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The reason not to use pencils in Space wasn’t that Pencil are inflamable, the main reason was the graphit dust produced by Pencils, which because of the lack of gravity, enter floating in the electronic, causing short circuits as main risk.
That is something I found weird, too. Inflammable and flammable mean the same thing!
Technically, I think they’re different. Flammable means that it can be lit on fire, like wood or something. Whereas inflammable means it can catch fire on its own, like gas, for example.
Edit: after some googling, it appears that my source was shit and should be disregarded. They do indeed appear to be synonyms. And also, I was thinking of gasoline. I think I was thinking of the “gas pedal” and that threw me off.
Synonyms, true synonyms. No real difference between them (except don’t use inflammable in safety situations, for above reasons)
Credit to you for the self-correction though
saying that “gas” is able to catch fire on its own is stretching it :) A gas mix typically still needs a spark, unlike: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergolic_propellant <- that stuff can “catch fire” on its own. But even there - it needs to be mixed, so technically, one component requires the other to ignite.
It makes more sense if you think of it as enflammable. Indent and indebted at examples of this “in-” prefix. https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/flammable-or-inflammable
If you want to keep things crystal clear, choose flammable when you are referring to something that catches fire and burns easily, and use the relatively recent nonflammable when referring to something that doesn’t catch fire and burn easily. Inflammable is just likely to enflame confusion.
The people at Merriam are alright 👌
Flammable isn’t a word.
Just Americans got confused by it so it became a word.
So then it is a word
A word made for stupid people, yes.
Probably not great for eyes or noses or filtration systems either
Twist: you’re the filtration system.
This is the most upvotes I think I have ever seen on a comment here.
and thin paper shavings = space kindling. the entire argument is fucking dumb.
perhaps the sovs gnawed their pencils sharp and consumed all the graphite fragments and shavings lol. good lil soviet space beavers
If I remember correctly, the Soviet engines were a lot harder to short out, so pencils weren’t as big a problem in their spacecraft.
the Soviet engines were a lot harder to short out,
bwahaha this is idiotic. anyone familiar with the long litany of rocket failures out of baiknor knows their engines weren’t ‘harder to short out’ whatever silly shit you mean with it.
short out what? the alternator? bwahahahahaahahahaha
short out the fuse box? dear god, I’m dying here
Genuine question. why did you choose to use “inflammable” instead of “flammable”?
Inflame was the original word for ‘to ignite’ - to set aflame, to set on fire. We still see if in metaphor, ‘inflammatory argument’ or ‘inflamed passion’, for example.
So an inflammable object was one you can inflame (or enflame). The word ‘flammable’ came about later, probably to reduce confusion for people who thought it mean ‘un-flameable’.
These days we use flammable on labels for safety reasons, but inflame is still peppered throughout language in metaphor and medicine, and both are correct.
inflammation, inflamed, inflammable
inflammable = easily ignited
Also a broken bit of lead could easily float into someone’s eye or get aspirated.
There is no way either side used lead pencils. Saying lead is in pencils is a very outdated thing, it’s all graphite these days.
it hasn’t been graphite for while now either….
Chalk isn’t chalk?
Regular chalk is calcium carbonate. Crayola’s website says their sidewalk chalk uses calcium sulfate (gypsum as an ingredient in plaster of paris).
So they’re both calcium salts.
Also you DON’T FUCKING WANT GRAPHITE DUST FLOATING AROUND IN ZERO G
Why not? I’m not well versed in the theme. Would it be flammable?
edit: just saw another post mentioning this: lack of gravity, enter floating in the electronic, causing short circuits as main risk.
The theme is to pretend recently-learned information was available half a century ago, and also to ignorantly inflate its importance. It turns out exposure to graphite dust in large concentrations can cause respiratory problems (like any kind of dust), but the amount of graphite emitted into the air by pencil use is insignificant, even in zero gravity.
Also your body doesn’t do a good job of breaking it down either. Id imagine that in your lungs would suck.
I have a piece of graphite in my leg from 7th grade still. I’m 33.
I have a graphite stain in my palm from 8th grade and I’m 40.
Left handed or did you get stabbed too?
Got stabbed by a friend at lunch.
For decades these pens have been brought up to criticize wasteful spending, inaccurately. Fisher Price didn’t even develop the pens for NASA, they were just a sales gimmick, and NASA didn’t spend thousands of dollars each on them, they just bought them. Space flight was getting a lot of publicity back then, so products that related themselves to space were popular, like Space Food Sticks - tootsie-rollish snacks supposedly full of protein and nourishment. To me they tasted too much like raw flour. “Energy” of course was a euphemism for sugar.
Besides that, NASA wasn’t the one that funded the research behind the pen, they bought the completed pens. The expenses for the research were funded by Fisher
“Do me a personal favour. Take the pen!”
Plus, inhaling graphite dust since it doesn’t fall doesn’t sound fun.
Hardly anything is less problematic than graphite. No idea why you think that is an issue.
You’re probably thinking “it’s just carbon, nbd”, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for your lungs:
https://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0893.htm
“Repeated or prolonged inhalation of dusts may cause effects on the lungs. This may result in graphite pneumoconiosis”
I mean water is toxic if you drink too much. The amount of dust of a pencil is negligible… now graphite from pencil production? Thats more concerning.
“I mean, water is toxic if you drink too much”
Translation: “my argument is lazy and not really well thought out, I’m not going to even acknowledge your point, I’m just gonna double down”
You want a long drawn out answer? Ok then. Simple fact, our world is naturally dirty, just go outside in spring and you’ll breathe in untold amount of pollen everyday. Yet our lungs cope. How? By excreting mocus and its cilia to carry out foreign material out. However, if an excess amount of foreign material overwhlems the protections the lungs offers, then problems occurs. That of course ignores materials that are toxic, radioactive, or carcinogenic. So unless you are using a pencil made from pure carbon-14… its harmless.
If you wanted clarification or a ELI5, next time just ask instead of being passive agressive.
Think of how revolutionary crayola twistables would have been for NASA?
So they could have infinite chunks of broken crayan floating around them. I can never not break those no matter how lite I use rhem
You’re the kid I stopped sharing my colours with.
Oh shit wassup
The air filters would capture it eventually. It’s not like the ISS has dead air.
You’re assuming I wouldn’t try to eat them all like floating packman
Well, then the problem would be solved anyways!
Fair enough. But I just needed someone else to have the imagery I had.
NASA used crayons before those space pens, and iirc the pens were available for a while before they tried them
NASA used crayons before those space pens, and iirc the pens were available for a while before they tried them
this is partially correct; the missing pertinent bit - there was a crayon shortage due to the influx of marines recruited for the vietnam war (mmm crayola), forcing NASA to seek alternatives.
I have one on my keychain, highly recommend
I got big into pens for a bit before settling on my edc one-size-fits-most pen. During my travels, I saw that the Fisher Space pens are still highly regarded as great writers even for us grounded folk. Yeah, there’s better, but for the size and build quality they’re great options. I went with the Ti Arto by Big Idea Design instead. Just so I could use basically any pen cartridges (except cheap bic roller ball).
Huh, the Arto used to be 70usd. I’d say not worth anymore. I got the black one and the paint has already chipped plus the clip is not titanium unless you buy an expensive “premium” clip.
also, fucking pencil shavings?
pencil shavings contain graphite (great for getting into shit and shorting shit out) and thin paper (think, kindling)
did the russians gnaw the fucking things sharp? no? idiots…
Grease pencil, you pull a tab and the things unrolls.
side note, mechanical grease pencils are literally some of the best goddamn marking tools ever invented by humans, and the fact that we’ve moved away from them as a standard in favor of sharpie-style disposible markers is APPALLING.
there’s myriad “industrial” markers you can buy, which are generally especially well suited to one specific inclement situation. low temp markers won’t freeze, but will often bleed and feather. oil-proof markers will write on a slippery surface, but will smear and take ages to dry proper (RIP lefties). paint markers can write on anything, but only as long as the surface doesn’t immediately destroy your nib and prevent future wicking.
grease pencils (quality ones at least) go down like a crayon, stick to ANYTHING, and generally won’t smear at all. obviously no one should be writing their thesis with one, but they can do pretty much everything we use permanent markers for. they’re also cheaper and produce far less waste.
as far as i can tell the biggest downside is there’s a smaller profit margin for the manufacturers.
I love my grease pencils and use them for writing kitchen leftover contents on glass and ceramic dishes. This works like a dream when the dish is warm and just fine when the dish is room temperature.
However, it’s nearly impossible to write on cold or frozen dishes. In my old lab when was young and stupid, I’d hold the spot I wanted to write on over a flame for a few seconds (lucky I never exploded a liter of expensive research water and glass on myself, or worse). Now I do my best with vigorously rubbing the spot with a kitchen towel for a few seconds, but still usually get a barely readable mark.
Aside from figuring out how to etch those little white squares that lab glassware has onto my kitchen dishes, anyone have any ideas around this?
also you can etch those lil white squares surprisingly easily with commercially available glass etching creams, my mom used to fuck around with em a lot in like the 90’s i think.
oh god oh fuck what have you done do you understand how many niche DIY toolkits I have now I’m forced to add another
edit: oh wait it’s just one bottle. what’s one more bottle of engineering goo? 🫠
maybe a difference in the actual composition of the grease? i was writing on polished stainless pots at below freezing temps, but i was ALSO using new-old-stock refills bc the current standard size is it’s own proprietary can of worms lol
Huh. Never occurred to me they likely come in different compositions for different uses.
Im a fan of grease pencils yeah, especially for marking on windows. I’m a mechanic and sometimes I just do the diag notes on the cars Windows or if laziness.
nice alternative, and that’d make great sense except… now you have a bunch of long strings of grease covered paper floating about the cabin.
so no. no thanks.
I’m pretty sure astronauts are trained on the usage of garbage receptacles.
No I mean that’s literally what they were using not graphite.
having used grease pencils before, no thanks, due to the remainder of greasy paper you unwind as you use it.
They aren’t suggesting using a grease pencil as a better alternative to a graphite pencil, they are saying that the Russian cosmonauts used grease pencils before moving to a pressurized pen.
You don’t need to say “no thanks” to it, no one is suggesting using it. The first comment was ambiguous, but your response to this one is just baffling.
no thanks.
Apollo 1 resulted in a lot of improvements regarding fire safety.
People drag the Soviets for being reckless with the lives of their crews, but forget that the USA melted three men in a training exercise.
at least those three were known, acknowledged and not covered in secrecy.
we really have no idea how many the sov’s lost in their rush to stay ahead / catch up to the moon landings. truly, there’s no way to fucking know, even the cosmonauts themselves never knew the total extent.
maybe they both deserve to be dragged a bit eh? pfft
I’ve owned a fair few Fisher Space Pens throughout the years. It’s an interesting bit of space memorabilia that’s functional and affordable. It’s an impressive bit of engineering.
As a space nerd, I love the pen. As a pen guy…. There’s better options. The cartridge just doesn’t write as smooth as I like, nor is it a really bold, saturated line. For daily actual writing use, I use a Lamy Safari rollerball or a Pilot B2P.
They’re small, but when you open them up, they’re full-sized. It fits in my knockoff Ridge wallet. I buy blue cartridges because I hate signing stuff in black.
10/10 for me, but it’s all about utility for me.
Rite In The Rain pens are awesome too. Ultralight for backpacking.
Plus pressurized pens are useful in more than just zero-g. I used to use one along with a waterproof note pad for note taking in the field. They’re also not prohibitively expensive, although the ones from Fisher itself carry a pretty huge brand name markup, other companies sell them for a couple bucks each.
Wait…waterproof notepad?! How does a notepad hold the moisture from the pen? Or is this like a grease marker situation?
the paper doesnt necessarily need to absorb the ink, the ink just needs to dry on the surface is such a way that it adheres well enough it doesn’t rub off, or stay wet.
So really, you want a high adhesion, quick drying ink, which would basically let you write on any surface it’ll stick to.
idk how it works but it does. I’ve been using Rite in the Rain for years but there are others too if you search it up.
Just guessing here but I imagine the ink doesn’t contain any water, so an otherwise absorbent material that is treated with a hydrophobic coating would probably work for that.
They’re also great to bust open when scared, to make a quick getaway. Making zoidberg noises as you scuttle away is optional, but recommended.
Empires wasting resources on nonflammable space pens while the whole planet burns.
Technically correct. i guess, money better spent elsewhere
![[Partially incorrect, see comments.] Pens in Space](https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/466a2af6-4d33-4f93-aa6c-eaaf49ab899f.jpeg){kind=link}