by causal connection?
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That would imply they don’t believe in rebirth. But they do though?
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i too am a long time lay practictioner of tibetan buddhsm, That is the real answer.
And to add, The Buddhists themselves don’t really focus on the reincarnation aspect as much as one would think, its only ever really something that comes up incidentally like when enough connections about something come together in the right ways to warrant the question that maybe a past life is returning.
A reincarnated someone would be similar to someone who by their entirety of their atoms to their thoughts, seems to be like this other collection of thoughts and atoms.
Like the process of identifying the dalai lama is basically for the people searching to hone in on the schema of a dalai lama through any way they can and then when someone matches it they do their tests which are essentially to check if their actions are similar to that of the previous ones.
The way in which memory of psst lives works is much like lucid dreaming upon your death bed, you go to sleep with awareness of the changing reality and then the dream you end up in preferably made with an intentional choice becomes one solid line of remembrance which leads to kids who remember their past lives directly.
I have no idea what you said
It means express yourself without a damaging hindrance
This may be a problem created by the vagueness of language. We don’t yet know how consciousness works out what it even is, so we can’t assume that it functions independently of your perceptions, memories, and thoughts. It’s a bit like that chestnut about Star Trek transporters, does it kill you and recreate you somewhere else?
Is consciousness merely a map of reality in a constant process of adjusting itself, or is there something there that exists separate from everything that makes us ourselves?
I spend some time thinking about it. I’ve always been by turns impressed with consciousness and very annoyed with its limitations.
Yeeeeah, all due respect to believers, but we’re squishy wet computers riding squishy wet stilts and when we get turned off we just sort of fizzle out.
There’s some poetry to only having one go at it, but I’m not gonna stand here and say a sense of humanism makes your hardcoded fear of death subside. I get why humans come up with coping mechanisms where they get to live forever in some form that isn’t having their atoms repurposed as fertilizer and space dust.
Not in the traditional sense, but I have a pet theory about the continuation of consciousness.
You can only experience being, not not-being, so even if your consciousness went dark for a million years before being “reincarnated,” there would be no gap from the perspective of your subjective experience. You can only go from having one experience to having another. Nothingness can’t be experienced.
Makes me think about going into a coma from a car accident. Your consciousness could be out for however long, then you make a weird fantasy and regain consciousness and start a journey to fill recovery. It would be good to have a healthy attitude/mindset imprinted onto yourself in that scenario.
